Thread: Planned Parenthood to Run $1 Million Ad Trashing Donald Trump: “Too Dangerous” Becaus

Originally Posted by MW

One of my sons was born five weeks premature. Other than spending an extra week in the hospital for observation, he was fine. I'll admit he was a little behind his peers during the first six months of life, but after that he blossomed. Furthermore, he never had any health issues and is now a 31 year old adult.

That's a lucky break, but the earlier the premature birth, the worse it gets. And gestation is not always a fixed time period. Nine months is an average for people.

Fetal development at the time of birth is the real measure of premature birth.

My point remains, the woman is not just a passive vessel for gestation. The fetus needs the woman and a woman who wants to give birth needs the fetus to be born at the right time to insure her health and survival. Until labor is complete, a fetus is not a person, the woman is a person, the only human being to be concerned about.

Originally Posted by pkskyali

That's a lucky break, but the earlier the premature birth, the worse it gets. And gestation is not always a fixed time period. Nine months is an average for people.

Fetal development at the time of birth is the real measure of premature birth.

My point remains, the woman is not just a passive vessel for gestation. The fetus needs the woman and a woman who wants to give birth needs the fetus to be born at the right time to insure her health and survival. Until labor is complete, a fetus is not a person, the woman is a person, the only human being to be concerned about.

We're going to have to agree to disagree because I believe a fully formed baby with a heartbeat is a living thing whether it be inside or outside the womb.

Originally Posted by MW

We're going to have to agree to disagree because I believe a fully formed baby with a heartbeat is a living thing whether it be inside or outside the womb.

Again, you are avoiding the facts of the matter. When the fetus is fully formed it is ejected from the uterus and becomes an infant. There is no such thing as a fully formed baby in the womb. When the "baby" is fully formed (the fetus), it no longer needs to be in the womb. Then, the woman's body senses this and her body undergoes a profound physical reaction, she goes into labor and the fetus is disconnected from her body and expelled out her vagina. She gives birth. The fetus undergoes similar reactions in parallel because it is no longer connected physically to the woman's body and can no longer depend on her body to support it. It begins to breath on its own and its respiration and metabolism undergo radical changes that distinguish it between its former life as a fetus and to begin its life as an infant.

Don't advance the religious hysterical narrative. When a woman is pregnant, she is the only person we should be concerned about. Her health, her life and her decisions determine whether that fertilized egg makes it to infancy. And if she doesn't want to go through with it, we don't need or want people telling her that she is responsible for some other person besides herself. Or that she might be committing murder if she doesn't want to go through with it. That is a simple lie.

Originally Posted by pkskyali

Again, you are avoiding the facts of the matter. When the fetus is fully formed it is ejected from the uterus and becomes an infant. There is no such thing as a fully formed baby in the womb. When the "baby" is fully formed (the fetus), it no longer needs to be in the womb. Then, the woman's body senses this and her body undergoes a profound physical reaction, she goes into labor and the fetus is disconnected from her body and expelled out her vagina. She gives birth. The fetus undergoes similar reactions in parallel because it is no longer connected physically to the woman's body and can no longer depend on her body to support it. It begins to breath on its own and its respiration and metabolism undergo radical changes that distinguish it between its former life as a fetus and to begin its life as an infant.

Don't advance the religious hysterical narrative. When a woman is pregnant, she is the only person we should be concerned about. Her health, her life and her decisions determine whether that fertilized egg makes it to infancy. And if she doesn't want to go through with it, we don't need or want people telling her that she is responsible for some other person besides herself. Or that she might be committing murder if she doesn't want to go through with it. That is a simple lie.

Well, at least you admit the fetus is living. I guess that's something anyway. I agree with you on that point, a fetus is living. Whereas I believe ending the life of a fetus is wrong because to do so is ending a potential viable human life, you obviously believe it is acceptable to take the life simply because it's unwanted. I believe it is wrong to take a life simply because it's not wanted. Some reasons I can find acceptable, but not wanting the baby is not a justifiable reason in my view. Regardless, I still say late term abortions are nothing less than murder. I'm concrete in my view as I'm sure you are in yours. Your two minutes are up, my two minutes are up, now perhaps we can move on to immigration.

For the record, many scientist and doctors believe life begins at conception.

Originally Posted by MW

Well, at least you admit the fetus is living. I guess that's something anyway. I agree with you on that point, a fetus is living. Whereas I believe ending the life of a fetus is wrong because to do so is ending a potential viable human life, you obviously believe it is acceptable to take the life simply because it's unwanted. I believe it is wrong to take a life simply because it's not wanted. Some reasons I can find acceptable, but not wanting the baby is not a justifiable reason in my view. Regardless, I still say late term abortions are nothing less than murder. I'm concrete in my view as I'm sure you are in yours. Your two minutes are up, my two minutes are up, now perhaps we can move on to immigration.

For the record, many scientist and doctors believe life begins at conception.

The fetus is a part of a living woman, that's not the problem. The problem is confusing it with a person. The problem is that the woman doesn't want to be pregnant and the idle fantasy that somehow the contents of her uterus is a person deserving protection from the law. This is as insane as transgender surgery and motivated by the same twisted view of women and womanhood.

