Thread: Christians called to abandon public education

Originally Posted by jshhmr

What a great idea! Religion has no place in public school. I always found it ironic that "Christian Sally" wants to pray in school, while making fun of people and doing un-christian things. Hypocrite High School has a nice ring to it.

You seem to jump on any post or comment that even sniffs of Christianity.

Did you have a "bad experience" with a Christian? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or nosy, but I'm just curious as to where the resentment from people who make comments like yours come from.

I've never felt this way about Christians even after a few "bad experiences" of my own with them, so just wondering why all the resentment.

Originally Posted by SicNTiredInSoCal

Originally Posted by jshhmr

What a great idea! Religion has no place in public school. I always found it ironic that "Christian Sally" wants to pray in school, while making fun of people and doing un-christian things. Hypocrite High School has a nice ring to it.

You seem to jump on any post or comment that even sniffs of Christianity.

Did you have a "bad experience" with a Christian? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or nosy, but I'm just curious as to where the resentment from people who make comments like yours come from.

I've never felt this way about Christians even after a few "bad experiences" of my own with them, so just wondering why all the resentment.

I became a born again christian when in 1989. My parents separated in 1988. After I witnessed my friend get stabbed in the neck at a public school, I begged to go to a christian school. I went in 8th grade, and I graduated there. During that period and after I graduated, I was severely depressed dealing with my moms cancer, because it was a huge struggle. My faith was still strong. All within one week of 1998, my mom died and the airline I worked for went bankrupt, spiralling me down even further. In 1999, I lived alone and after work I spent time talking to God. One night in great despair, I purchased a large bottle of Tylenol PM with the intention of killing myself. As I sat in silence crying and contemplating what I was about to do, all of a sudden a huge rush of peace and love completely overwhelmed me. I knew that God was there and it was if he answered all of my questions about faith, life, and the universe were answered at once. I had an out of body experience with God at my side and for the first time I saw myself and the world for what it was. He showed me the faith in religion has nothing to do with salvation, but it was our actions and how we live that is our salvation. I came back a completely different person because I saw things in a completely different light. God showed me the hypocrisy that todays religion represents. I began to study the history of christianity, and how far off today's bible is from the original teachings. In the 1500's the bible was changed to hellfire and brimstone, and all of a sudden Jesus was the son of God and all we had to do to go to heaven is accept Jesus as our savior, instead of being good people and truly loving our neighbor. The bible was changed and used to scare pagans into their religion, and also added tithing so they could get as much money as possible. Here we are in 2008, and if all the tithing that went to churches instead went to feeding and helping others, then we would TRULY be doing God's plan. The bible tells you that Jesus was perfect and there is no way we could ever attain that level of spirit. That is false. We all have the ability to be like Jesus, but we CHOOSE not to. Yet at the same time christians take on a holier than thou attitude if you are not a christian, and tell you that you will burn in suffer for eternity in a pit of hell-fire, but God loves you. During my out of body experience, God showed me that he has unconditional love for all beings, regardless of religion. Let me make this comparison. I am a parent of a wonderful 5 year old girl, and my love for her is unconditional no matter what she does with her life. I will be there to help her along the way anyway I can. As a parent, how could I condemn my daughter to an eternity of suffering just because she didn't choose the right religion? We made our mistake when we believe that God is human, and thinks like a human. God is love, not human. The immensity of God is beyond what a human mind can comprehend. God exists in multiple dimensions and realities. This universe is a mere nucleus in the body of God. It is EXTREMELY frustating to see the world coming to an end BECAUSE of religion. Bush being voted into office twice by blinded christians is the perfect example of this. Becuase of their actions, I have to suffer. Becuase christians ignore God's plan, I have to suffer. Look at the Isreal-Palestine conflict. It is because of 2 religions professing that they are right, and the other is wrong, when in the end they are BOTH wrong. God's plan for me is to show people that they aren't doing their part in the world. I expose hypocrisy when needed because hopefully people will begin to see it themselves, and begin to follow the path of good. When the poop hits the fan, and christians are standing around wondering why they didn't miraculously dissapear in the "rapture", I will be here to guide them on their path.
Our great nation is a nation of laws, yet everyday on Alipac I read a story about a church that is trying to help illegal immigrants, who broke the law, yet the bible tells them that we have to abide by law. I do truly love all of my brothers and sisters on this planet, including illegal immigrants in this country. But that still does not give them the right to destroy a country founded on the idea of God and laws. I pray everday for people to wake up, before it is too late.
In the last couple of centuries, mankind has made enormous progress. We can do things now that we thought impossible two decades ago. We are a curious and adventurous species. Our potential on this planet is astronomical. Yet here we are now, and look at the mess that we have collectively made. All the work and progress of the last couple of centuries is about to come to a tragic end, unless we choose a different path and strive to be like Jesus.

