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    Senior Member AirborneSapper7's Avatar
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    Biden Says Go Buy a Shotgun Mommy – You Can’t Aim an AR-15!

    Biden Says Go Buy a Shotgun Mommy – You Can’t Aim an AR-15!

    by Administrator on February 20, 2013



    Biden: "Buy A Shotgun, Buy A Shotgun" - YouTube

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    The word on the street lately is, “don’t worry they won’t be able to pass anything.” But yet, if you watch this video of VP Joe Biden, which is dated February 19th, only a couple days ago, he is still out there hard charging against AR-15s. This time he is giving us all advice for home defense, that we should arm our wives with a double barrel 12 gauge shotgun, “in case there is a problem,” and that said wife should shoot both barrels out the back door as a precautionary warning measure, just in case. It is a good thing his wife has never been stalked by someone sitting in his back yard with an AR-15, because after she disarmed herself and endangered her neighbors by foolishly taking Joe’s advice, she would have been a sitting duck. What a nut job this guy is, but he is clearly trying to pander to the “mommy” voters, who, since the Sandy Hook crisis began, have for the most part being walking in lock step behind the anti-gunners.

    Now, I’m quite sure that Joe already had a private security detail long before the taxpayer funded Secret Service protection he now bilks us for, so the story is most likely a complete fabrication. The argument over shotgun vs. AR-15 is semantics, but it does show that the anti-gunners are going to attack this issue from every angle that they can, even trying to convince a Prozac infused America that they are in fact on the side of the people, with proper instructions as to how to protect your home. Here on GunsAmerica we are preaching to the choir, including a lot of you mommys out there who are proud American 2nd Amendment defenders, but every single one of you has a misguided friend that you could talk to, and now is the time to talk to them.

    The takeaway for us is that the Obama administration is not giving up this fight, and neither should we. Mayor Bloomberg has given Uncle Joe and his friends at the Brady organization a blank check and a bottomless well of funds, and we all know what politicians do with that. They try to find the bottom of the well. But this time, instead of going after cigarettes or how fast you can drive your car or what your kids are allowed to bring in their lunch to school, these well funded political fools are going after our fundamental, God given right to protect ourselves, canonized in the United States Constitution Bill of Rights as the 2nd Amendment, the right to keep and bear arms.

    Joe also manages to try to convince us, and his host, that readers of Parents magazine would never ask about defending their homes. He is of course suggesting that any proper thinking parent would at this point, after 20 white kids got killed in a white school, not have any questions about how to protect their families from harm with a firearm. Prior to Sandy Hook, when golf was mostly what he talked about, it doesn’t seem to have been an issue for Joe. Uncle Joe Biden just gave the old wifey his grandpappy’s 12 gauge to protect herself with, and that was that. Before the white kids got killed there was no national emergency. VP Joe, and of course President Obama himself completely ignored that black and Hispanic readers of Parents magazine in inner city neighborhoods have been losing children to murderers using already illegally owned firearms by the thousands every year. New Orleans, Louisiana is ranked 21st, worldwide in murders per capita. Detroit, Michigan, is 30th, and St. Louis and Baltimore are 43rd and 48th respectively.

    Hey Mr. Vice President! Less than 2% of all murders committed with illegal guns in America are committed with a rifle. A fraction of that with what you call (incorrectly) “assault weapons.” It is also amazing that places like Florida and Georgia, where the good guys are allowed to also have guns, aren’t on that top 50 list. Do you really think the readers of Parents magazine are that stupid?

    As we have noted several times since November, women were the deciding vote in the 2012 elections. The margin was 20% in the difference from male voters in supporting President Obama , and it signaled a change in the power structure of America. Women are now the only swing vote that matters. Now that Obama can’t run for another term, the Democrat political machine is going to try to coddle women voters as much as they can, so that they retain that 20% margin in the mid-terms and in the 2016 Presidential race. “Arm the victims” is not going to be allowed to come in the gun discussion, and neither is the subject of shipping all of those inner city jobs to China and Mexico. No discussion on inner city violence should even begin without addressing both of those issues of course, yet neither party is interested in “change we can believe in.” They know that for some sick reason they have that inner city vote, and they are counting on retaining the mommy vote by wringing their hands and yelling “we have to do something.” The question is, mommies, are you really going to buy this? Really?

