Thread: Award Winning Reporter: US has Satellite Images that Show Ukrainian Troops Shoot Down

Award Winning Reporter: US has Satellite Images that Show Ukrainian Troops Shoot Down MH17 – State Dept: Our Evidence is based on Social Media and YouTube Videos

Tim Brown 8 hours ago
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Robert Parry, award winning former Associated Press reporter and author of America's Stolen Narrative: From Washington and Madison to Nixon, Reagan and the Bushes to Obama, recently reported on his blog that while media outlets are pointing the finger at either Ukrainian rebels or the Russians for the downing of Flight MH17, his source says that the US is in possession of satellite imagery that indicates that the Ukrainian government itself may be to blame. On Tuesday, the Obama State Department was challenged by an AP reporter to provide "forensic evidence" that Russian-backed rebels were to blame for the downed jet. Spokesperson Marie Harf said they basically were relying on YouTube videos and social media posts… no, really.

According to Parry:

What I've been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.

The source said CIA analysts were still not ruling out the possibility that the troops were actually eastern Ukrainian rebels in similar uniforms but the initial assessment was that the troops were Ukrainian soldiers. There also was the suggestion that the soldiers involved were undisciplined and possibly drunk, since the imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site, the source said.

AP reporter Matt Lee engaged US State Department Deputy spokesperson Marie Harf in back and forth that ultimately led to Harf admitting, "we know, we saw in social media afterwards….of the pro-Russian separatists bragging about shooting down an aircraft."



"How is it exactly that you know it was fired from separatist held territory?" asked Lee.
Harf responded that the evidence is based on "communications posted on YouTube by the Ukrainian government."

Lee asked, "Is there anything other… than social media?"

While Harf did mention an assessment, she continued her talking points by blaming the Ukrainian rebels due to social media and YouTube videos.

"All you're willing to present publicly what backs up your version of the story, which may well be the correct version of the story?" Lee asked.

"May well be," said Harf.

"I haven't seen your evidence that shows that the missile was launched from rebel held territory," Lee added. "The only thing you're willing to put out publicly is the social media accounts."

Harf then proceeded to chastise those that believe their assessment is superior to the State Department's, which is based on social media posts, is illogical. However, Lee would have none of it and retorted that "evidence" could not stand the scrutiny of an international investigation.

"The Russians have said we've put out our radar images which show this Ukrainian plane near at least, why don't you put out your…," Lee said before Harf began to speak over him.

My guess is that Matt Lee won't be in the State Department press meetings much longer. He's exposing the ridiculousness of a federal agency that is relying on social media and YouTube videos more than they are actual intelligence to determine the cause of the downing of Flight MH17.

It's true that there has been a lot of finger pointing regarding who shot down the Malaysian Airlines flight. However, this is always an issue when it comes to getting to the truth with our federal govenrment, isnt' it? Just like the assassination of JFK, 9/11 and other tragedies, our government claims "national security" as the mantra for keeping alleged "evidence" hidden from the American people. To them, we are small, ignorant children who are unable to handle the truth.

As Paul Joseph Watson points out:

Harf's mention of social media posts which show rebels "bragging" about bringing down the airliner is likely a reference to a post on the Russian version of Facebook shortly after MH17 was shot down by Ukrainian rebel commander Igor Strelkov. However, as Max Fisher documents, "There are real reasons to doubt that the message was genuine."

First of all Strelkov's page "is a fake made by fans," according to rebels who spoke to Buzzfeed's Max Seddon, so the words cannot even be attributed to the commander. In addition, the post makes reference to the shoot down not of a civilian airliner but to an Antonov AN-26 military transport plane.

…

Video of a Buk missile launcher apparently crossing the border back to Russia after the plane was shot down which was cited by Kiev and Washington has also since been debunked. The clip is actually shot in the Ukrainian town of Krasnoarmeisk, which has been controlled by Kiev since May.

According to audio experts who conducted a forensic analysis, a YouTube video of a conversation between a separatist leader and a Russian military commander which purported to show rebels accepting responsibility for shooting down the airliner is in fact a fabrication.

