Thread: Brown, Whitman heatedly debate illegal immigration

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/polit ... 7097.story

Brown, Whitman heatedly debate illegal immigration
The California gubernatorial candidates tangle in a blistering dispute over Whitman's employment of an illegal immigrant housekeeper as they meet for a Spanish-language debate.

Reporting from Fresno — Gubernatorial candidates Meg Whitman and Jerry Brown tangled Saturday over Whitman's employment of an illegal immigrant housekeeper, exchanging blistering jabs as they met for their second televised debate.

The most direct confrontation between the two candidates of the election season came when the moderator asked Whitman about revelations earlier this week that she employed Nicandra Diaz Santillan, whom she fired in 2009 after nine years. Whitman has denied knowing that Diaz Santillan was undocumented until shortly before she was dismissed.

Whitman turned to face Brown and accused him of being behind Diaz Santillan's emergence.



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"Jerry, you should be ashamed," Whitman said. "You and your surrogates put her deportation at risk. You put her out there. You should be ashamed for sacrificing Nicky Diaz on the altar of your political ambitions."

Brown denied involvement and countered that Whitman has repeatedly called for employers to be held responsible for their hires. He said she was failing to take responsibility for her actions.

"Don't run for governor if you can't stand up on your own two feet and say, 'Hey, I made a mistake, I'm sorry, let's go on from here,' " he said. "You have blamed her, blamed me, blamed the left, blamed the unions, but you don't take accountability."

The 60-minute debate, held on the Cal State Fresno campus, was much more confrontational and their accusations much more personal than their first meeting, which took place Tuesday night at UC Davis.

Saturday's debate was filmed midday, with questions posed in Spanish and simultaneously translated for the candidates. It was aired later, online and on Univision stations, after Spanish voiceovers were added to the candidate responses.

The meeting was plagued by technical difficulties. Immediately after the tense exchange about the housekeeper, the translation system stopped working, and both candidates were taken off stage for half an hour and placed in separate holding areas.

Univision reaches millions of Latino households across the nation, and the fact that the candidates agreed to hold one of their three debates on the network showed the electoral importance of Latino voters. Latinos make up roughly one-fifth of the electorate in California, and Whitman has been aggressively courting them to help her overcome the Democrats' double-digit voter registration advantage.

"I cannot win the governor's race without the Latino vote," she said during the debate.

As in their first debate, Whitman hewed tightly to her campaign stump speech and answered questions about a wide variety of topics by returning repeatedly to her three priorities — creating jobs, reducing government spending and fixing the kindergarten-through-12th-grade school system.

Brown frequently touted his family legacy — his father served two terms as governor — and his own record as governor, Oakland mayor and the state's current attorney general. He was more disciplined than in the last debate, in which he cracked jokes and peppered his statements with salty language.

Education, unemployment and the water shortage in the Central Valley played prominent roles in the clash, but the quandary about how to deal with the millions of illegal immigrants living in the United States dominated much of the debate.

Brown accused Whitman of saying "one thing in Spanish, one thing in English" regarding government benefits for illegal immigrants. He noted that she has said she would have opposed Proposition 187, a 1994 ballot measure that would have denied taxpayer benefits for illegal immigrants, but ran radio ads during the primary that said those in the country illegally should not receive such benefits.

"This is a question about talking out of both sides of her mouth," he said.

Whitman said Brown was being disingenuous.

"I have been entirely consistent on my immigration stance from Day One of this campaign," she said.

Whitman was repeatedly pressed on whether, once the border is secured, she would allow a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants here; she refused to answer and instead repeated her campaign platform of securing the border and creating a temporary guest worker program.

Her stance led to an awkward encounter when a Cal State Fresno student in the audience told the candidates that she is about to graduate with honors but won't be able to find work because she is undocumented. She asked both candidates their positions on the DREAM Act, which would provide an opportunity for citizenship for some illegal immigrants who arrived in the United States as children, complete some college or military service and meet other requirements.

Brown said he would support the measure, and then added that his opponent does not think undocumented students should be allowed to enroll in state colleges.

"She wants to kick you out of this school because you are not documented and that is wrong, morally and humanly," Brown said.



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Whitman said such a move is necessary because legal California residents were losing access to state colleges. She has said she would allow undocumented students to attend taxpayer-sponsored schools until 12th grade, but no further.

"I am so pleased by your success," she said, before noting that budget cuts have limited university enrollment. "I don't think it's fair to bar and eliminate the ability of California citizens to attend higher university and favor undocumenteds."

