Thread: Green Card BENEFITS! Everything but the right to vote...

Nowadays it has become way easier
for the authorities to deny a GC holder
entry or have it taken away after.

In the past, the only way to lose your GC was
to stay outside the US for a period of time longer
than 12 months.
These days Immigration officials have
the discretion to detain anyone at the
airport.

I know someone who has been a permanent
resident for a long time and he used to go
back to his native country at least twice a year
with no problems. Two years ago he was detained
at MIA because the database showed he had commited
a misdemeanor in the past. He was kept in a special
room until his brother could fax to ICE a copy of
the case proving that he had complied with the court
orders in CA.

Originally Posted by Chexfive

Gorwell wrote:

I would say the majority of green card holders are actually people we need. Remember that the horrible education system cant even keep up with the demand for engineer's and other high to medium paying jobs.

Not true. There are plenty of engineer's and other high to medium jobs that Americans would love to fill. Just talked to an engineer the other day. Due to this sort of program and outsourcing the American engineer's are overlooked for the CHEAP foriegn engineer's. There is an American worker for every job, if you want to pay the right wages which is good for America. I've heard from plenty of engineer's over the last decade that say this is just a myth. It's all about money, don't be fooled!

I love those "my friend"stories that are used as the basis of an explanation.


Yes its true. Their is a drain in various industries, look it up. Those foreign workers are not paid "cheap" rates.

Just from wikipedia:

# 55% of Ph.D. students in engineering in the United States are foreign born (2004).[1]
# Between 1980 and 2000, the percentage of Ph.D. scientists and engineers employed in the United States who were born abroad has increased from 24% to 37%.[1]
# 45% of Ph.D. physicists working in the United States are foreign born (2004).[1]
# 80% of total post-doctoral chemical and materials engineering in the United States are foreign-born (198.[2]
# At the undergraduate level, US-born engineering students constitute upwards of 90-95% of the student population since most foreign born candidates for engineering graduate schools are trained in their home countries. Yet, the size of the pool of BS engineering graduates with US citizenship is much larger than the number who apply to engineering graduate schools including foreign born engineers and scientist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_born

OH in the same article they had a"1993 Median Salaries of U.S. Recipients of Ph.D.s in Science and Engineering: Foreign-Born vs. Native-Born". Foreign-born made more money.

This is a well publicized phenomenon attributed to poor preparation in mathematics and other subjects in US high schools.

As for your last statement that is marxist drivel. "right wages that is right for america"oh my, and who decides those wages, the president? congress? you? your friend?

Remember its the unfair minimum wage law that displaces americas lowest skilled worker whose only advantage is their cost advantage.

Originally Posted by GOrwell

Originally Posted by Chexfive

Gorwell wrote:

I would say the majority of green card holders are actually people we need. Remember that the horrible education system cant even keep up with the demand for engineer's and other high to medium paying jobs.

Not true. There are plenty of engineer's and other high to medium jobs that Americans would love to fill. Just talked to an engineer the other day. Due to this sort of program and outsourcing the American engineer's are overlooked for the CHEAP foriegn engineer's. There is an American worker for every job, if you want to pay the right wages which is good for America. I've heard from plenty of engineer's over the last decade that say this is just a myth. It's all about money, don't be fooled!

I love those "my friend"stories that are used as the basis of an explanation.


Yes its true. Their is a drain in various industries, look it up. Those foreign workers are not paid "cheap" rates.

Just from wikipedia:
[quote:2mifkctb]# 55% of Ph.D. students in engineering in the United States are foreign born (2004).[1]
# Between 1980 and 2000, the percentage of Ph.D. scientists and engineers employed in the United States who were born abroad has increased from 24% to 37%.[1]
# 45% of Ph.D. physicists working in the United States are foreign born (2004).[1]
# 80% of total post-doctoral chemical and materials engineering in the United States are foreign-born (198.[2]
# At the undergraduate level, US-born engineering students constitute upwards of 90-95% of the student population since most foreign born candidates for engineering graduate schools are trained in their home countries. Yet, the size of the pool of BS engineering graduates with US citizenship is much larger than the number who apply to engineering graduate schools including foreign born engineers and scientist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_born

OH in the same article they had a"1993 Median Salaries of U.S. Recipients of Ph.D.s in Science and Engineering: Foreign-Born vs. Native-Born". Foreign-born made more money.