Late term abortions are a straw dog to the issue. Late term abortions are very dangerous to the woman and only are medically recommended in the case of hydroencephaly where the developed fetus is horribly deformed with a swollen water filled head that acts as a solid and cannot pass safely from the uterus out the vagina of the woman. The woman risks hemorrhage and the destruction of reproductive tissue.

The most likely target of an abortion is very early in gestation where the egg has only developed into an embryo, a very primitive structure of developing tissue that is hard to distinguish from the embryo of other species, certainly not seriously to be considered a person in any moral or legal sense.

And of course if a woman is using the Pill as birth control, any fertilized egg is aborted by the inducing of menstruation by hormones. This would also be outlawed if abortion were outlawed.

Sure, a lot of doctors believe life begins at conception. A lot of other doctors practice transgender surgery as well and issue licences to get high on "medical" marijuana. There is a lot wrong with the medical establishment, a lot to worry about.

Originally Posted by pkskyali

The fetus is a part of a living woman, that's not the problem. The problem is confusing it with a person. The problem is that the woman doesn't want to be pregnant and the idle fantasy that somehow the contents of her uterus is a person deserving protection from the law. This is as insane as transgender surgery and motivated by the same twisted view of women and womanhood.

Late term abortions are a straw dog to the issue. Late term abortions are very dangerous to the woman and only are medically recommended in the case of hydroencephaly where the developed fetus is horribly deformed with a swollen water filled head that acts as a solid and cannot pass safely from the uterus out the vagina of the woman. The woman risks hemorrhage and the destruction of reproductive tissue.

The most likely target of an abortion is very early in gestation where the egg has only developed into an embryo, a very primitive structure of developing tissue that is hard to distinguish from the embryo of other species, certainly not seriously to be considered a person in any moral or legal sense.

And of course if a woman is using the Pill as birth control, any fertilized egg is aborted by the inducing of menstruation by hormones. This would also be outlawed if abortion were outlawed.

Sure, a lot of doctors believe life begins at conception. A lot of other doctors practice transgender surgery as well and issue licences to get high on "medical" marijuana. There is a lot wrong with the medical establishment, a lot to worry about.

No, you were right when you said the fetus is living, but I digress because my two minutes are up. You my friend would send the debate moderators into a tizzy. lol

Everyone needs to remember that the girl or woman is a life and her life, well-being, dreams, future and happiness matter too. Her life is first in time, first in line.

Originally Posted by Judy

Everyone needs to remember that the girl or woman is a life and her life, well-being, dreams, future and happiness matter too. Her life is first in time, first in line.

Sure the woman's life matters too. I don't think anyone has denied that fact. However, there has to be a point where the baby's life comes into the picture too. I guess the $60,000 question is, when is that? Assuming the woman wasn't sexually assaulted, she damned well knew there could be possible consequences for her actions. While abortion may be the easy solution, is it the best solution? Well, I would argue that there is another option and it's called adoption. I think we can all agree that improved sex education, an increase of in the use of pregnancy prevention methods, and tighter morals are preferable to taking the life of an unborn. If you don't want a baby, don't participate, unprotected, in the activity that creates life. If you make such a mistake, it should be on you and your partner, not the life you've created. While I fully understand there are specific situations where an early term abortion my be necessary, I'll never buy into the reasoning or purpose for a partial birth abortion. That's just murder, plan and simple.

Originally Posted by MW

Sure the woman's life matters too. I don't think anyone has denied that fact. However, there has to be a point where the baby's life comes into the picture too. I guess the $60,000 question is, when is that? ...

That's not a question at all. That's easy to see. The baby's life comes into the picture when it is born in a normal healthy birth, not before. Before birth all you have is a fully developed fetus. Only after birth is when you have a baby. That's why we call it "having a baby" and why we say pregnant women are "going to have a baby". We don't say that she has a baby already. That wouldn't make sense.

Displacing the issue onto the red herring of partial birth abortion in the case of hydroencephaly is just panic. It is a rare and extreme case not relevant to the issue of abortion at all. In many other cases of extreme birth defects, the infant is born dead anyway and if the woman delayed birth so long as to make partial birth abortion necessary, it means she wanted to give birth. She was never seeking an abortion and a partial birth abortion is only done to protect her health, and even her life.

Originally Posted by MW

Sure the woman's life matters too. I don't think anyone has denied that fact. However, there has to be a point where the baby's life comes into the picture too. I guess the $60,000 question is, when is that? Assuming the woman wasn't sexually assaulted, she damned well knew there could be possible consequences for her actions. While abortion may be the easy solution, is it the best solution? Well, I would argue that there is another option and it's called adoption. I think we can all agree that improved sex education, an increase of in the use of pregnancy prevention methods, and tighter morals are preferable to taking the life of an unborn. If you don't want a baby, don't participate, unprotected, in the activity that creates life. If you make such a mistake, it should be on you and your partner, not the life you've created. While I fully understand there are specific situations where an early term abortion my be necessary, I'll never buy into the reasoning or purpose for a partial birth abortion. That's just murder, plan and simple.

It is none of your business or the government's to decide for someone else. When or if you get pregnant, you can decide for yourself what is right, what is moral and what is best for you, the same as pregnant girls and women have done for thousands and thousands of years. It is not the proper role of a government to use its enormous power to force a girl or woman into child-birth against her will.