Thread: Iroquois Passport Dispute Raises Sovereignty Issue

Sorry, I have to go to work. I'll reply later...

"Mexican Indians were not and are not the same as American Indians and I'm sure also not the same as Canadian Indians. "

I don't know about the native peoples of Mexico other than that they did of course cross the border alot. Even in north central AZ is a site called Montezuma's Well that may be a meteor crater - there are amoebic life forms in that well that are unknown anywhere else on the planet. The tribes from Mexico ritually send their medicine men up to gather some of that water because it has been known since ancient times and is special to them. Both Aztec and Maya I believe. The name Montezuma was in error because that individual supposably never came this far north but still - the border was not an issue in ancient times. Another common theme here in AZ that is marketed to tourists is the Kokopelli who was a trader from Mexico who brought seashells and other good items to AZ tribes. Even we have some Conch shells from a construction site in the desert that my husband salvaged along with some Medicine Stones before the bulldozers ran them over. Now you know that Conch shells and smooth stones are not native to the desert. Also when I was a child on the east coast NDN peoples in the states were allowed to adopt NDN children from Canada because the relation is acknowledged.

The tribes of Canada are most definitely related by blood and language so the one people thing does have truth. I learned when reading for pleasure and was so surprised to see similar words - Dine'. Here is a map of Athabascan language distribution;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Na-Dene_langs.png

If you click on the link you will see that this language is spoken from the southwest up through Canada.

The Tohono O'odham tribe that shares land on the border with Mexico - here is from Wikipedia about "Border Issues."

Border Issues

Most of the 25,000 Tohono O'odham today live in southern Arizona, but there is also a population of several thousand in northern Sonora, Mexico. Unlike aboriginal groups along the U.S.-Canada border, the Tohono O'odham were not given dual citizenship when a border was drawn across their lands in 1853 by the Gadsden Purchase. Even so, members of the nation moved freely across the current international boundary for decades – with the blessing of the U.S. government – to work, participate in religious ceremonies, keep medical appointments in Sells, and visit relatives. Even today, many tribal members make an annual pilgrimage to Magdalena, Sonora, during St. Francis festivities. (Interestingly, the St. Francis festivities in Magdalena are held in the beginning of October (the anniversary of the death of St. Francis of Assisi), and not at the time of St. Francis Xavier, who was a Jesuit.) But since the mid-1980s, stricter border enforcement has restricted this movement, and tribal members born in Mexico or who have insufficient documentation to prove U.S. birth or residency, have found themselves trapped in a remote corner of Mexico, with no access to the tribal centers only tens of miles away. Since 2001, bills have repeatedly been introduced in Congress to solve the "one people-two country" problem by granting U.S. citizenship to all enrolled members of the Tohono O'odham, but have so far been unsuccessful.[5][6] Reasons that have been advanced in opposition to granting U.S. citizenship to all enrolled members of the Nation include the fact that births on the reservation have been for a large part informally recorded and the records are capable of easy falsification.
The proximity of the U.S.-Mexico border incurs further costs to the tribal government and breeds many social problems. Day and night, some Tohono O'odham have Border Patrol-band radio scanners tuned so that they may have early warning of upcoming smugglers, who are often heavily armed and desperate.
Many of the thousands of people crossing the Sonoran desert to work in U.S. agriculture or to smuggle controlled substances seek emergency assistance from the Tohono O'odham police when they become dehydrated or get stranded. On the ground, Border Patrol emergency rescue and tribal EMT coordinate and communicate. The tribe and the State of Arizona pay a large proportion of the bills for border-related law enforcement and emergency services. The former governor of Arizona, Janet Napolitano, (now Secretary of Homeland Security) and Tohono O'odham government leaders have repeatedly requested that the Federal government repay the state and the tribe for the costs of border-related emergencies. It is said that reimbursement could significantly help tribal members."

