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  1. #1
    Senior Member cvangel's Avatar
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    Immigration debate makes messy politics

    Immigration debate makes messy politics
    By Victor Davis Hanson01/13/08 00:00:00
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    With the war in Iraq politically on the backburner, illegal immigration is heating up as a campaign issue. The public wants action, and the candidates are scrambling to react.

    Sen. Hillary Clinton's sure nomination was first questioned when she flubbed an easy debate question about driver's licenses for illegal aliens.

    Sen. John McCain's recovery took off when he backed away from his support of immigration reform that did not first ensure the closure of the border.

    Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani is no longer for "sanctuary cities" that shield illegal aliens from arrest. Like former Gov. Mike Huckabee, he's now a born-again opponent of illegal immigration.

    Former Gov. Mitt Romney assures us that some illegal aliens can be deported within 90 days after he's elected.

    Sen. Barack Obama may talk of "change," but his relative fuzziness about illegal immigration can't last forever, and at some point he will have to offer more specific proposals.

    Some time ago, supporters of open borders lost the debate. The majority of Americans want them closed -- now! They ignore the tired slurs like "anti-immigrant," "racist," "protectionist" and "nativist." And noisy May Day parades with Mexican flags and heated rhetoric from the National Council of La Raza ("The Race") only turn more people off.

    It doesn't do any good, either, for a Mexico City functionary to cry about how mean we are to want a secure border with Mexico. Most Americans also tuned that out long ago.

    They know instead that Mexico cares mostly about sending north those it won't or can't feed and house -- so it can skim off from them billions in remittances once they arrive in the United States.

    Mexico City, of course, could reform the country's laws and economy whenever it wants. But it changes only enough to draw in tourists or Americans looking to buy vacation homes, not to better the lives of millions of its mestizo poor in the heartland.

    The spin masters may think illegal immigration is an issue that pits conservative Republicans against liberal Democrats. But it doesn't always.

    Nowadays, worry about illegal immigration is just as likely to mean that African-Americans are terrified of racist alien gangs in Los Angeles. Asian-Americans are frustrated that their relatives with college degrees wait years to emigrate legally, while thousands without high school diplomas to the south simply break the law to enter the United States.

    And many Mexican-Americans are probably tired of being expected to defend the indefensible of foreign nationals breaking immigration laws simply because they may share an ethnic heritage with illegal aliens.

    To the extent Democratic candidates ignore illegal immigration, or demonize those who worry over hundreds of thousands of new illegal aliens each year, or talk of guest workers and amnesty before they mention closing the borders, it is a losing issue that could alienate millions of voters.

    Democratic candidates can't really claim that redneck racists are rushing to the border to clash with poor campesinos just crossing to better their lives, because many poor Democrats also resent how illegal labor drives down their own wages. It is mostly the American poor and middle class who worry about the sudden influx of thousands who don't speak English and often need public assistance.

    But the Republican candidates have to watch it, too. If blanket amnesty is a losing issue, so also is mass deportation -- the practicality and morality of which are rarely considered by those rightly calling for an end to illegal immigration. Busing every illegal alien back to Mexico right now might resemble the past messy partition of India and Pakistan, and reopen the issue in a way that Democrats can legitimately exploit.

    What then might an astute candidate advocate?

    Close the border now through fencing, more agents, employer sanctions, enforcement of the law and verifiable identification. Restore faith in the melting pot by insisting that new legal arrivals learn English and the customs and protocols of the United States.

    Explain to the Mexican and Central American governments that using the United States to avoid addressing internal problems -- while making easy dollars off the backs of their own expatriate laborers -- is over.

    Finally, deport aliens who have broken the law, are not working or have just arrived. Some illegal aliens will not like the new atmosphere of tough enforcement and will voluntarily go back home. Others may have criminal records or no history of employment and should leave as well.

    But many millions of law-abiding, employed illegal aliens of long residence will wish to stay. We should allow these to remain in the United States while they apply for citizenship -- if they are willing to learn promptly our language and customs.

    Republican candidates must risk angering their base by ruling out mass deportation. Democrats should support closing the border tightly and quickly -- and not cave in to open-borders pressure groups.