    Nobody, not even the NRA, thinks that we have a chance of waking up inner city minorities to the fact that they are being sold out by their own leaders. Inner city church and community leaders in the black and Hispanic communities should be ashamed of themselves for supporting the recent wave of gun turn in programs. Most of these guns are legally owned by law abiding Americans who have the right to protect themselves, but have been completely removed from their 2nd Amendment rights. It makes no sense, and sends the wrong message to both the community and the politicians. America is about freedom and opportunity. Freedom, from the fear of crime and senseless murders of inner city kids, will only come by putting affordable guns in the hands of the law abiding readers of Parents magazine. In fact, Chicago, Detroit, Flint, St. Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore, and every other inner city where it is difficult for a law abiding citizen to own a gun should instantly issue Concealed Carry licenses to every current subscriber to Parents, and buy them a Kel-Tec or Ruger LCP.

    Now THAT is real change we can believe in!

    Politics is politics to some degree, but mommies, if you look back in history, the singular most dangerous thing a society can do to the safety of their families is to disarm them. If you love your children, stop wringing your hands with Uncle Joe and do some homework. Government has slaughtered more innocents than all the criminals combined, and not just those convenient Jew killing Nazis. A very well meaning group of “socialists” in Russia who thought they could build a peaceful utopia turned into the most murderous regime in the history of man, killing nearly as many families as died in the Holocaust in the Ukraine alone, by starvation. This was less than 100 years ago, and Stalin did it solely because he could, because his population had been disarmed for the communist utopia. When you think of those kids in Sandy Hook, try thinking about the millions of kids who died under Stalin from a long and slow intentional government engineered starvation.

    Hand wringing isn’t going to protect your children. Guns, in your hands, not just the government’s, will protect your children, and your children’s children. As a parent, you should be fighting to take “gun control,” and legal ownership of guns by law abiding Americans off the table as a political football, for good. Call your legislators today, and not just at their Washington offices. Call the local numbers. Don’t settle for being a checkmark on a list. Tell the politicians that guns are not on the table, and ask your friends if they really believe what the government is trying to sell them. You can influence them, and if you truly love your family and wish a bright future for them, it is your personal responsibility.

    If we don’t, or if we think it is someone else’s job, all it will take is the next Sandy Hook or Columbine to pass legislation overnight that is far more severe than what they are unable to pass today.

    You doubt it?

    A Seattle legislator tried to get the Washington State “assault weapons” ban passed with a proviso that the police visit existing gun owner homes once a year, just like Nazi brown shirts. He meant it as a “guiding light of where we need to go.” Really mommys? Is that the guiding light that you envision for the future of your children?

    Biden Says Buy a Shotgun Mommy – You Can’t Aim an AR-15!
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    Senior Member AirborneSapper7's Avatar
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    Kel-Tec KSG 15 Round Shotgun – Range Report

    by Administrator on June 10, 2012

    http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/kel-...-range-report/

    Go down to read the article




    This is our KSG. It is a 12 gauge bullpup shotgun made by Kel-Tec that holds a total of 15 rounds, 7 in each magazine tube and one in the chamber. It is outfitted with a front and rear open AR-15 type sight from Leapers/UTG, and the front sight has a laser that is activated by a pad on the handgrip. The front grip is a Tapco polymer model that works great on the gun.


    The business end of the KSG is formidable, with a big 12 gauge hole where the mean stuff comes out.


    The KSG is suprisingly manageable when you lean into it and take control of the gun. With light, medium and heavy buckshot we shot this for an entire afternoon with over 200 rounds and nobody got a bruise, or missed a target.


    If you enlarge this picture you will see the magazine selector lever. It is to the right. Whichever side it is on, this is the side you can load the magazine on, and the side that will pop the next round when you jack the action. The slide has to be forward to load the tubes. The middle position allows you to clear the action without popping another shell.


    This is the slide release, in the front of trigger guard. It allows you to open the action and eject a shell without firing. With the selector in the middle position this would allow you to clear the KSG and load a specialty round, like a breacher bag or a non-lethal.


    The sides of the two KSG magazines are slotted for round counts and identification.


