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  1. #1
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Outrage as military vehicles, equipment taken from officers in wake of Obama order

    Outrage as military vehicles, equipment taken from officers in wake of Obama order

    By Adam Shaw Published November 23, 2015

    Valuable vehicles and equipment are being yanked from law enforcement agencies across the country by the Obama administration in the wake of the president’s post-Ferguson order -- as sheriffs and lawmakers tell FoxNews.com the equipment is needed, and losing it could put officers and the communities they serve in danger.

    “These things are useful tools and the president taking them away will put more officers in jeopardy and at risk of harm or even death. I don’t know how he can sleep at night knowing his actions will have those repercussions,” Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Ala., told FoxNews.com.

    President Obama issued Executive Order 13688 in January after the 2014 riots in Ferguson, Mo., amid concerns about the “militarization” of the police fueling a heavy-handed response.

    The controversy circled around the 1033 program, set up by the Defense Department in 1997. The program authorizes the Pentagon to send excess military equipment such as armored tracked vehicles, camouflage uniforms and weapons to local law enforcement agencies for no cost. Supporters of the program say it saves money for local agencies, strengthens those agencies and allows the U.S. to get a second use out of existing equipment.

    Obama’s order set up a working group to provide recommendations on changes. The group, headed by officials at the Defense Department, Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice, then drew up a list of items that would either be controlled or prohibited entirely from being acquired via the 1033 program.

    “We’ve seen how militarized gear can sometimes give people a feeling like there’s an occupying force, as opposed to a force that’s part of the community that’s protecting them and serving them. It can alienate and intimidate local residents, and send the wrong message. So we’re going to prohibit some equipment made for the battlefield that is not appropriate for local police departments,” Obama said in May when the report was released.

    Items on the prohibited list include armored tracked vehicles, weaponized aircraft and vehicles, .50-caliber firearms and ammo, bayonets, and camouflage.

    And now the feds are looking to collect.

    A recall of items on the prohibited list that had been handed out via the 1033 program went into effect on Oct. 1, and law enforcement agencies have until April 1, 2016, to return them, a spokeswoman for the Pentagon’s Defense Logistics Agency told FoxNews.com.

    Sheriffs using the program are outraged, saying that the main focus of the initial backlash – the armored tracked vehicles – are purely defensive vehicles that save lives in crisis situations, and double as rescue vehicles in areas with rough terrain.

    Sheriff Mike Bouchard of Oakland County, Mich., told FoxNews.com of a situation in which an active shooter was holed up in his house shooting out of the windows, hitting nearby homes. Bouchard said they were able to use the vehicle to evacuate residents from houses, while also protecting police officers from being shot. During the siege, over 500 rounds of ammunition were exchanged.

    “There’s no question that saved lives,” Bouchard, who is also a former senatorial and gubernatorial candidate, said. “We have letters from people we evacuated saying ‘we don’t know what you could have done to save us without that armored vehicle.'”

    Bouchard said the federal government's crackdown on the equipment is an example of the disconnect between Obama’s claims and reality.

    “His verbiage calls these tanks. These aren’t tanks. There is no offensive weaponry mounted on a tracked armored vehicle in any police department. These are big safe boxes,” he said.

    The vehicles themselves aren’t banned, only those distributed under the 1033 program. However, many counties received their vehicles free-of-charge, and won’t be able to afford to buy one of their own – something they say makes their officers less safe.

    “Our agency is not big, we have a total of 130 employees, and we don’t have quarter-of-a-million-dollar budget to buy one,” Sheriff Larry Amerson of Calhoun County, Ala., told FoxNews.com. “The 1033 program gave us the opportunity to get that for free, which was in my view a no brainer.”

    Amerson added that in the light of the Paris terror attacks, the president’s order is even more concerning.

    “As has been demonstrated in Paris, the potential for those kind of attacks is there, and the response to those attacks in the U.S. will be local law enforcement and whatever resources we have on hand now will be what we can bring to the table if that happens,” he said.

    "Sheriffs are very angry. It's a tool in our toolbox being taken away from us."