Sorry for the long post, I hope it will answer some of your questions SicNTired. I consider myself a reformed and re-connected Christian. I follow the teachings of the first bible, direct from the scrolls of the authors themselves. Not a book that has been interpreted thousands of times for un-Godly reasons.

jshhmr I also believe that today's organized religion is just a tool greedy and evil people use to distort the real reality that God is a force and your relationship with him is a personal one. I got sick of going to church and leaving feeling like a total sinner and all others that didn't conform with the churches agenda was dammed.

The entire school system is so screwed up. Pronouncements that our traditions are no longer allowed to be celebrated because we might be insulting a child with other traditions that may not celebrate Christmas according to their family tradition. And during Ramadan, many people eat only after dark, cleansing themselves. Does that mean the Muslim child will be denied lunch at school? Of course not, so why should a Christian child be denied being taught the traditions of this country?
Religion should be left at home, and singing Christmas carols or putting up a Christmas tree is nothing more than observing tradition, a tradition that has lasted through the ages. What better way to understand this country than learning about its traditions.
Next thing you know, they will cancel Thanksgiving because Pilgrims escaped from religious persecution and prayed a lot for food.

Originally Posted by vortex

The entire school system is so screwed up. Pronouncements that our traditions are no longer allowed to be celebrated because we might be insulting a child with other traditions that may not celebrate Christmas according to their family tradition. And during Ramadan, many people eat only after dark, cleansing themselves. Does that mean the Muslim child will be denied lunch at school? Of course not, so why should a Christian child be denied being taught the traditions of this country?
Religion should be left at home, and singing Christmas carols or putting up a Christmas tree is nothing more than observing tradition, a tradition that has lasted through the ages. What better way to understand this country than learning about its traditions.
Next thing you know, they will cancel Thanksgiving because Pilgrims escaped from religious persecution and prayed a lot for food.

Thanksgiving was meant to be a day to give thanks to God. They now have the reason to cancel it, except for that would destroy "black Friday" and big business would NEVER allow that.

Right, cayla99. And while they are cancelling Thanksgiving, I just realized they ought to cancel Halloween as that is the hallowed eve before All Souls Day, when the spirits of the ancestors roam the earth according to religious tradition. And guaranteed that 4th of July also has banned religious overtones, since there were only Christians signing the Declaration of Independence, without representation from Muslim, Hindu, Bhuddist, or Taoist factions. Shame on us!

Originally Posted by vortex

Right, cayla99. And while they are cancelling Thanksgiving, I just realized they ought to cancel Halloween as that is the hallowed eve before All Souls Day, when the spirits of the ancestors roam the earth according to religious tradition. And guaranteed that 4th of July also has banned religious overtones, since there were only Christians signing the Declaration of Independence, without representation from Muslim, Hindu, Bhuddist, or Taoist factions. Shame on us!

It would be a shame to get rid of our American traditions. After your comment about the founding fathers, I found this breakdown for those interested.

Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers # of
Founding
Fathers % of
Founding
Fathers
Episcopalian/Anglican 88 54.7%
Presbyterian 30 18.6%
Congregationalist 27 16.8%
Quaker 7 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed 6 3.7%
Lutheran 5 3.1%
Catholic 3 1.9%
Huguenot 3 1.9%
Unitarian 3 1.9%
Methodist 2 1.2%
Calvinist 1 0.6%
TOTAL 204

Originally Posted by jshhmr

Originally Posted by SicNTiredInSoCal

Originally Posted by jshhmr

What a great idea! Religion has no place in public school. I always found it ironic that "Christian Sally" wants to pray in school, while making fun of people and doing un-christian things. Hypocrite High School has a nice ring to it.

You seem to jump on any post or comment that even sniffs of Christianity.

Did you have a "bad experience" with a Christian? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or nosy, but I'm just curious as to where the resentment from people who make comments like yours come from.