Brown, whose positions on legalizing undocumented citizens are more in line with many Latino voters, was pressed about his opposition to giving drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants and his opposition to sanctuary cities, which protect undocumented residents against some forms of federal immigration intervention. He reiterated his opposition, and then ridiculed Whitman's proposal to create a guest worker program.

"You don't just bring in semi-serfs and say do our dirty work and then we're finished with you, like an orange — you just throw them away, that's after you've squeezed them," he said. "That's not right."

Most of the debate was serious, but the one light moment occurred when the moderator asked each candidate to name three qualities in their rival that would make him or her a good governor.

"What shall I say?" Brown asked. "She's smart. And she's pretty tough, I can tell you that because I've been campaigning against her for several months. And she's had a pretty interesting set of job experiences."

He added, "Can I tell you about all my qualities?"

Whitman jumped in to list Brown's traits: "Well, I think he cares a great deal about California. He has had a long career in public service. And I really like his choice of wife. I'm a big fan of Anne Gust," she said, before turning the answer to herself.

"So what do I bring to this table?" Whitman said, and then spoke about her credentials for the next minute and a half, as Brown stood by silently, looking peeved.

seema.mehta@latimes.com

michael.mishak@latimes.com
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Copyright © 2010, Los Angeles Times


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Comments (271)Add / View comments | Discussion FAQ
Catherine F at 7:36 PM October 02, 2010
IF YOU LOVE YOUR STATE BEING BROKE, 20 BILLION IN DEBT, 10.5 BILLION IS TO PAY FOR ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS THEN VOTE BROWN IN AGAIN. IF YOU LIKE CALIFORNIA CUTTING OFF WATER FOR HUMANS INSTEAD OF FOR RODENTS - VOTE FOR BROWN AGAIN



IF YOU LIKE YOUR MAIN LANGUAGE AS SPANISH AND ILLEGAL INVADER GANGS RUNNING WILD THEN VOTE FOR BROWN AGAIN



AND FINALLY IF YOU LIKE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT RATE OF 15%, THEN PUT BROWN IN AGAIN.



YOU PEOPLE IN CALIFORNIA WHO VOTE TO KEEP THE SAME CRUD IN OFFICE THAT LOVE YOU DUMB, VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATS AGAIN.............



BUT AMERICA IS BROKE AND CANNOT SAVE YOU FROM YOURSELVES ANYMORE............YOUR MUNICIPAL BONDS WILL FAIL, YOUR COPS WILL BE FIRED, THE PRISONS WILL EMPTY OUT AND YOUR PENSION PLANS ARE EMPTY AND AMERICA IS NOT GOING TO SAVE YOU AGAIN IF YOU RE-ELECT THESE LIBERALS THAT ARE INCOMPETENT...............AND ARNIE IS A RHINO AND MORE LIBERAL THAN MOST CONSERVATIVES........
wbutterman at 7:36 PM October 02, 2010
Republicans are a tiny minority in the Golden State, and lets face it, most of them are simply racists that fail to understand the California economic engine. Can you imagine what the megafarms of the central valley would do without hispanic workers? The food would rot on the ground, and lots of very agribusiness executives would be very angry.




Meg has no understanding how 99% of Californians live or work, and why would she? Her only experience is the draconian dictatorship of her tenure at Ebay - a tenure that nearly ruined a once profitable company.




I hope her concession speech is somewhat dignified. I doubt she has any digity left in her gassy, bloated soul.
Common.Sense at 7:35 PM October 02, 2010
Meg thought her blame Jerry act that she did on Fox News was going to work for her at the debate. Maybe she shouldn't practice political strategy with stooges of her own party. Brown chewed her up and spit her out. I guess Brown doesn't like pork meat.

So the debate was really about which one, Meg Whitman or Jerry Brown, could give the Latinos the most.

And Meg Whitman was talking about what a jerk Jerry Brown was for not hiding the fact (like Meg did once she found out and fired her, but did not turn her in) that her maid is a criminal illegal alien who falsified her identity to the agency who hired her out, and also lied to her employer, and also lied to our government....Yessiree, Meg is just the kind-of governor we want running the state of California.

[...]"Jerry, you should be ashamed," Whitman said. "You and your surrogates put her deportation at risk. You put her out there. You should be ashamed for sacrificing Nicky Diaz on the altar of your political ambitions."[...]

Oh that's right Meg, he should have kept her illegal stolen identity hidden like you have done ever since you fired her......until someone 'outed' you! Or did you never know she was illegal....until after you fired her? Why did you fire her? Which is it? I am confused.

