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  1. #1
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Messy legal process could challenge Trump's mass deportation plan

    Messy legal process could challenge Trump's mass deportation plan

    By Kelley Beaucar Vlahos Published November 27, 2015

    Donald Trump has made some controversial campaign promises lately – including vows to monitor certain mosques, track Syrian refugees and bring back waterboarding – but the debate is still raging over perhaps his biggest-scale proposal: mass deportation of the country’s illegal immigrants.

    The plan remains short on specifics, yet the current state of the backlogged immigration enforcement system demonstrates just how difficult it could be. As it stands, deporting a relatively tiny fraction of the total illegal immigrant population has clogged U.S. immigration courts.

    According to TRAC (Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse), there are 459,219 cases pending, with most of them in California, Texas and New York. The vast majority are immigrants who either overstayed their permission to be here, or came into the country illegally. A smaller number involve criminal, terrorism or national security charges -- 25,561 as of September.

    “To say you could just go and pick up 11 million or 12 million individuals and in just a couple of years deport them is just illogical, it’s just not possible,” said Maurice Goldman, an immigration lawyer in Tucson, Ariz., which according to TRAC has over 1,000 pending cases in its immigration court. TRAC is a project by Syracuse University that compiles up-to-date federal law enforcement records.

    Politically speaking, Trump’s proposal continues to get mixed support, at a time when candidates and voters are focused largely on security issues in the wake of the Paris attacks.

    In a recent Fox News poll, 52 percent said they favor Trump’s idea of deporting illegal immigrants, while 40 percent opposed it. But when specifically asked how they felt about “identifying and deporting millions of immigrants who are living in the U.S. illegally,” just 41 percent called it a “smart idea” that should be “seriously considered.” Thirty percent called it “silly” and “impossible,” while 24 percent said the idea is “wrong and shouldn’t be done even if it were possible.”

    Trump may have mastered the art of the deal – but on the matter of mass deportation, the adage that politics is the art of the possible can’t be overlooked.

    The government still is deporting thousands -- according to the latest DHS data, the government deported 438,000, 418,000 and 387,000 in 2013, 2012, and 2011 respectively -- but each case typically takes a long time to process.

    Today, the average wait time for a case in the immigration court -- which can end in deportation -- is 643 days. In 2008, it was 438 days. Goldman, describing one of his own clients, a man who came to the U.S. illegally in 1992 and was brought before the court in 2010, said wait times can be much longer. It was five years before his client’s case was “administratively closed,” meaning he won’t be deported this time but his charge is still “pending.” He can be put back before a judge at any time.

    The backlogs, too, have been steadily rising since 1998, the first year represented in the TRAC assessment. At that time, during the Clinton administration, there was a backlog of 129,505 cases. In 2008, a year before President Obama took the Oval Office from President George W. Bush, there was a backlog of 186,108.

    Trump, though, has been resolute about not only building a U.S.-Mexico wall but the deportation plan. During the Nov. 10 presidential primary debate, Trump advocated mass deportations like those pursued by President Dwight Eisenhower, otherwise known as “Operation Wetback,” in 1954.

    According to historians, hundreds of thousands of people were removed under that operation, including Mexican-American citizens, who were forcibly rounded up and sent over the border to Mexico. The months-long federal operation has been described as inhumane and generally ineffective in stopping the number of Mexicans coming over the border.

    Still, Trump defends his plan, recently telling Fox News he would do it humanely.

    "I've heard it both ways. I've heard good reports, I've heard bad reports," Trump told "The O’Reilly Factor" earlier this month about the mass deportations under Eisenhower. "We would do it in a very humane way."

    Speaking with Fox News' Bret Baier, Trump dismissed the logistical concerns.

    "If we do this job right, there shouldn't be a big court situation. Nobody knows legal situations better than Trump," he said. "They have to go back."

    But critics say that while Trump could tweak federal regulations to streamline the process, he would have to change the law to pursue a strategy to avoid the immigration courts entirely. Currently, the government can fast-track deportations for violent criminals, but most immigrants, illegal and legal, have a constitutional right to due process as upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court.