I've never felt this way about Christians even after a few "bad experiences" of my own with them, so just wondering why all the resentment.

I became a born again christian when in 1989. My parents separated in 1988. After I witnessed my friend get stabbed in the neck at a public school, I begged to go to a christian school. I went in 8th grade, and I graduated there. During that period and after I graduated, I was severely depressed dealing with my moms cancer, because it was a huge struggle. My faith was still strong. All within one week of 1998, my mom died and the airline I worked for went bankrupt, spiralling me down even further. In 1999, I lived alone and after work I spent time talking to God. One night in great despair, I purchased a large bottle of Tylenol PM with the intention of killing myself. As I sat in silence crying and contemplating what I was about to do, all of a sudden a huge rush of peace and love completely overwhelmed me. I knew that God was there and it was if he answered all of my questions about faith, life, and the universe were answered at once. I had an out of body experience with God at my side and for the first time I saw myself and the world for what it was. He showed me the faith in religion has nothing to do with salvation, but it was our actions and how we live that is our salvation. I came back a completely different person because I saw things in a completely different light. God showed me the hypocrisy that todays religion represents. I began to study the history of christianity, and how far off today's bible is from the original teachings. In the 1500's the bible was changed to hellfire and brimstone, and all of a sudden Jesus was the son of God and all we had to do to go to heaven is accept Jesus as our savior, instead of being good people and truly loving our neighbor. The bible was changed and used to scare pagans into their religion, and also added tithing so they could get as much money as possible. Here we are in 2008, and if all the tithing that went to churches instead went to feeding and helping others, then we would TRULY be doing God's plan. The bible tells you that Jesus was perfect and there is no way we could ever attain that level of spirit. That is false. We all have the ability to be like Jesus, but we CHOOSE not to. Yet at the same time christians take on a holier than thou attitude if you are not a christian, and tell you that you will burn in suffer for eternity in a pit of hell-fire, but God loves you. During my out of body experience, God showed me that he has unconditional love for all beings, regardless of religion. Let me make this comparison. I am a parent of a wonderful 5 year old girl, and my love for her is unconditional no matter what she does with her life. I will be there to help her along the way anyway I can. As a parent, how could I condemn my daughter to an eternity of suffering just because she didn't choose the right religion? We made our mistake when we believe that God is human, and thinks like a human. God is love, not human. The immensity of God is beyond what a human mind can comprehend. God exists in multiple dimensions and realities. This universe is a mere nucleus in the body of God. It is EXTREMELY frustating to see the world coming to an end BECAUSE of religion. Bush being voted into office twice by blinded christians is the perfect example of this. Becuase of their actions, I have to suffer. Becuase christians ignore God's plan, I have to suffer. Look at the Isreal-Palestine conflict. It is because of 2 religions professing that they are right, and the other is wrong, when in the end they are BOTH wrong. God's plan for me is to show people that they aren't doing their part in the world. I expose hypocrisy when needed because hopefully people will begin to see it themselves, and begin to follow the path of good. When the poop hits the fan, and christians are standing around wondering why they didn't miraculously dissapear in the "rapture", I will be here to guide them on their path.
Our great nation is a nation of laws, yet everyday on Alipac I read a story about a church that is trying to help illegal immigrants, who broke the law, yet the bible tells them that we have to abide by law. I do truly love all of my brothers and sisters on this planet, including illegal immigrants in this country. But that still does not give them the right to destroy a country founded on the idea of God and laws. I pray everday for people to wake up, before it is too late.
In the last couple of centuries, mankind has made enormous progress. We can do things now that we thought impossible two decades ago. We are a curious and adventurous species. Our potential on this planet is astronomical. Yet here we are now, and look at the mess that we have collectively made. All the work and progress of the last couple of centuries is about to come to a tragic end, unless we choose a different path and strive to be like Jesus.

Sorry for the long post, I hope it will answer some of your questions SicNTired. I consider myself a reformed and re-connected Christian. I follow the teachings of the first bible, direct from the scrolls of the authors themselves. Not a book that has been interpreted thousands of times for un-Godly reasons.

Thanks for this. I needed a few days to process what you said and then finally get time to respond. I understand where you are coming from because our backrounds are very similar. I have not lost my mom to cancer, but my parents split up in 1988 and I did lose a brother to an ATC accident in mexico when I was 15 and eventually I did try to take my own life with too much tylenol. (Thank God-that didn't work!)

