Thread: Trial will debate 2nd Amendment rights

Trial will debate 2nd Amendment rights
Defendant is accused of having 'militia' weaponry

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=53649

Posted: January 6, 2007
By Bob Unruh
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

A lawyer whose client is on trial for having "militia" weaponry says he'll ask questions and raise arguments about the 2nd Amendment, and then let the judge rule whether or not the Bill of Rights can be discussed in a federal courtroom these days.

A federal prosecutor in the Arkansas case against Hollis Wayne Fincher, 60, who's accused of having homemade and unregistered machine guns, has asked the judge to censor those arguments.

But lawyer Oscar Stilley told WND that he'll go ahead with the arguments.

"I'm going to ask questions, what else can I say?" he said. "There is a 2nd Amendment, and it means something, I hope."

"His (Fincher's) position is that he had a legal right to bear arms that are suitable and customary to contribute to the common defense. If it's a militia army, it's what customarily would be used by the military suitable for the defense of the country," Stilley said.

The objection to constitutional arguments came from Assistant U.S. Attorney Wendy Johnson, who filed a motion several days ago asking U.S. District Judge Jimm Larry Hendren to prevent Fincher and Stilley from raising any such issues.

"Yes, that is correct – the government does not want to allow the defense attorney to argue the law in Mr. Fincher's defense," Michael Gaddy wrote on Freedom Watch.

"If a defendant is not allowed to base his/her defense on the Constitution, the supreme law of the land, we are certainly doomed. If we allow these criminal acts perpetrated on law-abiding citizens to continue, we might as well turn in all our guns and scheduled a fitting for our chains," he wrote.

"Yes, Hollis Wayne Fincher goes on trial on January 8th – but so does our Constitution, our Liberty and our right to own firearms. If Mr. Fincher loses this battle, we all lose," he said.

Fincher, a lieutenant commander with the Militia of Washington County, is accused of having three unregistered machine guns and an unregistered sawed-off shotgun.

Stilley said his client believes no one has a right to use weapons to hurt somebody else, just as "you can't use words to injure. You can't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater."

He said whether the gun is a .22 caliber used for "plinking," or a cape buffalo killer, you cannot put it in a position where it's pointed at someone and pull the trigger.

It's about responsibilities that accompany the rights outlined in the Constitution's Bill of Rights, he said.

The motion seeking to suppress any constitutional arguments will be handled by making his arguments, and letting the government make its objections, and then letting the court rule.

The motion from the federal prosecution indicated the government believes Fincher wants to argue the gun charges are unconstitutional, but it is asking that the court keep such decisions out of the jury's hands.

The government also demanded to know the items the defense intends to use as evidence, the results of any physical examinations of Fincher and all of the witnesses and their statements.

Fincher was arrested Nov. 8 and has been held in custody since then on a bond of $250,000 and other conditions that included posting the deed to his home with the court and electronic monitoring.

Police said two of the .308-caliber machine guns, homemade versions of a Browning model 1919, allegedly had Fincher's name inscribed on them and said "Amendment 2 invoked."

There have been laws since 1934 making it illegal for residents of the United States to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. Treasury Department. Federal law allows the public to own machine guns made and registered before 1986 under certain conditions.

Comments posted online with an area newspaper offered some support for Fincher's side of the case.

"When the government decides that your spare bedroom [can be regulated] as greatly affecting interstate commerce and makes you put a homeless person or work release prisoner in that spare room, then you'll understand why property not actually affecting interstate commerce should not be regulated on by the feds," said Lawful Machine Gun Owner.

DKSuddeth noted that the commerce clause, cited as support for gun regulations, should be studied. "Take a very close read on how the commerce clause is used by congress and the decisions that the courts have made. You do realize that using the commerce clause, congress can regulate ANYTHING that you may wish to grow on your own personal property?"

Another observer cited the statements attributed to Tenche Cose, a government official during the 1790s. "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? … Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American."

Another observer, this one a critic who called himself "Blah Blah Blah," added the other perspective. "You give us a clear picture of why the government wants to limit arguments in the case. You guys cannot quit talking. And you insist on quoting every dead white guy in history."

Fincher, in a letter from his jail cell that was published on a blog, said he was doing fine.

"I am doing OK here in jail. It's not where I want to be, but it's where I am and I try to make the best of it," he wrote to family and friends. He said the conditions were tolerable.

"We can attend in house church a couple times a week, sometimes more. I talk to other prisoners about their need for Jesus to save them. Some take heed and are willing to listen and some go to their cells and pray," he said.