While Russia has presented actual radar and satellite evidence to back up its contention that Ukrainian fighter jets were following the doomed airliner shortly before the incident, the sum of Kiev and Washington's proof that separatists were to blame for the shoot down amounts to little more than highly questionable YouTube videos and social media posts.

Kiev has also failed to release air traffic control recordings, which were seized immediately by Ukrainian security forces, which could offer a crucial insight into what was happening in the skies immediately prior to the aircraft being shot down.

While the Russian evidence could be manufactured, at least there is something being put out there that should be taken seriously. The State Department is claiming social media posts and YouTube videos are enough to support their claim. It isn't.

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http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/07/aw...outube-videos/

Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/21/2014 22:45 -0400

Ukraine hasn’t said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US 'snap judgment') to answer about the MH17 disaster. However, what is perhaps more concerning for the hordes of finger-pointers is that:

• RUSSIA HAS IMAGES OF UKRAINE DEPLOYING BUK ROCKETS IN EAST: IFX
• RUSSIA: UKRAINE MOVED BUK NEAR REBELS IN DONETSK JULY 17: IFX
• RUSSIA DETECTED UKRAINIAN FIGHTER JET PICK UP SPEED TOWARD MH17
  

Obviously, if there is proof that this is so, aside from CIA-created YouTube clips, these would deal another unpleasant blow to US foreign policy.
The Russian defense ministry during its press conference which concluded minutes ago:



Here is the full clip of the Russian ministry releasing its own forensic analysis of what happened to flight MH17 (with English translation).



Russia wants to know why Ukraine moved its BUK missiles systems the day of the MH17 crash:

• RUSSIAN GENERAL STAFF HAS SPACE IMAGES OF SECTORS OF UKRAINIAN FORCES' POSITIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN UKRAINE, INCLUDING BUK MISSILE LUNCH SITES 8 KILOMETERS FROM LUHANSK - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY - interfax

The day the Malaysian airliner crashed, the Ukrainian forces deployed an air defense group of three or four Buk-M1 missile batteries near Donetsk, Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, head of the Russian General Staff's Main Operations Department, told reporters on Monday.

"These surface-to-air systems are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 35 kilometers at an altitude of 22 kilometers. For what purpose and against whom were these missile systems deployed? As is known, the militia has no aviation," he said.

Russia has the flight paths of the Ukrainian fighters and MH17. Furthermore, it is asking the same question we asked last Thurday:

• RUSSIA SAYS MH17 DIVERGED 14 KM FROM FLIGHT PATH NEAR DONETSK

And wants to know why. The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:



Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.



As RT reports,

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.

“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.

“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.

And asks for US proof of their accusations:

• RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible - so why hasn't the US explained this or shown it?
• RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
• RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
• DEFENCE MINISTRY SAYS RUSSIA DID NOT DELIVER ANY SA-11 BUK MISSILE SYSTEMS TO SEPARATISTS IN EASTERN UKRAINE "OR ANY OTHER WEAPONS"

And went on to rebuke all the Twitter photos created by Maidan to 'prove' the BUKs were moving in Russian hands.
Additionally, as Russia noted using what appears to be legitimate photographic evidence (something the west has so far failed to provide in any capacity) MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.
“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.
The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a TELAR and two TELs, according to the military official.
Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.


Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryRadar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures, he elaborated.


Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said.


No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryNo Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry


Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.
* * *
Summing it all up, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, has 10 questions for Ukraine (google translated)

The global public expects a speedy and independent investigation into the causes of the disaster Malaysian aircraft in the airspace of Ukraine.
In order to conduct an objective investigation of possible leadership of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has ased ten questions to the Ukrainian side.

1. Ukrainian authorities immediately identified the militia as the perpetrators of the tragedy. What is the basis of such findings?

2. Could official Kiev to report all the details of using [BUKs] in a war zone? Most importantly - why these systems are deployed there, as the militia no planes?

3. What are the causes of inactivity of Ukrainian authorities on the formation of an international commission? When such a committee will work?

4. Are the armed forces of Ukraine international experts to present papers on accounting for missiles, air-to-air and ground-to-air ammo and anti-aircraft missiles?