    The only downside to the ergonimics of the completely ambidexrous KSG is that the rounds eject down onto your wrist, and it hurts after you get hit a few times. The red mark didn’t photograph well, but it was pretty red.


    We tested the KSG with ten different kinds of ammunition, including the Aguila Minishells. All of them worked really well.


    The KSG fed the Aguilla Minishells reliable with zero failures over several boxes. It holds 12 in each tube.


    The paper plate don’t lie. There is a world of difference between all three of these rounds that have become popular with law enforcement and for home defense. We really need to do a complete overview of the differences, but you can see from the targets and velocities some of the differences here.


    These two pins work just like the ones we saw on the KRISS Vector some time ago. You can push them out with your finger and the whole gun comes apart from there.


    This lower pulls off for easy access to the bolt area.


    Then you pull off the buttstock from the back, and the bolt is just sitting there to take out and wipe down. It really didn’t need it the gun stays amazingly clean.


    We just happened to put on polymer Tapco foregrip with a large bearing surface. The bottom rail may be plastic, but it seemed and worked solid as a rock with the polymer grip.


    The trigger broke at just over 5 pounds and had a 1/10th of an inch reset.


    Check out the nine targets below. Side by side the different loads delivered mostly as promissed and the KSG shot them well.

    Kel-Tec Firearms
    http://www.keltecweapons.com/ksg/
    No gun has made more noise in the gun market over the past two years than the Kel-Tec KSG. Introduced in prototype at SHOT Show of 2011, the KSG is a bullpup design pump action shotgun with two, side by side, selectable magazine tubes, each holding seven regular 2 3/4″ shotgun shells. This adds up to an awesome firepower total of 14, plus one round in the pipe, for a total of 15 round pump shotgun. For a compact high capacity shotgun, the KSG has had no equal.
    The problem has been unfortunately , nobody could get one, not even the writers. Now the KSG is making its way out into the market and the demand is far outstripping supply. For several months now the guns have been selling at a premium of well over the MSRP of $880, but they are at least coming out, and we were able to finally take one to the range. While everyone has been waiting for the KSG, while supply slowly catches up to demand, we have all been asking, is the KSG a novelty gun for the armchair zombie hunters, or is it a serious close quarters battle shotgun? On first blush, it could be a bit of both, but when you shoot the KSG, there is no denying that for home defense, police use, and even military strike teams, this is probably a gun that is here to stay.
    The first order of business on any new firearm design like this is to run the gun a lot with several types of ammunition. We started with bird shot, just to get a feel for the recoil. This is of course a bullpup, so the shell is being shot from right next to your head. That can be a little scary for a gun you’ve never shot before. The birdshot was like shooting an AR. Light and comfortable. Then we moved up to Federal low recoil law enforcement buckshot, then to full snot buckshot, then to the Hornady specialty hot buckshot. Overall we put more than 250 rounds through the KSG in one afternoon, and surprisingly the gun did not have even one shortstroke or failure to eject or really anything other than perfect behavior.
    That brings us to recoil. The KSG does take 3″ shells, but for these tests we stuck to 2 3/4″ buckshot, and a couple specialty rounds. You will be surprised at how little the KSG recoils, even with the hottest loads, which we found to be both the Hornady Critical Defense and Superformance. It is still a 12 guage shotgun of course, and the laws of physics still apply. With full strength and extra hot buckshot the KSG does recoil a good deal, but if you lean into the gun and brace yourself, you can shoot the gun over dozens of rounds with no pain or bruising, and the jump doesn’t hinder followup shots the way it does with a standard full stock 20″ tactical shotgun. The straight back, shoulder pivot point of the recoil somehow makes the KSG feel like it recoils about half of what you would call normal. You have to shoot it to believe it.
    Flipping between the two magazine tubes is not the smoothest thing. You can’t be casual about it. With a hard push it clicks over every time. The tubes are set up so that the selector lever is on one side or the other, or in the middle. When it is on either side, that side can be loaded, just like you would load the magazine tube on a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870, one round thumbed in at a time, and when you rack the slide, that side is the one that will pop the shell for the next shot. If the selector is in the middle, the gun merely ejects the round and doesn’t pop another shell.
