Thread: Hypothesis: Massive Amnesty Is Granted, Then What?

It's no wonder that Obama is pro amnesty...from what I've been reading he's an illegal immigrant himself! Not only is he not qualified to be President of the U.S. he's also not eligible! Why didn't we check him out, was it because he's black and we were afraid it'd start a race riot?

Remember, CIR is not just amnesty, it will also triple legal immigration, millions more foreigners overseas will be coming in on green cards also. Basically it would tell foreigners we have no borders, green cards would be easy to get, and if there is any kind of wait for them forget the green card, come in illegally, and wait for the next amnesty. In 20 years there will be more foreign born and anchor babies in the US than real Americans.

One more Amnesty will change the face of America forever!!!

Until the "State of National Emergency" is undeclared we will continue to live in a dictatorship. It is just that simple. The odds are that since Obama is not legally eligible and will not pass the new laws that will require him to prove his citizenship for reelection...he will probably use the state of war clause that says that no new elections will happen thereby allowing him and congress to stay in office indefinitely.


State of national emergency From Source Watch

"According to the United States Constitution, Article 1, only Congress shall make federal law. However, since the War and Emergency Powers Act of 1933, every president has usurped lawmaking powers. Their 'laws' are called Executive Orders (EOs). These EOs, not our Constitution, are what is governing America today. The War and Emergency Powers Act enables ... the president to declare a national emergency, and thereby become a dictator."[1]

"Presidents can also carefully choose their words and declare a war on anything, in order to give them dictatorial control. For example, the War on Drugs makes it possible to use federal authorities, such as FBI, FEMA, BATF, and the military against American citizens. A well-known example is Waco. Another example is Hurricane Opal. After Florida was declared a nation emergency, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) arrived on the scene and residents were placed under marshal law (restricted to the point of not going outside their door). When the federal government does this, it is going against the Constitution. The War and Emergency Powers Act is an unconstitutional act on the part of our government, created so that presidents can bypass Congress, and do whatever they choose."[2]

"It also makes it possible to do away with posse comitatus in cases of 'emergency'. Posse comitatus is what protects American citizens from the military being used against them."[3]
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti ... _emergency

I see a lot of rhetoric about amnesty, and vague references to proposals. A lot of political statements about it means amnesty for all illegal aliens and we of course are all against that. I think we need to engage those proposing amnesty in respectful discussion, and really become familiar with their proposals. Make earnest suggestions that might improve our policies.

I am generally against amnesty for those who are here illegally, but we all must be open to suggestions and consider all alternatives. We became America by seeing the advantage of something other cultures were closed to.

Consider this, that a significant number of American immigrants get their legal status through a lottery. Yes, by chance. Pure random chance. The foreigner pays their $100 and gets a number. If the number is chosen, the foreigner gets to immigrate provided our government can't find dirt against the foreigner. I have experience with this. In many countries, it is nearly impossible to find the dirt.

This random chance immigrant probably knows no english, has limited work skills, and really has no motivation to adopt American principles. They cling to what they know ..... their previous culture, and spend most of their time with others who came from their country. Assimilation is very difficult. When they cannot function here, we really must spend money to take care of them. We cannot just let them starve or kick them out from both a legal and moral sense. It is not their fault that we lacked the disclipline to deny the immigration in the first place. We need to be smarter.

On the other hand, there's another foreigner, who was desperate to leave their country for whatever reason. Years ago, we had nobody to pick lettuce, so we overlooked some immigration laws (both the gov and business) to find someone to pick the lettuce before it spoiled. We overlooked a lot of things that we shouldn't have to let them stay. Some of them were highly useful to our society and found they had a better existance here. Some of them entirely embraced our way of life and show excellent citizen ideals. They learned English, and treat others with respect and concern. An illegal with proven benefit, compared with an unknown random lottery winner. I am certainly willing to consider amnesty in this case. Maybe there are other cases ..... won't know until someone talks about it. It may be very difficult to implement, but it is worth it to consider all alternatives to keep competitive in this world.