Here is a site that explains their position more clearly:

http://www.hrusa.org/indig/reports/Tohono.shtm

http://oodhamsolidarity.blogspot.com/20 ... ngent.html

Many traditional peoples - the religion is tied into every aspect of the daily life, chores, choices in a way that an average "westerner" or euro descent cannot understand. So the plea of these people is very important to find a way to honor while still honoring the needs of the larger nation - the US.

Then again, I recently posted an article here about how the Nahua tribe of Mexico kidnapped by machete' some journalists that trespassed on their land so I was laughing about the politically correct US NDNs saying we do not have borders. I assume that the journalists were regular Mexican of mixed bloods but perhaps they were from another nation. The article does not say.

There is truth in the claim of one people but this is a hugely sensitive situation. I do not violate NDN land even though there are things there that I want to see and I want to harvest. They don't want me and so I respect that. I could ask but will not. Also my NDN friends that have had to prove their heritage in order to apply for membership for various reasons including education scholarships - yes they have gone through years of provings just as "nomas" has said. Unfortunately false tribal ID cards could be quite a lucrative market for someone so inclined. I disagree with an NDN passport but for the tribe mentioned above - with so many members stuck in Mexico just a few miles from US center of community life there has to be a solution.

I am very upset that US NDNs are buying this no border thing and feel betrayed by them. That is why an expose' of how NDN's are treated in nations south of us should be made clear because I think that they have a better deal here and now and that they will be targeted and victimized if they do not support firm borders. They also do not have the resources alone to protect their land and the invaders will not respect. I think it is time to realize the source of greater harm.

This is why I ask nation within a nation? Autonomous nation? It is a difficult topic and perhaps my coverage of it is not insightful enough. We do need an answer.

By the way nomas, I am heartened to read what your wrote about your area.

I found this article while searching. . . .

http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/natio ... 64127.html

It was on my local news yesterday that the Yakama Indians of the NW were victims of a Identity theft scam.

I am not exactly sure how but they received an offer for $40.00 an hr. jobs working on the Gulf Oil Spill Cleanup.

So a lot of them jumped at the offer and signed up online .They gave their names, SS# and other tribal Info and waited for a bus that was to take them to the Gulf.

The bus never showed up and now it is being investigated as a scam to steal the tribal members Identification documents.

I'm hoping that tribal elders from each tribe are meeting and trying to find common ground for resolution to this problem. Unfortunately we seem to always have to compromise our values to get a win so I am interested to see proposals.

I'm sorry it took me so long to get back. Dark days at the track are my busiest times.

I'm not too sure about Natives calling all people human beings. I do know that as a Mohawk I am part of the Iroquois League, compromised of now 6 Indian Nations ( it was originally 5). If you would like just some tidbits go here:
http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/6Nations/

I'll bet you didn't know that the Constitution is based on our democracy!

But back to the original subject, with our Tribes being so closely related we are brought up ( or in my case taught) to refer to members from another tribe (within the League) as cousin, aunt or uncle. And in this I do agree we are one people. We are too closely related to think any other way.

It makes me very sad about the Yakama being scammed for their ID. Believe it or not there are benefits to being Native in the US, and even more so in Canada . But up here at least you could spot a Hispanic trying to pose as an NDN. After reading what sarum posted I guess the Yakama and Hispanics have intermingled to the point that they may resemble each other. Up here I just don't buy that!

Did you see the posters they had in Arizona's protest showing a half Native and half Hispanic face pushing the "we are one" card? I have an email with them if you would like to see them. I just don't know how to post them here.

"I'll bet you didn't know that the Constitution is based on our democracy! "

Sure did know that. Even the sovereigns teach it!