    Theoretically, you could carry a different load in each of the two tubes and select between them depending on your needs. I take a little bit of an issue with this thinking because on a practical level, nobody is going to put themselves into the middle of a potential gunfight with an empty chamber, waiting for a decision on which type of round to use. Granted, because of the extreme high capacity, you could, say, keep the left tube with buckshot as your default, and fill the right tube with slugs. If you needed to take a longer shot than 40 yards or so, or you were dealing with a hostage kind of situation where a wide buckshot pattern isn’t desirable, you could flip the selector, rack the round out and pop a slug. It sounds good, and with real training it might actually work, but someone has to pay for all that ammo. Probably not happening.
    As we said all the way back at that first look at the gun in 2011, the KSG is packed with features that you wouldn’t think you would find on a first generation gun like this. It has a top and bottom accessory rail, and the sides of the magazine tubes are slotted for round counters. If you look at the pictures you will see that the slide release is right in front of the trigger guard, so clearing the chamber is easy and intuitive, far more than any other pump gun on the market. The top rail is aluminum, and believe it or not, the KSG doesn’t come with sights. This is probably the the only odd thing on a gun that seems to have brought everything else to the party.
    The sights we put on are from Leapers/UTG. The rear is a standard AR-15 style aperture and the front is also a standard front post. This front sight also has a laser in it, and we led the pressure switch wire across the top of the rail in the middle slot, held down by UTG rail covers. The top rail could of course employ a red dot or holographic sight, but for a home defense weapon that might sit for months without being checked, relying on batteries isn’t the best idea. This gun shoots fabulous with regular old open sights, and if you want to add lights and lasers, great, but make sure you your primary sights are available without batteries.
    As you can see from the pictures, we decided to trick out the gun a bit with what most people will probably want on the KSG at a minimum. I have seen some internet armchair mavens shooting the KSG without a foregrip, but in the opinion of everyone in our group who shot it, you really need a foregrip. The two magazine tubes make the slide itself fat, and the rail makes it not the most pleasant thing to hold onto under recoil. There have been complaints that the KSG bottom rail is plastic, and subject to breaking with a foregrip, but after hundreds of rounds we saw no evidence of any wear whatsoever. We did use a plastic foregrip, from Tapco and it has a large bearing surface, but it is plastic itself. Perhaps an aluminum grip would cut into the plastic of the rail more, who knows. I wouldn’t want to fall forward and land on the gun and expect the grip to not twist off, but for regular shooting under regular conditions, this Tapco grip isn’t going anywhere on the KSG and just about anyone will shoot better with it, at not a huge additional expense.
    Taking down the KSG and putting it back together is a little tricky but not difficult once you understand the pieces and they way they work together. You pull the two pins, remove the lower, pull out the buttstock, and remove the bolt. If you want you can take the mag tubes out but there is no need from what we saw of the gun. In fact, after over 200 rounds, the action of the gun was almost completely clean, leaving little to do but wipe down the bolt and bolt face, which weren’t even covered with carbon. Swab the barrel like any shotgun and you are good to go on the KSG, with not a lot of cleaning concerns.
    For ammo, we tried a total of ten different versions of traditional law enforcement and personal defense loads. Nine are represented in the results here because there was no difference between the Federal Law Enforcement and Personal Defense rounds, LE142 and PD132 respectively. We included in our tests the Aguilla 1 3/4″ Minishells, just to see if they would run. Surprisingly they did, with complete reliability, and the Kel-Tec KSG holds 25, count em, * t-w-e-n-t-y f-i-v-e * rounds, 12 each side, plus one. At ten yards the Minishells open up a little more than most would like, partly because the KSG is only an 18 1/2″ cylinder bore gun with no choke at all, but for close quarters combat, that’s a ton of firepower in a small package.