    - Sheriff Paul Laney

    Sheriff Paul Laney of Cass County, N.D., who also serves on the Board of the National Sheriffs' Association, says that the anger is shared by sheriffs across the country.

    “Sheriffs are very angry. It’s a tool in our toolbox being taken away from us based on perception. When we show up with a piece of equipment to save lives it can’t always look safe and cozy,” Laney told FoxNews.com.

    While the armored vehicles are the main focus of the sheriffs' concern, some questioned why other items such as bayonets are being recalled.

    Bouchard said that his department had lost 16 bayonets that were used primarily for honor guards, funerals and other ceremonial purposes, but also would be kept in trunks for their use as wire cutters, including cutting the seatbelts of car crash victims.

    “No police department charges up the hill with bayonets on their rifles,” he laughed. “Apparently [President Obama] thinks it’s too scary for us to have a big knife."

    Bouchard said that the order is self-defeating and that while his county still has one armored vehicle remaining that is allowed (because it has wheels, not tracks) it will force nearby counties that can afford it to go out and buy their own vehicle.

    The DLA spokeswoman said the agency is making arrangements to transfer the vehicles to DOD military training ranges to be used as more realistic targets for aviators and ground forces.

    Due to the executive order, there is little than can be done immediately at the congressional level. However, Rep. Rogers, who sits on the House Armed Services Committee, told FoxNews.com he is working on next year’s National Defense Authorization Act to try and get the equipment back in the hands of law enforcement in 2016.

    Do police have the support of the president, the public?

    Rogers wrote to Obama last week and pledged he would “push the Congress to undo this reckless action.”

    “It’s offensive to law enforcement to take this back and to imply that it is being abused by law enforcement," Rogers told FoxNews.com.

    However, the president's move has seen continued support from civil rights groups, such as the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).

    “Through this ban, the president has taken a critical step towards rebuilding trust between police and the people they have pledged to serve," the group said in a statement when the ban was announced in May. "Grenade launchers, high-caliber weapons, armored vehicles – this equipment never belonged in our neighborhoods."

    Adam Shaw is a Politics Reporter for FoxNews.com. He can be reached here or on Twitter: @AdamShawNY.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...l?intcmp=hpbt1
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    It's a rare moment when I agree with anything the Obama Administration does, but I totally agree with this order. Military equipment from the federal government should have never ever been given to or made available to state or local law enforcement.
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    http://www.alipac.us/f12/texas-navy-...grande-251910/


    Texas will deploy a fleet of six gunboats on the Rio Grande.

    February 29th, 2012
    02:11 PM ET


    Texas 'navy' to patrol the Rio Grande

    Texas is getting its own navy.

    Next month, the state's Department of Public Safety will deploy the first of a fleet of six gunboats on the Rio Grande, the river that forms the border between the state and Mexico, CNN affiliate WFAA-TV reports.

    The 34-foot-long boats, each powered by three, 300-horsepower outboard engines, will have bulletproof plating and six machine guns apiece, not unlike the river patrol boats the U.S. Navy used during the Vietnam War...

    http://www.alipac.us/f12/texas-navy-...grande-251910/
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    I support Texas gunboats to patrol the Rio Grande between Texas and Mexico to fight foreign drug cartels, smugglers and illegal aliens. Calling it a "Navy" isn't the right term.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Obama is the threat, not your local police departments!

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    It's a rare moment when I agree with anything the Obama Administration does, but I totally agree with this order. Military equipment from the federal government should have never ever been given to or made available to state or local law enforcement.
    Judy,

    My family has worked for the Sheriffs' Department in Pinellas County, Florida, for many years. These are everyday people just like you and me! In many instances they could be considered as your local militia. Just keep in mind these are the local residents who would first responders to any terrorist attack in your neighborhood!