There is a lot of mixing and it has been going on for centuries. I can't get this photo to post so I will put the link. It has a photo of a Tohono O'odham headman from more than 100 years ago. His name was Spanish, Carlos Rios, and when you look at him you could be looking at a Mexican.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tohono_O%27odham

When you look at the peoples coming in from Mexico there is so much variety. I have met people from Turkey who look Mexican and vice-versa. I know that many of the Chinese who were imported to build US railroads escaped their slave like conditions and moved to Mexico and intermarried there. So many Mexicans with the slanty eyes came by that from their native ancestry - and some had a Chinese grandfather in the woodpile! Then we have people like Salma Hayek, Arabic and Mexican. Also many of the darker Romany peoples felt more comfortable in Mexico with other more colored peoples. The native tribes here in the southwest had many groups within the tribes too. When you go to the O'odham museum near the freeway between Phoenix and Tucson you can see some O'odham jazz musicians from long ago that were extremely dark. Rarely today do you ever see one so dark. How that happened I do not know. Also one time I met a woman who told me that she was full blood Navajo princess but she looked Arabic to me and her eyes were light - hazel with blue and green. I worked near a guy who claimed to be full blood Aztec royalty from ancient times who did many Aztec ceremonies locally and he also had the blue/hazel eyes but to me I thought that despite his dark skin I saw his features as descended from conquistadores not native but who am I to argue with what he claims his bloodline is? Here in the southwest it is true that we know many people who claim to be Spanish but their features are all NDN and then others who claim to be NDN but their features are all Spanish. (But we ALL eat tamales! LOL) Then there are many Mexicans who wish to believe that they are direct descendants of the Spaniards and not Mexican. Kind of like how an Iranian will tell you they are Persian in hopes that you do not know Persia is now Iran, or how a gypsy will tell you they are Romanian hoping that you will believe they mean the euro-nation - so I always ask - oh you mean Romany? Also NDN's of the older generation who try to be Spanish only because of the pain and prejudice they have suffered. Then I have a nephew who idolizes european celtic and nazi stuff - he is very dark with one euro ancestor - but he only claims that. So much pain with so many people and very few if any pure bloods. Another young relation went to prison and joined a white supremist group for survival. This kid has alot of NDN in him and his features show some of it but maybe they like NDNs in those groups. It hurt alot though because when family came to visit he would be verbally abusive to those who could not hide their NDN features - he had to disown them in front of those supremists. Then one time I was at a lecture and the speaker was talking about how on the Tohono O'odham reservation there are things that correspond with the ancient Arabic world. A member of the audience jumped up to speak in corroboration. She was telling how her family came to visit (Saudi I seem to recall) and they recognized both language and culture as familiar. So it is as if the tribal people here in AZ kept the language ancient because they were not a passageway for many travelers as in the Middle East - so the language and festivals did not change the same way - more they changed to adapt to the immediate surroundings. More like the other languages they came in contact with (like Athabaskan) were totally different whereas in the Middle East they can all communicate in the same language. So there is another relationship that some are very aware of but is hidden to most. Then the Tewa people of the Hopi tribe are actually from a pueblo to the east that joined with the Hopi to fend off the invaders because the Tewas are allowed to fight whereas the Hopi are not. Similar to the symbiosis between Sikh and Hindu.

So my husband looks like the father in the cartoon Pocohantas, but being a hairy Mexican he has a full beard - still all native peoples recognize him as NDN and like you say, call out to him using terms like "brother." I am considered euro by coloration but I know there is NDN ancestry. My grandfather was fascinated by NDN everything. He looked like an NDN in features - but eyes blue. Even his voice tonality was NDN. Now I have seen intermarriage and have seen that this can happen in one generation. I have a half sister who has alot of Cherokee in her and I never thought of how people think and their bloodlines but thinking of what little I know of traditional NDN thinking and how she thinks - I realize at this late age that she has an NDN mind. She has not adapted to the culture at large ways even though that is what she was raised in. She has always been NDN and we did not realize it because of our ignorance. It is very interesting to me and not a racist thing - more trying to understand her inabilities and great abilities because she does not survive well and have to work with how she thinks to find solutions without causing further harm if at all possible.

OK - I stop now.