Thread: John McCain Born in Panama, can he even be President?

Well, I am sure there will be many opinions on this issue and I am curious to hear them. I found this article at the Nolan Chart libertarian website.

http://primapanama.blogs.com/_panama_re ... n-bor.html

by Robert Werden

The Constitution clearly states only those born in the United States may be President

This is not open to interpretation or overturned by the 14th Amendment as it is very clear in the Constitution that the founders were being very specific on who could be the President.

The 14th Amendment was not written to change the rules of who could be the President, it was to determine citizenship. Citizenship does not allow just anyone to be the President. Only those born in the United States have that privilege.

Although John McCain was born in Panama many would argue that he was born in a US territory and is considered a US citizen. Being a citizen is not the litmus test the founders directed when they wrote the requirements to become the President.

A territory is not the United States. The United States is one of the 50 states. If Panama was a state things would be different. However Panama is a sovereign Country.

If this were the case, then we would have to allow all children born on US territories to be naturalized citizens. For example, if an Iraqi woman has an American service mans baby in a hospital in Iraq that happens to be a US Military base, then the baby would be born in US territory. This is not what the founders would have contemplated as a US naturalized citizen.

While this is probably an issue the courts would most likely rule that McCain is fully eligible to be the President, I my self would not vote for a person who is questionably walking a fine line on the founding fathers rule of Presidential eligibility.

Comments

Not only is he not a natural born US citizen as required by the Constitution. But, under Panamanian law, he is a Citizen of Panama and thus hold dual citizenship which is exactly what the founding fathers where trying to avoid.

Posted by: John Wolff | February 04, 2008 at 07:26 AM

When we were growing up, those (like me) born in the former American Canal Zone always thought none of us could be President for this very reason. I'd like to see an "official" explanation of why it is possible now.

Posted by: Bob Askew | February 04, 2008 at 07:50 AM

You asked for opinions, here is mine.

My family on my mother’s and father’s side can be traced back in the United States at least to the early 1700’s. This gives me a 300+ year history of being a US citizen. I am a US military officer for over 25 years, and I write this from the Headquarters, NATO Joint Forces Command in Lisbon Portugal. My father served the US in World War II. Both grandfathers served the United States in World War I. I have relatives buried at Gettysburg (and the Corazal cemetery in Panama), and I have family members that were involved in the Revolutionary War. I have only considered myself to be an American.

Both my mother and father were born in the United States. After World War II my father took a job for the US Government in Washington. In the late 1950’s my family was transferred as a US Government employee to Panama.

I was born in the Panama Canal Zone in Gorgas Hospital (US Army). As I understand the law, the fact that I was born outside of the US makes me ineligible to serve as the Commander in Chief.

The law was enacted to ensure the President and Commander in Chief was a United States citizen, and would not be compromised by loyalties other than to the United States. The law was put in place when travel was not easy, and the United States was not a world power. Since that time there have been millions of military and civilian employees of the United States who have lived lives, and raised families outside of the United States while serving their country, the United States of America. It is my opinion that the law should be replaced with something that differentiates between an American born overseas to United States Citizens (citizen by birth, but born outside of the US), and a foreign national who gains US citizenship. While most of my friends that I grew up with in Panama will not be running for the office of President of the United States, I believe the law is ineffective, and does a disservice to the millions of US Citizens who have been citizens for generations, but had the experience of being born to US citizens working for the US Government outside of the US.

Just my thoughts,

Ken Sener
Capt, USN
BHS 1977

Posted by: Ken Sener | February 04, 2008 at 08:11 AM

Like Bob Askew and Ken Sener above, I was also born and raised in the Canal Zone and carry both passports. The whole time we grew up in Panama, it was common knowledge that we could not ever be President. Recently, others that I grew up with and I have discussed this issue relative to John McCain's status and have wondered if, somewhere along the line, the rules got changed. Like Ken, I come from a family immigrating to the U.S. from England in the early 1800's and my father was a decorated WW II veteran of the Normandy invasion and I did Viet Nam. But, I have always known and accepted the fact that the Presidency was out of reach simply because I was not born in the U.S. as were my siblings. This is a difficult issue given that the elections are not too far off and McCain is looking good. I'm guessing that this issue has been researched on his behalf and a decision has been made somewhere along the line and that it became a non-issue. Otherwise, you can bet your last Cerveza Panama and bowl of ceviche that Hillary would have brought it up by now.