    My concern is not with our local law enforcement officers turning on us. It is with our federal government and a President who has done almost everything imaginable to destroy and weaken our country from within which indicates he is not beyond formulating a plan to overthrow the states by FORCE. Let us look at the facts:


    The sad truth is, Obama has added more to the national debt than all other presidents combined;

    He has given aid and comfort to our enemies by releasing them from GITMO;

    He has attempted to strike a deal with a hostile foreign nation behind closed doors and without the consent of the United State Senate being required as commanded by our Constitution;

    He is allowing a thousand Islamic "refugees" into the U.S. each month without proper screening or a requirement they renounce an allegiance to their country of origin;

    He has transferred America’s weapons of defense and military technology to hostile Islamic leaders [the Islamic Brother Hood];

    He has assisted an Islamic terrorist state to move forward with producing the component parts for a nuclear arsenal;

    He has worked to release $150 Billion in assets to the terrorist government of Iran;

    He has allowed our southern border to be invaded by the poverty stricken populations of Mexico and Central America;

    He has decided to prop up the communist government of Cuba by normalizing relations, which in turn will yield a needed infusion of money to strengthen this government’s iron fist around the necks of its citizens;

    He has released thousands of criminal illegal aliens from our nation’s jails into our nation’s population;

    He is responsible for undermining our election process by making it easy for ineligible persons to vote;

    He has interfered with our nation’s ability to develop our nation’s natural resources, namely oil, coal and natural gas, to fuel our economy;

    He has worked to stifle America’s agricultural industry and ability to produce food under the guise of environmental necessity;

    He has intentionally sabotaged our nation’s health care delivery system;

    He has blatantly impinged upon the American People’s inalienable right to make their own choices and decisions regarding their health care and medical needs;

    He is responsible for a dramatic increase in the number of people receiving food stamps;

    He is responsible for a dramatic drop in fulltime employment;

    He is responsible for a dramatic increase in the unemployment rate among our nation’s Black and poverty stricken youth;

    He has used the force of our federal government to tax the paychecks of hard working people living in our nation’s inner cities and then transferred $ billions from our federal treasury to his inner circle friends under the guise of “green energy” [Solyndra/Chevy Volt/Fisker, Exelon, etc.];

    He has repeatedly circumvented our Republican Form of Government by issuing Executive Orders and memorandums;

    He has stood by and allowed his Administration to use the force of the federal government to attack "conservatives" who dare to exercise their right to freedom of speech;

    And he has now started to disarm local police forces which are America’s front line in dealing with domestic terrorism or a hostile federal takeover of the United States!

    Who can truthfully deny Obama is intentionally attempting to destroy America from within and ought to be viewed as a very real threat to our liberty?

    JWK



    When will the America People realize we have an Islamic cell operating out of our nation's White House? Will they come to this conclusion when Islamic terrorist activities begin in our southern Border States or cities like NewYork City?


    Last edited by johnwk; 11-26-2015 at 10:36 AM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Judy,

    My family has worked for the Sheriffs' Department in Pinellas County, Florida, for many years. These are everyday people just like you and me! In many instances they could be considered as your local militia. Just keep in mind these are the local residents who would first responders to any terrorist attack in your neighborhood!

    My concern is not with our local law enforcement officers turning on us. It is with our federal government and a President who has done almost everything imaginable to destroy and weaken our country from within which indicates he is not beyond formulating a plan to overthrow the states by FORCE. Let us look at the facts:


    The sad truth is, Obama has added more to the national debt than all other presidents combined;

    He has given aid and comfort to our enemies by releasing them from GITMO;

    He has attempted to strike a deal with a hostile foreign nation behind closed doors and without the consent of the United State Senate being required as commanded by our Constitution;

    He is allowing a thousand Islamic "refugees" into the U.S. each month without proper screening or a requirement they renounce an allegiance to their country of origin;

    He has transferred America’s weapons of defense and military technology to hostile Islamic leaders [the Islamic Brother Hood];

    He has assisted an Islamic terrorist state to move forward with producing the component parts for a nuclear arsenal;

    He has worked to release $150 Billion in assets to the terrorist government of Iran;

    He has allowed our southern border to be invaded by the poverty stricken populations of Mexico and Central America;

    He has decided to prop up the communist government of Cuba by normalizing relations, which in turn will yield a needed infusion of money to strengthen this government’s iron fist around the necks of its citizens;