    There’s where the trouble lies in mass deportation. “The immigration courts are so underfunded, and that is why there is such a terrible backlog,” said Wendy Feliz, spokeswoman for the American Immigration Council. “[Judge positions] go unfilled, and even if they were filled, they still wouldn’t be sufficient.”

    Doug Holtz-Eakin, president of the American Action Forum, a fiscally conservative policy group that assessed the cost of mass deportation in a study earlier this year, told FoxNews.com that sending 11 million people home would “harm the economy in ways it would normally not be harmed.”

    His group estimates it would cost upwards of $620 billion to apprehend, detain and deport every illegal immigrant. “We would need more courts, more detention facilities, more police -- it would change the climate of America.”

    “I am 100 percent sympathetic with those who do not like illegal immigration,” he said. “But what strategy you have for dealing with illegal immigrants is important. I’m not a fan of this one.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...l?intcmp=hpbt2
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Oh my goodness. State and local law enforcement can use their existing personnel to deport illegal aliens. Yes, there would need to be a "fast-track" court system that provides the due process which is a very simple matter of whether they a) are citizens, if no, then b) do you have your papers, if no, then c) deport. It doesn't take rocket scientists, it doesn't take months, it doesn't even take a lawyer, but if they want to pay one, then that's their problem, same as it is for anyone with a legal problem. It doesn't take much of anything really, because we already have more than enough state and local law enforcement officers who can do all the foot work. We have over 800,000 of these officers who are trained, equipped, paid and based on FBI statistics (1.5 arrests per officer per month) have more than ample time to arrest on average 2 illegal aliens a month for 11 months and 3 in the 12 month which means 800,000 x 2 = 1.6 million x 12 months = 19.2 million + 800,000 = 20 million illegal aliens deported in 12 months.

    http://www.justice.gov/eoir/office-o...igration-judge

    We have 250 immigration judges in 58 locations throughout the US.

    So if we have 250 judges and 1.6 million illegal aliens to process per month, then that's 6400 illegal aliens per Judge per month. That's 320 per day if 20 work days a month. That's 40 illegal aliens per hour if an 8 hour work day. Really, this is not a problem. That's about 1 every minute. How long does it take for police to say, we have illegal alien XXXXX, in our country illegally, verified not a citizen by birth, not a citizen by naturalization, expired visa not renewed or no papers at all, and for the Judge to ask the person "do you have any evidence to prove you're a legal citizen by birth, a citizen by naturalization, have a renewed visa or immigration papers?" Less than a minute.

    And yes, these judges are paid well and can work 10 hour days or go have supper and come back and hold night court, and they can also work on Saturdays and Sundays to clear any backlog. The key is not to distract the court from the simple task it has and not listen to wails, whines, sob stories and so forth. Keep it simple, stupid. Their task is simply to determine if you are in the country illegally or not. All the facts will already be in hand from the state and local police officers, verified by ICE or E-verify. These will be undisputed facts by the time of the hearing, so deportation is ordered, and off they go.

    They should also process the families together as a unit which will reduce the number of hearings and avoid any confusion of who belongs to whom so the families can be unified and deported unified including all children whether born here or not, no child left behind simply because they were born here, because custody of minor children will remain with their parents, none of this utter nonsense of family services kidnapping children of illegal aliens. Oh my God, what morons would come up with something like this to begin with? Only very stupid people employed in our inept government.

    You put state and local law enforcement on this, and this problem is solved. We don't care if these Federal Immigration Judges have to burn some extra work time to do their jobs. They've been cheating the system for years collecting salaries for not doing their job, so it's going to be PAY BACK TIME! Oh, and if you're an "immigration lawyer", well, you need to go back to school and freshen up on a different area of law or find a new line of work altogether, because this disaster will soon come to an end and there will be no need for your services, because we will pass a 10 to 20 Year Moratorium on All Immigration to accompany this endeavor.

    Like Trump said, "it's just management".