Steve Clarke
BHS '65

Posted by: Steve Clarke | February 04, 2008 at 09:24 AM

These types of arguments always have half truths in them. First of all most people do not even know what the term US Citizen means, because they start their opinion before they get all the facts. The shocking truth is the powers at be, that really control the people within America, have long past invaded the country, almost secretly, and placed a sinister system by which you volunteer for a change of citizenship status. When you volunteer, by requesting a social security number, you asked for the change of status and they accommodate you by changing your domicile to Washington DC, then they classify you as living in one of the federal districts ie the southern district of Florida. This make you a CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES, because before that you were a citizen of one of the several states united constitutioally ie Florida and not a Federal or US Citizen as that term is used in Law. This little slight of hand most people are not aware of, but this is why a UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT has jurisdiction in the matter of citizenship and the issue of president. When in fact a district Court of United States should decide the matter. The system is fraud mind you and totally circumvents the constitution and a state citizen individual’s constitution standing. But in this day in age people don’t really care about the facts of their rights and the frauds that is perpetrated on them, until of course they become a direct victim, them it's too late. All of these politicians have there citizenship status changed as well and are in on the fraud directly and are getting paid in there pension plans by the very entities that perpetrated the fraud in the first place. Organized Crime Perfected and at its finest!!! It is summed up perfectly in the movie Gangs of New York, when the councilman said to the mobster “it must appear that we are following the law when in fact we are breaking itâ€

Posted By: Arthur Lawrance
Date: 2008-02-04 12:05:58

I was born in Christobar Canal Zone, hospital. But, My Birth Certificate says I was born in Colon, Republic of Panama. Coco Solo Naval Base Hospital in the Canal Zone was not built when McCain was born in 1936, it was built during WWII. He was most likely born in the same Hospital that I was. If his parents did not go the the America Consult in Panama and register his birth using Form No.240a when he was born he is not US Citizen. There are a lot of "rules" covering US Citizen whos chrildren were born over seas. Which I will not cover here. Mark my words that if he win the election in 2008 then Democrates will take it to Court.

A family friend just had a grandson overseas and he is considered a natural born citizen. He wasn't born on a base or any U.S. controlled territory but both his parents are citizens of the U.S.

Both his parents being U.S. citizens is given priority over the location of his birth so technically he is a natural born citizen. Otherwise, once the baby returned to the U.S., it would be an illegal alien.

I'm wondering why the Democrats have not used this yet? I also think they would challenge him in case he wins. Why take the chance? Vote for ROMNEY!

Originally Posted by bettsie

A family friend just had a grandson overseas and he is considered a natural born citizen. He wasn't born on a base or any U.S. controlled territory but both his parents are citizens of the U.S.

Both his parents being U.S. citizens is given priority over the location of his birth so technically he is a natural born citizen. Otherwise, once the baby returned to the U.S., it would be an illegal alien.

This quote is right off the USCIS web site:

Most people become U.S. citizens in one of two ways:
*By birth, either within the territory of the United States or to U.S. citizen parents, or
* By Naturalization.

Hi Bettsie, good morning,

Originally Posted by Bettsie

...any U.S. controlled territory but both his parents are citizens of the U.S.

Bettsie, I can't stand McCain any more than our Muslim [born in Kenya] candidate, and there's no damn way in hell I'm gonna vote for either of them. please let me attempt to clarify.

The Canal Zone was a soverign part of the United States, not just controlled. We bought and paid for it and owned it and it was US soil. That is, until the most vile and vicious traitor in our history came along - Jimmy Carter.

Originally Posted by The Best and the Brightest

Are you calling a former president a traitor?

Well, let's see...
Yeah,
As a matter of fact I am calling Jimmy Carter a traitor. hell yeah!
'Cause he is a damn traitor. Need a list?

I believe that it doesn't matter WHERE an American is born, as long as his PARENTS are Americans.

IMO, this is not an issue. John McCain's was born to American citizens while his dad was serving in a military capacity. John's father would not have been serving in Panama had our government not ordered him to do so. I don't like McCain either but the idea that children born to our military members while serving their country elsewhere aren't citizens is bordering on the ridiculous, don't you think?

mcshame he reminds me of a wessel.



I can not see for the life of me why would anyone
with common sence want this wessel in office.

koobster wrote:

mcshame he reminds me of a wessel.

Looks more like a chipmunk to me.