5. Whether these funds objective control on the movement of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft on the day of the tragedy brought international commission?

6. Why Ukrainian air traffic controllers allowed deviation of the route of the aircraft to the north side of the "anti-terrorist operation zone"?

7. Why was not completely closed to civilian aircraft airspace over the combat zone, especially because in this area there was no solid field of radar navigation?

8. Could official Kiev to comment on reports in the net, ostensibly on behalf of the Spanish air traffic controllers working in Ukraine, which shot down over the territory of Ukraine "Boeing" was accompanied by two Ukrainian military aircraft?

9. Why Security Service of Ukraine has begun without international representatives work with recordings of talks with Ukrainian crew dispatchers "Boeing" and Ukrainian radar data?

10. How were the lessons from previous similar disasters Russian Tu-154 in 2001 in the Black Sea? Then the leaders of Ukraine until the last minute denied any involvement of the Armed Forces of the country to the tragedy until irrefutable evidence showed no guilt official Kiev.

Unfortunately, there has been no response by the Ukraine side to these questions so far. We expect that there will be some answers.
* * *
Needless to say, this places Ukraine and The US (as main protagonist of "finger pointer") in an awkward position as finally someone, somewhere will have to present some actual facts instead of merely continuing the "emotional appeals" propaganda.
We expect many of these questions to be answered once the contents of flight MH17's black box are revealed and/or when Ukraine finally releases an undoctored version of the Air Traffic control recording with the doomed flight.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...-warplanes-mh1

Pilots Heard Ukrainian Air Traffic Control Order MH17 to Change Route

Russia accuses Kiev of tampering with ATC recordings




by Paul Joseph Watson | July 23, 2014

Pilots on board an Air India Dreamliner which was flying just 90 seconds behind Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 say they heard Ukrainian air traffic control give the order for the doomed plane to change route minutes before MH17 was shot down by a missile.According to a report in the Times of India, “Minutes before the crash caused by a missile strike, the AI pilots…. heard the controller give the Malaysian aircraft MH17 what is called “a direct routing”.

This permits an aircraft to fly straight, instead of tracking the regular route which is generally a zig-zag track that goes from one ground-based navigation aid or way point to another.

”The AI Dreamliner was less than 25km away from MH17 when it was shot down, a flying distance of just 90 seconds. Ukraine ATC subsequently asked the Dreamliner pilots to try and make contact with MH17 when it disappeared from radar, but to no avail.India’s civil aviation industry denied that the Dreamliner was in the region when the incident occurred, although flight tracking data shows it was in the vicinity.

The news arrives as Russia accused Kiev of tampering with air traffic control data in order to sway the outcome of the investigation into what happened to MH17.

“According to reports that emerge, Ukrainian authorities are conducting certain covert activities involving data storage equipment and employees of Ukrainian air traffic control services, both civilian and military, without notifying international organizations,” spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said in a statement.

As we reported yesterday, the question of why Ukrainian authorities have refused to release transcripts of air traffic control conversations with pilots of the doomed airliner continues to swirl almost a week after the incident. In comparison, air traffic control transcripts involving Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which went missing in March, were released publicly within 72 hours.

Almost immediately after MH17 was shot down, “Ukraine’s SBU security service…. confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner,” reported BBC News.

Information obtained from the recordings could determine the veracity of Russia’s claim that MH17 was being closely followed by at least one Ukrainian fighter jet in the minutes before its demise.

Questions have abounded as to why flight MH17 pilots were re-routed to overfly eastern Ukraine when most other major airlines have avoided the airspace for months. Data shows that MH17′s previous ten flight paths before the shoot down avoided eastern Ukraine entirely.

In another development, Kiev claims that two Ukrainian fighter jets were shot down today by missiles fired from Russian territory. In an apparent contradiction to Kiev’s own narrative on MH17, Ukrainian security spokesman Col. Andriy Lysenko said that rebels did not have access to missiles that could reach 17,000 feet, despite the fact that MH17 was flying at an altitude of 33,000 feet when it was shot down.

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http://www.infowars.com/pilots-heard...-change-route/