    Last edited by Judy; 11-29-2015 at 04:56 AM.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member southBronx's Avatar
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    you right judy
    it call management what part don't they all under stand i like to know what part of the class room did they all site at they just don't listen
    ( IT call Management)

  4. #4
    Senior Member southBronx's Avatar
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    judy
    I was told in wilkes barra Pa they call this the soup kitchen they said they had 40 Turkey & 1,000 people to feed & some live under the bridge & some live in the wood's it sad & obama want us to help other country he can go to hell

  5. #5
    Administrator ALIPAC's Avatar
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    Kelley Beaucar and Fox News need to stop trying to smear Donald Trump and his plan to enforce existing laws which require illegals to be deported. A majority of our citizens and a majority of members of Congress support deportation for all illegals and that is why they voted to pass such laws!

    This article smearing Trump and his deportation plan is a bunch of bunk! It is so full of holes im not even going to take time to address them all.

    But this one point is so telling!

    Trump, though, has been resolute about not only building a U.S.-Mexico wall but the deportation plan. During the Nov. 10 presidential primary debate, Trump advocated mass deportations like those pursued by President Dwight Eisenhower, otherwise known as “Operation Wetback,” in 1954.

    According to historians, hundreds of thousands of people were removed under that operation, including Mexican-American citizens, who were forcibly rounded up and sent over the border to Mexico. The months-long federal operation has been described as inhumane and generally ineffective in stopping the number of Mexicans coming over the border.
    Notice how no names of these alleged "historians" are mentioned in this fictional opinion statement above? That is because this claim is bull crap! Operations Wetback deported almost 1 million illegal aliens, quick, efficiently, cost effectively, and humanely. Another 1-2 million illegals left on their own in response to the operation so a total of 2-3 million illegals were removed.

    Operation Wetback did not just stop illegal border crossings, the operations reversed the flow of illegals and kept illegal immigration into America settled down for the next two decades until the late 70's!

    Operation Wetback was a great success!

    W
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Yes it was, W! A huge success. And if there were a few mistakes along the way, that's often an issue with enforcing all of our laws, and in those days authorities had much more limited databases than what we have today to ensure such mistakes do not occur. Today, the chances of an actual citizen of any origin or descent are nil as in zero.
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    Senior Member grandmasmad's Avatar
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    Enforce the existing laws already on the books......use e-verify to ensure only CITIZENS get Food Stamps and Welfare.....kick non-citizens out of subsidized housing......They will depart on their own if they can't get free food and housing.....JUST ENFORCE THE EXISTING LAWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The difference between an immigrant and an illegal alien is the equivalent of the difference between a burglar and a houseguest. Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandmasmad View Post
    Enforce the existing laws already on the books......use e-verify to ensure only CITIZENS get Food Stamps and Welfare.....kick non-citizens out of subsidized housing......They will depart on their own if they can't get free food and housing.....JUST ENFORCE THE EXISTING LAWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    It will definitely reduce the number who have to be deported by authorities. Great point grandmasmad!
    A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
    Save America, Deport Congress! - Judy

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  9. #9
    Senior Member ReformUSA2012's Avatar
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    Per law illegal aliens convicted of any felony have NO right to a hearing and can be immediately deported by a simple signature of the local INS Official. This means pull out the rubber stamp signature and ANY illegal alien with a felony conviction can be immediately deported. Further illegal aliens who can not prove more then 2 years residency in the US w/o any criminal convictions and w/o being a burden to the welfare system can also be immediately deported. The law is written that the burden of proof is on the illegal alien. As they are *living in the shadows* and using stolen identities, fake documents, and many a burden on society by using or getting welfare assistance for their families can also be immediately deported. Those that can prove will usually be proving as well a felony charge which can then be used to force a deportation acceptance. Further per the same law illegal aliens have NO right to a public attorney yet have the right to hire an attorney on their own which is the due process benefit of illegal aliens being deported a civil issue as no *punishment* is being inferred. Its kind of like telling a shoplifter to return the stolen goods and calling it even which is actually doing them a favor.

    Yet the current law mostly in IIRIRA of 1996 signed by Clinton.

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