    He has released thousands of criminal illegal aliens from our nation’s jails into our nation’s population;

    He is responsible for undermining our election process by making it easy for ineligible persons to vote;

    He has interfered with our nation’s ability to develop our nation’s natural resources, namely oil, coal and natural gas, to fuel our economy;

    He has worked to stifle America’s agricultural industry and ability to produce food under the guise of environmental necessity;

    He has intentionally sabotaged our nation’s health care delivery system;

    He has blatantly impinged upon the American People’s inalienable right to make their own choices and decisions regarding their health care and medical needs;

    He is responsible for a dramatic increase in the number of people receiving food stamps;

    He is responsible for a dramatic drop in fulltime employment;

    He is responsible for a dramatic increase in the unemployment rate among our nation’s Black and poverty stricken youth;

    He has used the force of our federal government to tax the paychecks of hard working people living in our nation’s inner cities and then transferred $ billions from our federal treasury to his inner circle friends under the guise of “green energy” [Solyndra/Chevy Volt/Fisker, Exelon, etc.];

    He has repeatedly circumvented our Republican Form of Government by issuing Executive Orders and memorandums;

    He has stood by and allowed his Administration to use the force of the federal government to attack "conservatives" who dare to exercise their right to freedom of speech;

    And he has now started to disarm local police forces which are America’s front line in dealing with domestic terrorism or a hostile federal takeover of the United States!

    Who can truthfully deny Obama is intentionally attempting to destroy America from within and ought to be viewed as a very real threat to our liberty?

    JWK



    When will the America People realize we have an Islamic cell operating out of our nation's White House? Will they come to this conclusion when Islamic terrorist activities begin in our southern Border States or cities like NewYork City?


    johnwk, one of my parents was part of the criminal justice system for 35 years. 3 members of my family were Prosecuting Attorneys and 1 became Circuit Judge which is the judge that rules in all criminal cases. I grew up in the court house and knew more law enforcement than any other single group outside of church. Of course local law enforcement is not who we should fear, but when cops want to become military operators, using tanks driving down the streets like we saw in Ferguson to scare protesters and frighten unarmed civilians, then something has gone very wrong. I'm sure your family like all of mine and all the ones I grew up with are in fact just like you and me. But there are others who are not. You know that and I know that and these are the ones who are causing the problems for civilians and harming the public relations image of law enforcement.

    For example, the best test of whether a police agency is corrupt or not is whether or not they support enforcing US immigration law. If they don't, then you know citizens have a problem. That agency is on the take with the cartels, no doubt about it, because there's no other explanation for it. This makes them criminal, and this makes them dangerous, so they must not be entrusted with military equipment. Right now, they make terrible mistakes with Tasers, they empty weapons into unarmed civilians, then they lie about it. We can't trust them with military equipment, and military equipment is inappropriate for street crimes anyway.

    Yes, 80% of our law enforcement agencies are filled with people like you and me, but it's the other 20% that requires our vigilance. There's very little Obama does that I agree with, and I'm sure his motives for withdrawing the equipment is not pure, but our police officers should not have military equipment. They aren't trained in military rules of engagement, this needs to be reserved for the National Guard that is trained in such.

    I don't believe Obama is a terrorist or part of a terrorist cell, although that's not to say there isn't one being operated by someone else in the White House or Executive Branch in one or more of our agencies. I believe Obama is a narcissistic idiot that by a simple game of chance every once in awhile gets a decision right, and this decision is simply one of them. On the rest of it, we have to hold our noses, watch our backs, keep the pressure on and ride out the next 14 months, until hopefully we inaugurate Donald Trump, President of the United States, so we no longer have to worry about immigration, terrorists, the economy or what our government is up to, you know the way it used to be when we were kids and life was good, people could pay their bills, and everyone looked forward to every day and every year, because hope was real.

    That's what we need, and we need a President who remembers those days and has the skills and integrity to fix this disaster. The only person in the race who has those qualities is Donald Trump.