This is a well publicized phenomenon attributed to poor preparation in mathematics and other subjects in US high schools.

As for your last statement that is marxist drivel. "right wages that is right for america"oh my, and who decides those wages, the president? congress? you? your friend?

Remember its the unfair minimum wage law that displaces americas lowest skilled worker whose only advantage is their cost advantage.[/quote:2mifkctb]

Wikipedia is not a valid source in this forum.

Originally Posted by odiesback

Originally Posted by GOrwell

Originally Posted by Chexfive

Gorwell wrote:

I would say the majority of green card holders are actually people we need. Remember that the horrible education system cant even keep up with the demand for engineer's and other high to medium paying jobs.

Not true. There are plenty of engineer's and other high to medium jobs that Americans would love to fill. Just talked to an engineer the other day. Due to this sort of program and outsourcing the American engineer's are overlooked for the CHEAP foriegn engineer's. There is an American worker for every job, if you want to pay the right wages which is good for America. I've heard from plenty of engineer's over the last decade that say this is just a myth. It's all about money, don't be fooled!

I love those "my friend"stories that are used as the basis of an explanation.


Yes its true. Their is a drain in various industries, look it up. Those foreign workers are not paid "cheap" rates.

Just from wikipedia:
[quote:2cviv3ed]# 55% of Ph.D. students in engineering in the United States are foreign born (2004).[1]
# Between 1980 and 2000, the percentage of Ph.D. scientists and engineers employed in the United States who were born abroad has increased from 24% to 37%.[1]
# 45% of Ph.D. physicists working in the United States are foreign born (2004).[1]
# 80% of total post-doctoral chemical and materials engineering in the United States are foreign-born (198.[2]
# At the undergraduate level, US-born engineering students constitute upwards of 90-95% of the student population since most foreign born candidates for engineering graduate schools are trained in their home countries. Yet, the size of the pool of BS engineering graduates with US citizenship is much larger than the number who apply to engineering graduate schools including foreign born engineers and scientist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_born

OH in the same article they had a"1993 Median Salaries of U.S. Recipients of Ph.D.s in Science and Engineering: Foreign-Born vs. Native-Born". Foreign-born made more money.

This is a well publicized phenomenon attributed to poor preparation in mathematics and other subjects in US high schools.

As for your last statement that is marxist drivel. "right wages that is right for america"oh my, and who decides those wages, the president? congress? you? your friend?

Remember its the unfair minimum wage law that displaces americas lowest skilled worker whose only advantage is their cost advantage.

Wikipedia is not a valid source in this forum.[/quote:2cviv3ed]

okay: here you go: http://www7.nationalacademies.org/oc...eers_to_US.asp

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=POD292

Green Card holders sure get alot more benefits and rights than most Americans do.

Originally Posted by GOrwell

Originally Posted by Chexfive

Gorwell wrote:

I would say the majority of green card holders are actually people we need. Remember that the horrible education system cant even keep up with the demand for engineer's and other high to medium paying jobs.

Not true. There are plenty of engineer's and other high to medium jobs that Americans would love to fill. Just talked to an engineer the other day. Due to this sort of program and outsourcing the American engineer's are overlooked for the CHEAP foriegn engineer's. There is an American worker for every job, if you want to pay the right wages which is good for America. I've heard from plenty of engineer's over the last decade that say this is just a myth. It's all about money, don't be fooled!

I love those "my friend"stories that are used as the basis of an explanation.


Yes its true. Their is a drain in various industries, look it up. Those foreign workers are not paid "cheap" rates.