    The other rounds we tested at 10 yards behaved as expected. The Federal LE132 stays tighter than most normal buckshot, probably because of the plastic fiber buffer that they stuff between the 9 pellets. The 8 pellet, slightly lighter payload Hornady Superformance and Critical Defense were the most punishing on both ends, clocking almost 300 feet per second faster than standard 9 pellet buckshot on the front, and with the sharpest recoil on the back. Most surprising were the new Winchester PDX1 12 gauge loads. They deliver a whopping 590 grain total payload using a 439 grain rifled slug and three buckshot, traveling at over 1000 feet per second. At ten yards the PDX1 was right on point of aim with the slug, and the buckshot were dispersed reasonably well. All of the standard buckshot, including military issue 00 Buck from Winchester, shot pretty much to the same point of aim with healthy dispersion at 10 yards, which is considered normal combat distance for buckshot.
    The only real downside to the KSG was the ejection port. It ejects the spent shells with force straight down, into your arm. After a few dozen rounds our shoulders were fine, but on a short sleeve day in sunny south Florida, there was a noticeable red mark where the shells where hitting on our wrists. Other than wearing a heavy shirt or coat, there is no real way around it. I suspect there will be some kind of aftermarket deflector at some point, but for now you just have to train yourself not to say ouch after you get hit enough to hurt. Saying out in a firefight is bad, even if you are winning. Because the KSG ejects straight down, and the controls are all in the middle on both sides of the gun, the KSG is completely ambidextrous, including the red mark on your wrist.
    Looking around the internet, it is comforting to note that there are really nothing but positive reviews of the KSG out there. Kel-Tec took an extra year of R&D after SHOT of 2011 to get this gun right. Originally it didn’t cycle 3″ shells, and though we didn’t test this yet, now it apparently does. There was a short stroke issue with the early prototypes, but you can’t get this gun to short stroke even if you try. The trigger reset was another issue, and we measured our test gun with calipers at about 1/10th of an inch, in line with the most advanced striker pistols. The thing you don’t see much of on the internet are reviews with more than a few rounds. We put a ton of lead downrange with the KSG and the gun doesn’t even need to be cleaned, and nothing got loose, came apart, or misaligned. America has never been particularly in love with bullpups. Most have failed in the market over the years. But like the revolutionary RFB .308 bullpup rifle from Kel-Tec (that we still have yet to get one to try), America seems to love the KSG, and it sure shoots great, so even those who do pay the price gougers out there right now won’t be disappointed.
    And on a closing note, about the price gougers, and yes, they are selling on GunsAmerica as well, please don’t flame Kel-Tec about the people out there selling the KSG well over the MSRP of $880. They do not control what dealers get the guns, nor how many guns they get, nor how much those dealers sell the guns for. Kel-Tec sells to distributors. The distributors sell to dealers. The dealers sell to consumers, and it is the dealers who set the prices. This is America, and capitalism shouldn’t be a dirty word, no matter how hard the media, the grade school and even college teachers have tried to make it one . Supply and demand are a product of the market. Right now the distributors are rewarding their good dealers by sending them KSGs, so that they can sell them to their own regular customers, mostly at MSRP. A few guns here and there don’t get allocated to the big shops, and that is the source of the price gougers mostly.
    And in defense of the dealers who are selling the KSG at well over retail , if they sold every KSG they were able to get for $880, there would be flippers searching out the guns and selling them for $1,500 the same day regardless. At GunsAmerica we would rather see the stocking dealers make the money if the money is to be made. Stocking gun dealers, who are getting most of the 100 or so KSG shotguns that Kel-Tec can produce every day, are the foundation of our 2nd Amendment freedom in America since the Gun Control Act of 1968, and anything that makes a brick and mortar stocking gun dealer a little extra is a good thing. Eventually supply should catch up to demand on the KSG. Kel-Tec opened a whole new production department this year and is working to further capacity even more.
    In the long run we will all get our KSGs. It is a high quality firearm from a company that has improved every year since they began Kel-Tec is in the firearms business for the long haul, and the KSG is here to stay. Patience grasshopper. All good things come to those who wait. And no, ours is NOT FOR SALE!