This is a little something Meg needs to think about.....
[...] The laws and punishments concerning aiding and abetting vary from state-to-state, but all states have laws against it. Just because you don’t participate in the commission of a crime doesn’t mean that you aren’t liable for your decision to assist the person who did commit the crime. Further, you can later be charged with obstruction of justice if you don’t admit your involvement to the police. [...] http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... l_law.html

So what do we Californian's do? As far as I see it is a lose, lose situation. Vote for Meg? Vote for Brown? or not vote?

Not voting is not an option.
Voting for Brown - Whatever spin you put on it, I seen him in office before - he is not an option.

That leaves Meg - Scary, but hey maybe we need someone who is not afraid of firing people. If I had my way I would fire California's whole government.

GoodOleDays points out that Meg didn't turn her maid in to be deported. Hey everyone in California knows ICE wouldn't have even acted on it. Also how many of us who are against illegal immigration doesn't know someone here illegaly that we care about and make an exception. Just proves to me Meg is human. I just wonder if this is going to color her feelings towards illegals.

Sorta like choosing between McCain or Hayworth! What a choice!

Originally Posted by MontereySherry

GoodOleDays points out that Meg didn't turn her maid in to be deported. Hey everyone in California knows ICE wouldn't have even acted on it. Also how many of us who are against illegal immigration doesn't know someone here illegaly that we care about and make an exception. Just proves to me Meg is human. I just wonder if this is going to color her feelings towards illegals.

No offense meant here, but we see this employer issue in two different lights.

My opinion is, if the government refuses to enforce our immigration laws...it then falls to the people to do their best to do what is right, and Meg Whitman did not do it and she still wants the republicans to vote for her.

IMO...
I can't possibly be a member of a border enforcement organization, and still feel free to say Meg Whitman gets a walk on this.

Meg Whitman wants to be the governor in charge of running this state, not to mention she is for legalizing millions of illegal aliens. I will not vote for her. The GOP has given me no choices, so I will not be voting Republican or Democrat.

If I excuse Meg Whitman just because she is a Republican and the lesser of two evils, then I had better not hold any other employers in California responsible for checking out their employees even after a red flag has been shown that something is fishy and not matching up with their papers. We are talking California here...the capital of illegal alien stolen SS cards!

I also don't like Meg Whitman because she thinks it is okay to kill unborn babies....but that is another issue.

IMO...If I excuse Meg Whitman who supports the legalization of illegal aliens who are stealing our jobs this very minute, and who employed one, even after a red flag was sent to her, I might as well stop fighting the fight and just go fishing. I guess the 'line in the sand' has finally been drawn for me.

This whole situation gets more and more nightmarish for California. Jerry Brown is a known nightmare, Meg is turning in to one. This really stinks!

GoodOleDays nobody is excusing Meg. As far as I am concerned the Jury is still out. I am strictly against illegal immigration but does that mean that I have to see everything black or white; no grey area. As far as I am concerned I would like to see every illegal deported, but does that mean I can't at the same time feel compassion or sympathy.

Originally Posted by MontereySherry

GoodOleDays nobody is excusing Meg. As far as I am concerned the Jury is still out. I am strictly against illegal immigration but does that mean that I have to see everything black or white; no grey area. As far as I am concerned I would like to see every illegal deported, but does that mean I can't at the same time feel compassion or sympathy.

Goodness no. I would never say that anyone should be without compassion or sympathy for whomever, or whatever they choose. That is none of my business.

As for myself, I am looking at a situation where my children are now suffering from the tsunami of illegal aliens coming into my state from all over the world. We are losing our way of life. That is where I am coming from.....And my sympathy and compassion is for my children and my neighbor's children. If I felt any other way, I could not continue to fight the battle.

I have no sympathy for Meg Whitman. She put herself out there as an example of who would make a good governor for California. So now she is being called on to answer some hard questions as to why she did not concern herself with an employee who is running around with stolen SS cards, and possibly lying to her employers while illegally taking jobs from our citizens who are begging for work to feed their families.

But that is how I see the picture. I am sure you see it differently, and there is nothing wrong with that. I respect how you feel. We just disagree on this particular issue. I am sure we do agree on many other issues.

Both Brown and Whitman can't be trusted, both are irrational and self-destructive. Their positions on the issue of illegals is at best nonsensical. This is what happens when you have a small group of people running the government for their own selfish interests. It's called an oligarchy.