Authorities said the arrest culminated an eight-month investigation that included having a undercover agent attend meetings of the militia. The investigation was collectively conducted by the ATF, FBI, Washington County Sheriff's Department, Fayetteville Police Department, Springdale Police Department, Arkansas State Police, Arkansas State Bomb Squad and the Madison County Sheriff's Department.

According to criminologist and researcher Gary Kleck, an estimated 2.5 million Americans use guns for defensive purposes each year, with one in six believing someone would have been dead if they had not resorted to their defensive use of firearms.

Another observer, this one a critic who called himself "Blah Blah Blah," added the other perspective. "You give us a clear picture of why the government wants to limit arguments in the case. You guys cannot quit talking. And you insist on quoting every dead white guy in history."

And would those dead, white guys happen to be the very dead, white guys who gave this dipwad his FREEDOMS????

And, furthermore.........WHY THE RACIAL COMMENT?

This case needs watching!

"....the government does not want to allow the defense attorney to argue the law in Mr. Fincher's defense," Michael Gaddy wrote on Freedom Watch.

"If a defendant is not allowed to base his/her defense on the Constitution, the supreme law of the land, we are certainly doomed.

Well that is certainly understandable on the part of the current government. They cannot have courts throughout the land using Constitutional Law when in fact they are shoving it out the door and International Law down our throats.

"Yes, Hollis Wayne Fincher goes on trial on January 8th – but so does our Constitution, our Liberty and our right to own firearms. If Mr. Fincher loses this battle, we all lose," he said.

Yes but we will know the truth regarding what law is now functioning in the courts of this nation won't we. Those in power have to bury the Constitution because it stands squarely between them and the completion of their goal so they can all retire on the personal profit wrenched from our tax dollars and the greatest fraud ever perpetrated in human history.

The motion seeking to suppress any constitutional arguments will be handled by making his arguments, and letting the government make its objections, and then letting the court rule.

"ANY Constitutional arguments" ... hmmm very telling statement.

The motion from the federal prosecution indicated the government believes Fincher wants to argue the gun charges are unconstitutional, but it is asking that the court keep such decisions out of the jury's hands.

Again a very telling statement. But of course that would imply the validity of the Constitution and throw out the basis of their entire argument.

There have been laws since 1934 making it illegal for residents of the United States to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. Treasury Department.

Rather significant date I would think.

Federal law allows the public to own machine guns made and registered before 1986 under certain conditions.

Is self defense when the country is being invaded one of those conditions?

"

"Take a very close read on how the commerce clause is used by congress and the decisions that the courts have made. You do realize that using the commerce clause, congress can regulate ANYTHING that you may wish to grow on your own personal property?"

Yep but its not Constitutionally legal is it?

Another observer cited the statements attributed to Tenche Cose, a government official during the 1790s. "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? … Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American."

Emphasis should be added to this statement. I venture to say one of these people would say times change and the law of the land two hundred fifty years ago is not relevant in today's society. I would counter that it is entirely relevant since we are now again fighting the same battle the colonists came here to escape and our founding documents sought to prevent ever happening again.

Authorities said the arrest culminated an eight-month investigation that included having a undercover agent attend meetings of the militia. The investigation was collectively conducted by the ATF, FBI, Washington County Sheriff's Department, Fayetteville Police Department, Springdale Police Department, Arkansas State Police, Arkansas State Bomb Squad and the Madison County Sheriff's Department.

Well its clear who signed on to the DHS bribes isn't it.

The "well armed militia" for purposes of defending this nation from invasion is part of the history of the founding of this nation. It is unfortunate that the writers of the Constitution took it so much for granted that they did not spell it out clearer. the Militia of the Several States and its purpose is stated clearly in the founding documents. I guess a well armed militia would be a problem if you were intent upon finishing your coupe de taunt which is why the people of our generation never head diddle squat about it.



Interesting article I will be curious to see 1. if the jury gets to hear all arguments and 2. the decision regarding the use of the Constitution Law as a defense in this nation is still an option.

If not then the writer is absolutely correct. All is lost.

I just hope that Americans are still American enough to stand up for what Americans used to believe in!

The bill of rights is NOT a gift from the government!

The bill of rights is NOT a gift from the government!

added some emphasis on that statement Altura

For those of you who are interested the book called "The second Amendment Primer" by Les Adams is a good little book to have.

Here is another article on the same trial.

January 04, 2007 Special Edition!