Forgive me for butting in here, but I have to agree with this statement.

When I look around and see illegal alien construction foremen earning $25-$30.00/ hour. Or know that illegal alien carpenters are pulling down $18.00 - $20.00/ hr while laborers average $12.00 - $15.00/ hr. Or see foreign tech workers living in the same neighborhood of million dollar homes that my friends live in........I ask myself if that is considered "cheap labor"

To me that does not constitute cheap labor by any stretch so then I guess the question becomes how we define that term?

Do we define it based upon wages paid to fast food workers, hotel maids, or others working in jobs that are unskilled and have always paid a lower wage?

Or, do we define it based upon the others I have mentioned?

Either way, another question arises and that is....just what wages would be acceptable? Would it be reasonable to expect, say $13.50/hr, to take orders at McDonald's? $40.00/hr to work as a carpenter? $60.00/hr as a foreman?

Can you imagine what wages like these would do to prices? So where, exactly, do we draw the line between what is considered a living wage, an acceptable wage, to us and what isn't?

Originally Posted by GOrwell

Originally Posted by odiesback

Originally Posted by GOrwell

Originally Posted by Chexfive

Gorwell wrote:

I would say the majority of green card holders are actually people we need. Remember that the horrible education system cant even keep up with the demand for engineer's and other high to medium paying jobs.

Not true. There are plenty of engineer's and other high to medium jobs that Americans would love to fill. Just talked to an engineer the other day. Due to this sort of program and outsourcing the American engineer's are overlooked for the CHEAP foriegn engineer's. There is an American worker for every job, if you want to pay the right wages which is good for America. I've heard from plenty of engineer's over the last decade that say this is just a myth. It's all about money, don't be fooled!

I love those "my friend"stories that are used as the basis of an explanation.


Yes its true. Their is a drain in various industries, look it up. Those foreign workers are not paid "cheap" rates.

Just from wikipedia:
[quote:1ktfgrx2]# 55% of Ph.D. students in engineering in the United States are foreign born (2004).[1]
# Between 1980 and 2000, the percentage of Ph.D. scientists and engineers employed in the United States who were born abroad has increased from 24% to 37%.[1]
# 45% of Ph.D. physicists working in the United States are foreign born (2004).[1]
# 80% of total post-doctoral chemical and materials engineering in the United States are foreign-born (198.[2]
# At the undergraduate level, US-born engineering students constitute upwards of 90-95% of the student population since most foreign born candidates for engineering graduate schools are trained in their home countries. Yet, the size of the pool of BS engineering graduates with US citizenship is much larger than the number who apply to engineering graduate schools including foreign born engineers and scientist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_born

OH in the same article they had a"1993 Median Salaries of U.S. Recipients of Ph.D.s in Science and Engineering: Foreign-Born vs. Native-Born". Foreign-born made more money.

This is a well publicized phenomenon attributed to poor preparation in mathematics and other subjects in US high schools.

As for your last statement that is marxist drivel. "right wages that is right for america"oh my, and who decides those wages, the president? congress? you? your friend?

Remember its the unfair minimum wage law that displaces americas lowest skilled worker whose only advantage is their cost advantage.

Wikipedia is not a valid source in this forum.

okay: here you go: http://www7.nationalacademies.org/oc...eers_to_US.asp

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=POD292[/quote:1ktfgrx2]


I agree with you and this is a very interesting testimony.

It is worthy noting that China has been stealing US technology
for decades. Another big time spy has just been arrested in
Orange County, CA.

I firmly believe that we need to focus on Education and
we should recruit the brightest. Remember Einstein?

GOrwell,

Yes, the US does have a problem with their education system, I won't deny that, but not all states have the same problem. It depends upon the relative wealth of the state; town/cities; the population mix and other things. Its not quite as clear cut as you think. Also you have to realize, any study/report can be presented however the presenter wants to slant it.