My wife is a legal immigrant, about to become a citizen. Those who say there will be a deluge of immigrants if we allow amnesty ..... you are probably correct. Legal immigration is difficult, lots of illegal immigration as an alternative. Just wait for the next round of amnesty. It is worse than you think. America is far from the bastion of happiness a lot of us regard it to be. Immigrants are put on the bottom of the heap. There's a lot who go home. They don't know the language, they don't know the customs ..... all this strange, angry behavior and no money to boot! Now they want to go home and can't afford it, or are forced to steal their comforts because, after all, everyone deserves respect. We need to be smart with our policies, and look for opportunities to improve our society at the same time. We need to do our homework. We need to say, that opening our border is a bad idea, and this is why. We need to say, that granting general amnesty is a bad idea, and this is why. I think you will find your positions are easier to achieve if you really listen to opposing viewpoints and incorporate them when they make sense ..... or at least discuss them if they show promise.

So, again, does anyone really know what the proposed terms of all this amnesty are?

Originally Posted by pourpaix

I think we need to engage those proposing amnesty in respectful discussion, and really become familiar with their proposals. Make earnest suggestions that might improve our policies.

This random chance immigrant probably knows no english, has limited work skills, and really has no motivation to adopt American principles. They cling to what they know ..... their previous culture, and spend most of their time with others who came from their country. Assimilation is very difficult.

On the other hand, there's another foreigner, who was desperate to leave their country for whatever reason. I am certainly willing to consider amnesty in this case.

So, again, does anyone really know what the proposed terms of all this amnesty are?

The terms don't matter. AMNESTY is AMNESTY. Those that break the laws of this country deserve nothing but the boot back to where they came from. I don't care if they came here 100 years ago and lived a perfect life. They broke the law and deserve consequences. do advocate we give the same breaks to murders, child molesters and drug dealers. Drug dealers sell drugs to better their lives. Lost of them live great lives and take an active part in their community. Some even give to charity? yet they get no breaks when the DEA arrest them. They broke the law. Now the deserve to be punished. I don't care how desperate you are to leave your country follow our laws. No one twist a poor guys arm to accept a lottery, they have to apply for these. If you want to come to this country learn to speak the language. if you don't then it is your fault.

I have lived in other countries and learned to speak the language before I went. I also followed their customs and laws. I could not have imagined showing the country that I was a guest in the disrespect by insisting on speaking English, asking the government for favors, or flying the American flag on their soil. There is an old saying here, when in America do as Americans. That show respect for the people and the country.

Assimilating to another country is not that hard if you really care about doing it. My wife had no problem. She took English lessons long before coming here. She studied the culture and dress. She has no problem looking and acting the part of an American citizen. I watch children and adults of every country come to this city and do the same all except the Mexicans and Central Americans. The fact is, they don't care about America. All they want to do is take everything they can get their hands on and more.

Come here legally and learn to be a part of this country. Forget your old country because you are no longer there. As my wife says, its like getting a divorce. You no longer love your former spouse. You don't call their name, you don't want to be with them and you don't have their pictures up all over your house. No one forces you to come to this country so when you make up your mind to immigrate come here and be a part of America, not Mexico or where ever it was you came from. Again, that is respect.

Who cares what the proposal is for amnesty, AMNESTY is not an option. We've been down that path before.

Originally Posted by pourpaix

Consider this, that a significant number of American immigrants get their legal status through a lottery. Yes, by chance. Pure random chance.

Around 5% immigrate this way, although I think it should be zero.

Years ago, we had nobody to pick lettuce,

H2A visa, farmers can get all the pickers they want but don't want to hassle with the paperwork.

Big Tex, we are not so different. The biggest difference is that I was too old and stupid to learn Russian, though I tried and at least learned the polite words. Also, your wife was lucky. I know a lot of legal immigrants, and only a few didn't have problems assimilating. Even spouses. Maybe it is part the Russian heritage, maybe it is part the delusions the Russians have that we are immeasurably rich and live luxurient lives. It's still a better way to accept immigrants over the lottery.