    Making these tough choices now is what most voters want. The candidates of both parties in the next few months will either adjust accordingly or lose elections.
    Victor Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University. You can reach him by visiting www.victorhanson.com.
    http://www.fresnobee.com/columnists/han ... 18865.html

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    "But many millions of law-abiding, employed illegal aliens of long residence will wish to stay. We should allow these to remain in the United States while they apply for citizenship -- if they are willing to learn promptly our language and customs."


    WRONG ANSWER

    Allowing even 1 to stay is AMNESTY and there can be no
    reward for breaking the law , Besides it is unfair to anyone
    from another country that is waiting in line to do it the right way.

    This just opens the door for millions more to sneak in and wait for the
    next amnesty

  3. #3
    Senior Member SOSADFORUS's Avatar
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    NO AMNESTY!!! McCain only got the fence part right, the Demacrates have gotten none of it right.....guess we have to keep drumming it into their stubborn heads, if you don't like the english language, you don't want to live in America so get out!!!

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    Senior Member greyparrot's Avatar
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    Allowing even 1 to stay is AMNESTY
    Not only that (and I agree 100%), but it further blurs of the lines regarding who is here legally, and who is not. Remember, not only would our government allow these people to cut to the front of the line, but they would ALSO be waiving basic requirements, such as the ability to speak and understand english.

    As I have said over and over again, if we legalize ANY of these lawbreakers, the current PC edict dictates that we must then ASSume ALL are legal.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by greyparrot
    Allowing even 1 to stay is AMNESTY
    Not only that (and I agree 100%), but it further blurs of the lines regarding who is here legally, and who is not. Remember, not only would our government allow these people to cut to the front of the line, but they would ALSO be waiving basic requirements, such as the ability to speak and understand english.

    As I have said over and over again, if we legalize ANY of these lawbreakers, the current PC edict dictates that we must then ASSume all are legal.
    Keep in mind that most of the kennedy/mccain amnesty schemes actually have no requirements to learn English at all ,

    They simply must enroll in an English class, nobody said they had to learn it

  6. #6
    Senior Member Populist's Avatar
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    This "make them learn English" business is such transparent nonsense designed to sound "tough" in ten second bites. We're not buying it McCain and Giuliani.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

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    The truth is that most of the "talking points" from comprehensive reform are bogus

    Some of us have read the fine print and its a complete sham

    Most of the enforcement is riddled with waivers and passes or very long
    time frames , Also impossibilities , How do you determine what tax is owed by and illegal working here for years? And to give them amnesty and allow these to go unpaid is a joke

    A big part of that amnesty would be to employers who could never
    be charged with any crime regarding illegal hiring

    Gang bangers allowed to stay

    It was basicly a give away list of perks for illegals

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    Quote Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS
    NO AMNESTY!!! McCain only got the fence part right, the Demacrates have gotten none of it right.....
    please. how long have you been here? get real - McVain got NOTHING right. he is open-borders all the way. he's done nothing to push the fence and he's insulted millions of americans with his smug open borders arrogance.

    McVain is the worst of the worst. not a single one of us here should give that jackass credit for anything other than being an open borders thug, through and through.

  9. #9
    Senior Member SOSADFORUS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by invadersgetout
    Quote Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS
    NO AMNESTY!!! McCain only got the fence part right, the Demacrates have gotten none of it right.....
    please. how long have you been here? get real - McVain got NOTHING right. he is open-borders all the way. he's done nothing to push the fence and he's insulted millions of americans with his smug open borders arrogance.

    McVain is the worst of the worst. not a single one of us here should give that jackass credit for anything other than being an open borders thug, through and through.
    What I meant was he continues to say in his speechs " I heard the people we have to secure the border first" and then he continues to push as if we would ok an amnesty with the fence....it was meant to be (SARC) I have been here long enough to know what a liar McCain is, read some of my posts...

    But I am glad you have it right because alot of Americans have amnesia, or very short memories.
    Please support ALIPAC's fight to save American Jobs & Lives from illegal immigration by joining our free Activists E-Mail Alerts (CLICK HERE)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Populist's Avatar
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    And the vital point that McCain refuses to acknowledge is that American people want the border secured period, not "first." And he refuses to accept that the American people overwhelmingly rejected HIS amnesty bill with Ted Kennedy. Our challenge is to make enough voters aware of McCain's huge "straight talk" detour.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

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