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Thread: Heritage Foundation Drafted NAFTA, President Trump Can Scrap It

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  1. #21
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Trust me, I've done a ton of research on the so-called fair tax plan. To claim I know nothing is more about your failure of observation than it is about my knowledge. Do yourself a favor and venture of the pro-fair tax sites and expand your subject knowledge. Have a nice day.
    I don't venture onto any sites. See that's the thing, you can never articulate a thing about it. You just post links to the Anti-FairTax Lobby Websites and claim it "destroys the middle class", which is the mantra of the Anti-FairTax Lobby. How could a 23% retail national sales tax with a rebate for essentials up to the Household Consumption Allowance destroy the middle class? It's the most absurd thing I've ever heard!! That's why I know you don't know anything about the FairTax. And there's not even that much to know. If you're a retailer, you send 23% of your sales prices less your fee for the service you provide and send it to the state once a mont with any state sales taxes you owe, don't worry about it for another month. If you aren't a retailer, you don't do anything.

    A dream come true. That's what the FairTax is, A DREAM COME TRUE!!
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Why?
    Because it doesn't give the big boys/special interest groups enough wiggle room to get their 'goodies'.

    Again, I'm not against it totally. It is a really good idea in theory.

    Getting it into law, it will be something we won't even recognize.

    Again, I don't like the prebates. That is going to put each and every American/family on the government receiving end.

    I don't think that is a good idea. It develops a mindset that is not healthy. It gives the politicians a fishhook to use as a threat.

  3. #23
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    I don't venture onto any sites. See that's the thing, you can never articulate a thing about it. You just post links to the Anti-FairTax Lobby Websites and claim it "destroys the middle class", which is the mantra of the Anti-FairTax Lobby. How could a 23% retail national sales tax with a rebate for essentials up to the Household Consumption Allowance destroy the middle class? It's the most absurd thing I've ever heard!! That's why I know you don't know anything about the FairTax. And there's not even that much to know. If you're a retailer, you send 23% of your sales prices less your fee for the service you provide and send it to the state once a mont with any state sales taxes you owe, don't worry about it for another month. If you aren't a retailer, you don't do anything.

    A dream come true. That's what the FairTax is, A DREAM COME TRUE!!
    Judy, nobody on ALIPAC obviously has as much free time on their hands as you do. I post information and their links because it's quicker. Additionally, by providing a link to my resource insures there are no questions as to where my information is coming from or the embedded facts. You on the other hand tend to editorialize and paraphrase someone else's words and pass them off as your own. You frequently provide data that you recovered from a source, but seldom provide us with the link for verification. That tactic sometimes provides more questions than it does answers. It also prevents folks from questioning your information source.

    I recognize most of your talking points because I've seen them on fair tax dot org. Furthermore, I've read the fair tax bill from beginning to end. My reading of the bill is what jump-started my thorough research of the plan. After reading the bill, I had a lot of questions that needed answers. We'll, my research provided those answers and it wasn't pretty. That's why I highly encourage everyone that has an interest to do their own research. I don't want them listening to you or me, but doing their own research. If they do that, I have no doubt they'll come to the same conclusion I did.

    Oh, the tax is 30%, not 23%. The fuzzy math is one of the first things about the plan that jump out at you. Please spare me the 23% mythical based explanation because it has been debunked by almost everyone outside of fair tax dot org.

    http://www.fairtaxfraud.com/fallout.asp

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  4. #24
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    MW, if you read the bill then you know the rate is 23%, not 30%. The 23% rate is split, 14.91% for General Revenue and 8.09% earmarked for Social Security and Medicare.
    Last edited by Judy; 12-07-2016 at 04:45 AM.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nntrixie View Post
    Because it doesn't give the big boys/special interest groups enough wiggle room to get their 'goodies'.

    Again, I'm not against it totally. It is a really good idea in theory.

    Getting it into law, it will be something we won't even recognize.

    Again, I don't like the prebates. That is going to put each and every American/family on the government receiving end.

    I don't think that is a good idea. It develops a mindset that is not healthy. It gives the politicians a fishhook to use as a threat.
    Yeah, the rebate is a precalculated uniform refund, and I realize some people don't like the idea of other people getting a refund check from the government. Yet, Americans line up in droves at tax preparation companies and tax accountants waiting with bated breath for their income tax refund checks from the government. So for those who don't like that idea, they can pass on signing up for it. It's not mandatory. It's purely up to the head of household whether to apply for it or not.

    I'd personally rather see them eliminate the rebate and lower the rates, but I know why they have it in there, it's replacing the personal tax and dependent deductions everyone enjoys now under the income tax. I hear no complaints with those deductions and it's the same thing for the same purpose, to exempt essentials with a fixed pre-calculated uniform amount. The monthly FairTax rebate gets you your money back sooner rather than letting the government sit on your money for a year or more interest free until you file an income tax return to get it back the way it is now.

    You're from Texas, right? And I noticed MW is also from Texas back in the day. Texas is one of 7 states that has no income tax. The states without an income tax are Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. 2 others have no income tax on wages, but collect on interest and dividends which still requires filing an income tax return, the main thing FairTax supporters want to get rid of.

    These states do well without an income tax. So it would seem that people from states with no state income tax would readily see the benefit of repealing the federal income tax and replacing it with a national sales tax. It's great for business, great for production companies, great for workers and earners, simplifies everything, gets rid of the income tax return, pays the retailers and states who collect it a fee for their service, and exempts essentials from federal tax through the rebate system for any citizen or legal resident who wants to sign up for it. What's good for the goose ought to be good for the gander. Seems to me.

    I don't know where the idea of exempting essentials from federal tax came from, probably the Democrats who passed the income tax to begin with, but I have no problem getting rid of that concept at some point. I've opposed the personal and dependent deductions on the income tax along with mortgage interest, since I started working decades ago. My view of it has always been why should a big family pay less income tax when they clearly use more services than a small family? And why should someone who chooses to rent a nice apartment in the city close to work pay more than someone who chooses to live 45 minutes away in the suburbs and bought a house when the person owning the house uses more services than the renter in the city? It all sounded communist and ass-backwards to me.

    But people seem pretty hooked to those ideas and that's why it's the same way in the FairTax legislation to avoid proposing those changes at the same time as they pass the new legislation. The primary purpose of the FairTax is to eliminate tax on income to get rid of having to file income tax returns which makes everyone freer, happier, less stressed, more productive and saves hundreds of billions of dollars a year in non-productive time and money spent on filing income tax returns.

    As to how the final bill comes out of Congress really doesn't matter, the mission is achieved with the statutory repeal of the federal income tax and instituting a national retail sales tax to replace the revenue.

    People who work in the income tax return industry of course oppose it, it would shut down that industry, but that industry has made a lot of money, billions a year off the misery of US taxpayers, so they can use their computer and math skills to go do something else that contributes to the economy instead of sucks off of it, and their owners can invest in manufacturing or other lines of productive endeavors.
    Last edited by Judy; 12-07-2016 at 04:44 AM.
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