Colleges, at least quite a few today, have replaced the high school education of previous generations. There are so many that now are have to hold classes in basic courses, such as reading/comprehension,writing, algebra. There are many reasons for this that I won't go into.

You are wrong when you say that importing engineers, doctors, etc. do not undermine the wages and standard of living within the US. It does, it also takes away jobs from American citizens. When students see, that fields are not as open or paying as much as they used to, they rethink their idea of that field........especially one's with financial/status thinking. It won't affect the curious in a field, they will still go into it because of some inner drive. I am not saying that we shouldn't encourage immigration from well educated peoples, we should, but not to an extent that it harms citizens in those fields. There has to be an equal balance in the equation.

Too date the only ones seeing benefit from the importation, are the immigrant, who lives and receives much better than he could at his home country, and the employer. You may disagree, but for the most part, imported workers do more harm to displaced workers, and you do get paid less than that former American worker for the most part.

When I look around and see illegal alien construction foremen earning $25-$30.00/ hour. Or know that illegal alien carpenters are pulling down $18.00 - $20.00/ hr while laborers average $12.00 - $15.00/ hr. Or see foreign tech workers living in the same neighborhood of million dollar homes that my friends live in........I ask myself if that is considered "cheap labor"

I don't know your age, but it seems you haven't been around the workforce that long if you think $20 an hour is alot of money.
I made $18/hr in 1983 working as a roofer with 5 years experience. I know several electrical foremen doing commercial electrical right now making $18 to $22 an hour when they made $28 to $30 an hour in 1995. I'm also in an area where electricians are in high demand. My step father made better than $20 an hour back in 1978 as a commerical carpenter foreman.

I don't have the link to the study I read the other day but it offered this.
An American worker making $35,000 in 1980 would have to be making $135,000 today to keep up with the cost of inflation and other rising cost. So in essence workers would need to make 4 times what they did in 1980 to keep the same lifestyle as they had in 1980.

NOW!

As for your last statement that is marxist drivel. "right wages that is right for america"oh my, and who decides those wages, the president? congress? you? your friend?

I'll tell you who decides the wages, the market place does but this only works when all employers are held to the same standards, which isn't happening right now with this illegal and mass importation of immigrants in the marketplace. Just as Businesses that don't hire illegal immigrants are on an unlevel playing field competing with companies that do, American workers are on faced with the unlevel playing field with the illegal competition. Labor and workers are commodities the same as anything else is in a free market enviroment. The only thing is, we're not in a free market. A free market is one where all businesses have the same opportunities, advantages and disadvantages, not one business jacked up by government-private partnerships which places an unfair advantage to certian businesses and not all businesses. Not one that offers tax rebates for tire company "a" to stay located in a certian county while not giving tire company "b" the same deal. This picking and choosing is not free markets at work. The same thing goes for illegal labor injected into the work force. I could make a hell of a car sales business if I go steal cars while my competetion can't. I can put you out of the business of building homes if the government gives me a tax break of $10,000 per house to keep my headquarters in the county and not your company. Its the same kind of corruption going on in the work force and in government. In the past it has been left up to the market place, businesses and government to be responsible stewards of employee pay, the only problem here is everyone has a say except the worker which happens to be the ones making the trillions in profits for the corporations. Since the adults have left the room its up to the (all) workers to make sure they get what they deserve. That means telling the companies hell no in masses and shutting down businesses if nessacery, we are not going to work for slave wages.

America wants more American engineers, pay them more money and they shall recieve more engineers. One study says foriegn engineers hurt the American workers another one says differntly. Bills Gates says he just wants the best engineers for his company and that bringing in foreigners is good for America. well, what he means by America is his bottom line. So he doesn't have a unbiased opinion and neither do these universities that have an interest in making their words true. All this spouting about global this and that. Europe didn't want it and we don't either. The only people that push and want globalism are those making money off of it which there are very few getting rich and many more getting poorer. Thats the marxist drivel right there. Only the globalist know whats best for everyone aye?