    The Kel-Tec KSG – Spread and Velocity with Common Defensive Loads


    Remington 9 pellet 00 Buckshot. Average velocity was 1236 feet per second. The pattern dispersed cleanly and all 9 pellets were on the 12″ target at 10 yards.

    This is the Federal LE132, which was the same as the PD132. The “Flight Control Wad” stretches the entire length of the cartridge and the shot is buffered with a white plastic fiber. As you can see it stayed the tightest of our group at 10 yards. Average velocty was 1145 feet per second. Total payload was weighed at 444 grains.

    Hornady Critical Defense is an 8 pellet high velocity round we measured at an average 1542 feet per second for the 381 grain payload. It was the most impressive of all the ammo we tested for a nice control and even group on the center of the target.

    We could not distinguish much difference between the Critical Defense and this Superformance. The average velocity was almost the same, 1538, and the payload is the same, but was slightly tighter and lower.

    This is not the reduced power/recoil Fiocchi, and its 9 pellets were the fastest of the 9 pellet 00 buck loads at 1282 feet per second. It kicked the hardest of all the loads as well, and the spread was impressivly controlled for a low cost buckshot.

    The widest pattern of the 9 pellet was the Winchster military issue load of 00 buck. It was close to the Fiocchi at 1276 feet per second.

    Full power Federal Power-Shok was not as tight as the reduced recoil stuff, but delivered more of a punch, delivering 1265 feet per second in a tight and centered pattern.

    This is the Aguilla Minishell. It measured 1280 feet per second, but not all the balls were on target.

    There should have been a total of 11 holes, with 4 of #1 buck and 7 of #4 buck. As you can see, there is no traditional wad. The plastic disk is it, and the pattern is too wide for anything but point blank, bedroom distances.


    Over 300 grains traveling at over 1200 feet per second is a nasty load, if you can get the shot on target.

    The PDX1 from Winchester packs a rifles slug with 3 buckshot. It is devastating.

    At almost 600 grains, we measured this at over 1000 feet per second.
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    Senior Member AirborneSapper7's Avatar
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    Mossberg’s Silver Reserve is a line of entry-level, break-open shotguns that cover an array of sporting shotgun activities. Models include basic field over-unders for hunting, sporting guns with competition-specific features for competitive shooting, and nostalgic side-by-sides for those who pine for simpler times.The newest generation of Silver Reserve shotguns—the Silver Reserve II—is still modestly priced, but also has some of the special touches hunters and shooters expect on higher-quality double guns. Those features include black walnut stocks with fine-line checkering and blued barrels complemented by silver-finished receivers sporting wraparound classic scroll engraving. Functionally, the Silver Reserve II line offers chrome-plated chambers and bores, dual-locking lugs and tang-mounted safety/barrel selectors as standard features. A variety of barrel lengths and stock options are also available. read more 14 Comments


    The 2nd Amendment vs. Bloomberg’s Money & Obama’s Campaign
    This is a video of a half hour “fireside chat” type interview with NRA President David Keene. You will most likely have to sit through a short advertisement to watch it, but it is actually very good. There are a couple points at the beginning which everyone should share with their friends and legislators, outlined below. The most disgusting thing about this mess is that it is readily apparent at this point that President Obama and the anti-gunners at Brady saw Sandy Hook as an opportunity. How disgusting is that? Is America’s 2nd Amendment freedom really going to fall victim to Michael Bloomberg’s money?You may have read the article on Drudge that suggested this fight is over, but it is not. Contact and re-contact your legislators and tell them that we offer NO QUARTER to politicians who vote against our 2nd Amendment rights. American gun owners will not tolerate any new gun legislation as a result of the PR campaign from Sandy Hook. That means no gun bans, no magazine bans, no killing our gun shows, no stopping private interstate transfers of firearms, and NO CLASSIFYING US ALL AS CRAZY SO YOU CAN TAKE OUR GUNS AWAY. read more 126 Comments
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    Biden misses the point in recommending a “double-barrel shotgun”


    by The Blog on February 20, 2013

    Yesterday VP Biden said that “if you want to protect yourself, get a double barrel shotgun”:



    Biden: "Buy A Shotgun, Buy A Shotgun" - YouTube

    Speaking to his wife, Jill, Biden said, “If there’s ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here–walk out, put that double barrel shot gun and fire two blasts outside the house — I promise you whoever is coming in … You don’t need an AR-15, it’s harder to aim, it’s harder to use…Buy a shotgun! Buy a shotgun!”

    Biden is right in saying that a shotgun is good for home defense, but that isn’t the point. All weapons are protected by the Second Amendment, not just the ones the government recommends.

    Biden misses the point in recommending a “double-barrel shotgun”
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