I agree with most of what you said, however there are some points I respectfully disagree with you on.

We kicked God out of schools in the 60's and look where it got us. Columbine and all the copycat crimes from it. God does have a place in our country, schools, courts, and most of all our government. Check this out:

I hope you haven't already seen this one. Read on. I found this very interesting.

Do you know the Preamble for your state?

Alabama 1901, Preamble We the people of the State of Alabama , invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution..

Alaska 1956, Preamble We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land.

Arizona 1911, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...

Arkansas 1874, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...

California 1879, Preamble We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom...

Colorado 1876, Preamble We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe...

Connecticut 1818, Preamble The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy.

Delaware 1897, Preamble Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences.

Florida 1885, Preamble We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution...

Georgia 1777, Preamble We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...

Hawaii 1959, Preamble We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine Guidance ... Establish this Constitution.

Idaho 1889, Preamble We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings.

Illinois 1870, Preamble We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.

Indiana 1851, Preamble We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to choose our form of government.

Iowa 1857, Preamble We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings, establish this Constitution.

Kansas 1859, Preamble We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.

Kentucky 1891, Preamble We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties..

Louisiana 1921, Preamble We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy.

Maine 1820, Preamble We, the People of Maine, acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity .. And imploring His aid and direction.

Maryland 1776, Preamble We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty...

Massachusetts 1780, Preamble We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction.

Michigan 1908, Preamble We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom, establish this Constitution.

Minnesota, 1857, Preamble We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings

Mississippi 1890, Preamble We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.

Missouri 1845, Preamble We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness . Establish this Constitution...

Montana 1889, Preamble We, the people of Montana , grateful to almighty God for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution ..

Nebraska 1875, Preamble We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, establish this Constitution…

Nevada 1864, Preamble We, the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, establish this Constitution...

New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.

New Jersey 1844, Preamble We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.

New Mexico 1911, Preamble We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty..

New York 1846, Preamble We, the people of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.

North Carolina 1868, Preamble We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those...

North Dakota 1889, Preamble We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...
Ohio 1852, Preamble We, the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common.

Oklahoma 1907, Preamble Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty, establish this
Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences

Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance....

Rhode Island 1842, Preamble We, the People of the State of Rhode Island, grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing...

South Carolina, 1778, Preamble We, the people of he State of South Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

South Dakota 1889, Preamble We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties .

Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...

Texas 1845, Preamble We, the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.

Utah 1896, Preamble Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution.

Vermont 1777, Preamble Whereas all government ought to enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man .

Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other

Washington 1889, Preamble We, the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution

West Virginia 1872, Preamble Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ...

Wisconsin 1848, Preamble We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility...

Wyoming 1890, Preamble We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties, establish this Constitution...

After reviewing acknowledgments of God from all 50 state constitutions, one is faced with the prospect that maybe, the ACLU and the out-of-control federal courts are wrong! If you found this to be 'Food for thought' send to as many as you think will be enlightened as I hope you were.

(Please note that at no time is anyone told that they MUST worship God.)

'Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.' - William Penn BLESSED IS THE NATION WHOSE GOD IS THE LORD .. . PSALM 33:12
GOD BLESS AMERICA


When I read the above piece, I can really feel the hope and love that our founding fathers had for such a great country. I doubt most of our politicians feel this sort of love. That is evident with the blatant disregard for our constitution shown today.

As for the bible telling us we can never attain the perfection of Jesus, that is true. There must be a hierarchy in everything, God, Country, Churches, and even our own households (you can't have two kings). We are told to be Christlike-however it is not expected of us to attain His perfection-because we are only human and never will. If we did-what use would we have for a higher power? I just do the best I can and I believe Jesus loves us for that. When I fall from grace, I have the peace of mind knowing He won't leave me. I can ask for forgiveness, and know it is there every time. Some of my posts here have not rendered me the most godly type of person to some and Im ok with that, but I know in my heart He still loves me, and that is so comforting. I wish everyone had at least that to fall back on....

I wish you nothing but the best. We are all dancing here on this earth for a short time, trying to live our lives and do the best we can. If we put God first-thats the best we can do and it will show in all other aspects of our lives.

SicNTiredInSoCal, That brought tears to my eyes, thank you.