On Monday, January 8th in Federal court in Fayetteville, Arkansas, Liberty and the Constitution, represented by Hollis Wayne Fincher, are being put on trial by the jackbooted thugs at the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms Explosives (BATFE) Yes, these are the same criminals responsible for the murders and other malicious acts at Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Mr. Fincher, age 60, was arrested on the morning of November 8 following a raid on his home involving federal agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) and FBI and assisted by Washington County Sheriff's Office, Fayetteville Police Department, Springdale Police Department, Arkansas State Police, Arkansas State Bomb Squad and the Madison County Sheriff's Department. Mr. Fincher was charged with possession of a firearm in violation of the National Firearms Act of 1934.

Fincher, a renowned constitutionalist, Lt. Commander of the Washington County Arkansas Militia and co-author of a document entitled The Silver Bullet; a treatise on the unconstitutionality of the Federal Firearms Act of 1934, has no previous criminal record.

At the core of Mr. Fincher’s arrest may be a diabolical scheme by the Washington County, Arkansas local and county governments to implement laws and regulations that are straight out of the United Nations Agenda 21 program. It appears the “investigation” into Mr. Fincher’s allegedly illegal firearms originated about the same time Fincher and others began to protest to local government their proposed adoption of laws that infringe on private property rights.

Hollis Wayne Fincher is an imposing man, both physically and intellectually. He intimidated those in local government with his vastly superior knowledge of the US and State of Arkansas Constitutions to the point that when he stood to speak (with permission) at the hearings to protest their proposed unconstitutional laws, he would have a sheriff’s deputy stand beside him; something to which no one else in attendance was subjected.

Mr. Fincher and Don Bright have been able, through their presence and knowledge, to expose the countywide zoning scam of those in the local government of Washington County. The day after Mr. Fincher’s arrest, the council met in “emergency” meeting where the questionable zoning ordinance was passed with only one reading.

A local radio personality, fellow soldier and constitutionalist in the fight against the proposed zoning ordinance, Mr. Don Bright, stated on his radio show after the arrest of Mr. Fincher that he believed the “coincidental” arrest could have originated in the highest offices of Washington County. At the emergency meeting, the County Judge accused Mr. Bright of linking him to the arrest; when Mr. Bright protested, he was forcibly removed from the meeting by three deputy sheriffs. The questionable zoning ordinance was then passed.

When Hollis Wayne Fincher was arraigned on the “illegal” gun charges, it was learned the BATFE had placed an undercover plant in one of the militia meetings. Acting as an agent provocateur, this plant had suggested, “judges be awakened with a gun barrel in their mouths” to which Mr. Fincher had replied “Be careful what you say, this building might be bugged.” Magistrate, Beverly Stites-Jones clairvoyantly replied, “Obviously Mr. Fincher agreed with the idea” and said “that’s what he’s thinking right now” and “I have a fear and do they intend to follow through.” She did not elaborate on whom she meant by “they.”

At the arraignment, BATFE Special Agent Wade Vittitow stated under oath, “the arrest was not about the militia,” although a total of 14 search warrants were issued to search the homes of other militia members. Several allegedly “illegal” firearms were found during these searches but no one was arrested but Mr. Fincher.

During the same arraignment process, five illegal aliens were arraigned on various drug (meth) charges and an additional illegal was charged with identity theft. A court appointed interpreter was brought in to insure the accused understood the charges against them. All six were released on their own recognizance while Mr. Fincher has been held in jail since the arraignment in lieu of $250,000 bond and the condition he move out of his home and into his daughter’s home, post the deed to his private property with the court, give up all his weapons, not attend any militia meetings, and be subjected to electronic monitoring.

Ironically, late last week, Assistant US Attorney Wendy Johnson, filed a motion with the court requesting the judge not allow any defense arguments based on the US Constitution or jury nullification! Yes, that is correct—the government does not want to allow the defense attorney to use the supreme law of the land in Mr. Fincher’s defense.

If a defendant is not allowed to base his/her defense on the Constitution, we are certainly doomed. If we allow these criminal acts perpetrated on law-abiding citizens to continue, we might as well turn in all our guns and schedule a fitting for our chains

Yes, Hollis Wayne Fincher goes on trial on January 8th—but so does our Constitution, our Liberty and our right to own firearms. If Mr. Fincher loses this battle, we all lose.

(Editor's Note: Lew Rockwell refused to publish this, giving no reason. What a shame... )

http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/07/01/04/gaddy.htm

Why do I think we will be reading more and more and more of these stories in the very near future. The move has begun. It seems to me that the American Citizen is the last to be informed. The enemy of the state is not the illegal immigrant but in fact the legal citizens of this nation.

And despite the disclaimer it seems to me that the purpose of the whole bailywick is to put the fear of God into the small militia (why else so many warrants and were their guns confiscated?)

Sad times ahead I fear.