    Stay True! Stay Trump!
    Last edited by Judy; 11-26-2015 at 09:56 PM.
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    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    NO AMNESTY

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    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    LIVE: AG Jeff Sessions announces Trump administration will end limits on use of surplus military equipment by police http://abcn.ws/2xrkKGL



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    I am in no way an admirer of Obama. I agree his administration has done so very many destructive things to this country

    If, however, we are going to find our way out of this quagmire, we are going to have to face facts and stop pretending there are many, if any, good guys in our government.

    As I understand it, the criminals released were low level drug dealers, etc. If I accept that, I agree with it. Our judicial system is weighted against poor people, we have to admit that as well. It is wrong a person gets sent to prison for selling a baggie of marijuana while we allow pharmaceuticals to flood this country with the pain killers that are all over the streets. We allow them to sell drugs they know harm people. Nothing is ever done.

    Why should a person be in prison for a hot check, when we just saw Wall Street/government fleece the American people for billions and they are coming around for another shearing, I fear, with all this housing shortage stories.

    As for Iran, we had no right to tell Iran, or any other country, they can't have nuclear weapons. We have them, countries all around the world have them, including their avowed enemy, Israel.

    Yes, Iran has little love for this country - we might consider why. We fomented a war to depose an elected leader, put the Bloody Shah on the throne.

    Information has come out that the 'hostages' in Iran were CIA, they were holding. If true, and Since the CIA was the one fomenting said internal war and supported the Shah, it's understandable they would try to contain them - or maybe worse.

    They weren't just holding Americans because they were Americans. If that had been the case Ross Perot would never have gotten his people out. Despite the movie, surely we don't believe he staged a commando raid and removed his people. Really?

    We armed and encouraged Saddam Hussein in a war with Iran.

    Yes, they don't like us much -

    Why are we spending so much time on Cuba, a communist country. At the same time, we have built China, the largest and a repressive communist country into a superpower. We are dependent on this 'communist' country. We even get military supplies from China. Remember when it was 'Red China' - no more. But somehow little old Cuba is a menace of gigantic proportions, but not China???

    Obama did nothing to make the illegal situation better - just the opposite. George Bush, however, encouraged, supported, defended and funded the illegal invasion for 8 years.

    He is responsible for the destruction of our education system, our healthcare system, lowered wages and opportunities for American workers. He is responsible for putting millions on welfare, giving home loans to them. He gave the the future of American young people to the children of illegals.

    At the time Pres. Bush came in office, he could have done something. There weren't nearly as many and the opposition was not nearly as cohesive or well funded as they are now. He could have fixed the problem. He didn't - he tripled it. Remember, the news media was not against him, he could have done it. It was a very opportune time to get it done.

    Just think how many anchor babies were born during Bush's 8 years?????

    His actions are responsible for many, many black people being out of work, and for black youth having no opportunities. The blacks and young people were the most impacted by illegal immigration.

    As for the debt, think of the many illegals in the US on welfare, and every every form of freebie there is. Then think of the years and years of wars based on lies.

    George Bush had his own 'environmental' pet - ethanol. Let's talk about how much that has cost Americans in subsidies - to this day, it is subsidized. Think how much diverting all that corn into ethanol has kept the price of food higher for Americans. It didn't hurt the agricultural economy - it was a boon to them.

    The 'Help American Vote' law was signed by Bush. This was the law that put electronic voting machines in place. These are very easily hacked and manipulated. In our county, they closed down all outlying polling places, and bought machines for two locations.
    That isn't helping anyone to vote - it's helping the vote to be controlled.

    Bottom line, Obama was a horror, so was Bush. We have to take the blinders off.

    The police are the police and the military is the military. It is totally different and demands a totally different approach.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Our country is sick, upside down, inside out. It is a quagmire as you say. No doubt about it. We won't end the War on Drugs which we really need to do, instead we militarize our police and ramp it up to take it out on protesters while North Korea perfects its nuclear weapons program to strike the United States.

    I remember how I felt when I saw that armored vehicle strolling down the streets in Ferguson, outrage and humor all at the same time. Outrage that they had such a vehicle and smirking inside at the Barney Fifes hiding inside it afraid of protesters and rioters.
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