I agree that most illegals don't respect our ways, even though we have a strong affinity to tolerate the beliefs of other cultures. I wouldn't want to live in Ukraine forever ...... nobody is open to any sort of change, and nobody does nothing for anyone, often even for family members. In America, we've taken all these different beliefs and tolerate the really good ones. It's made us rich, though we've lost a lot in the past few decades by closing our minds too often.

Anyway, I am very willing to listen to the terms from those who are proposing amnesty. I may not agree in the end and side with you, but there has been legitimate use of amnesty in connection with a lot of different crimes in the past. And also a lot of travesties, too. Exceptional cases worthy of amnesty don't amount to enough to forbid consideration. Seems the right thing to do to listen, respond, and consider other viewpoints. If small compromises allow my major objective to be fulfilled, then so be it. Why take the risk of being stonewalled and fail?

Originally Posted by pourpaix

Big Tex, we are not so different. The biggest difference is that I was too old and stupid to learn Russian, though I tried and at least learned the polite words. Also, your wife was lucky. I know a lot of legal immigrants, and only a few didn't have problems assimilating. Even spouses. Maybe it is part the Russian heritage, maybe it is part the delusions the Russians have that we are immeasurably rich and live luxurient lives. It's still a better way to accept immigrants over the lottery.

My wife is helping a Russian immigrant here to be in bodybuilding contest. She has assimilated in every way. She had no problem, speaks good English and works as an attorney. We have tons of immigrant friends and not one them had a problem. Chinese come here and insist that their kid are not involve in ESL programs and instead are thrown in to regular classes so they can not be handicapped. This is nothing unusual. They fact is, how bad do you want something.

I spent quite a bit of time in Buenos Aires where my wife is from. I watched the problems in that country. It is a country without an identity. Everyone there is not Argentine, instead they are Italian or Spanish. The old men sit in coffee shops every day speaking Italian. They have been here since WWII. They watch Italian news, Italian soccer and wish they were back in the old country. How is that for respect to a country that opened it's arms when they fled a dictator's rule in WWI? If you love Italy so badly then go home to Italy. Otherwise accept your new country and be grateful and most of all show some respect and assimilate.

My family immigrated here from Scottland. We were some of the first to settle America and among the first 300 to settle Texas. I could care a less about Scottland. That is not my home, my language, my people or my culture. I am American. My wife feels the same. She dropped her old culture, refuses to speak Spanish or Italian and does not care about Argentina despite her whole family being there. She is American now and will die here. Had I made the decision to move to Argentina, I would have done the same my wife did moving here. That would be my home and my heart would be there and not here.

Despite what you say we are not at all alike. I do not care to listen to any plan of amnesty. There is not much to hear as amnesty is just what it is, rewarding criminal behavior. Criminals do not deserve to be rewarded in any form or fashion. They need to be punished and made examples of for those who in the future think they don't have to obey the law of this great country.

Right now this country is having great economic issues. Over 15 million hard working Americans are out of work. It's time this government who is there to represent the interest of America starts putting its own citizens number one. Immigration should be put on hold until we can get Americans that want to work back to work first. After that we can allow others to come here and prosper, as long as the do so LEGALLY.

Ditto bigtex! There is nothing to either listen to or consider regarding amnesty! The answer is no for the very reasons you so eloquently set forth! And why is it that law abiding Americans are always the ones asked to listen and consider the pleas from those who either broke our laws or who sympathize with the plight of those who did, in respect to amnesty.

The criminal invaders are never asked to consider what their actions and demands are doing to the country for which they invaded.

Instead we get hyperbole, hysteria and more lies from those who demand amnesty. Who needs that!

I have listened and I have considered their arguments and that's why I’m against it! There's nothing more to listen to....

Obama is basically buying votes!!! Grant amnesty ,gain a vote! Tax paying Americans will keep struggling to find work as long as we keep paying for the entitlements to the illegal "potential"voters,and the future "potential" voters,that are coming across the border in droves! STAND UP!!!LETS OPPOSE THIS CRAZED PRESIDENT!!!!