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Thread: Presidential eligibility may be determined by Congress

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  1. #1
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    Presidential eligibility may be determined by Congress

    "Some experts have suggested that the precise meaning of the natural-born-citizen clause may never be decided by the courts because, in the end, presidential eligibility may be determined to be a non-justiciable political question that can be decided only by Congress rather than by the judicial branch of government."


    Natural-born-citizen clause


    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Status as a natural-born citizen of the United States is one of the eligibility requirements established in the United States Constitution for election to the office of President or Vice President. This requirement was intended to protect the nation from foreign influence.[1]

    The U.S. Constitution uses but does not define the phrase "natural born Citizen", and various opinions have been offered over time regarding its precise meaning.

    The consensus of early 21st-century constitutional and legal scholars, together with relevant case law, is that natural-born citizens include, subject to exceptions, those born in the United States, and perhaps those born elsewhere if they meet the legal requirements for U.S. citizenship "at birth".[2]


    The natural-born-citizen clause has been mentioned in passing in several decisions of the United States Supreme Court, and by some lower courts that have addressed eligibility challenges, but the Supreme Court has never directly addressed the question of a specific presidential or vice-presidential candidate's eligibility as a natural-born citizen. Many eligibility lawsuits from the 2008 and 2012 election cycles were dismissed in lower courts due to the challengers' difficulty in showing that they had standing to raise legal objections. Additionally, some experts have suggested that the precise meaning of the natural-born-citizen clause may never be decided by the courts because, in the end, presidential eligibility may be determined to be a non-justiciable political question that can be decided only by Congress rather than by the judicial branch of government.[3][4]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natura...citizen_clause

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    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    Senior Member southBronx's Avatar
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    but we don't want him we want trump

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    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    January 15, 2016, 03:00 pm

    Courts should stay out of Cruz eligibility fight

    By Derek T. Muller


    As controversy swirls over Sen. Ted Cruz’s (R-Texas) eligibility to be president of the United States, there is one body that should not resolve that controversy: the federal courts.

    Cruz was born in Canada to a Cuban father and an American mother. Recent comments from Donald Trump and others have called into question whether he is a “natural born citizen,” a constitutionally required qualification. There are good reasons to believe that he is, but it is far from a settled question.


    Trump has suggested that Cruz should ask a court to declare him eligible. Others, like Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Laurence Tribe, have emphasized that the Supreme Court has yet to offer a definitive answer on the issue.
    But courts don’t have to hear such challenges. In fact, it’s probably best that they don’t. There are many other bodies capable of resolving this dispute without judicial involvement.

    First, we, the voters, can decide. If a significant number of voters believe that Cruz is ineligible, those voters can cast ballots for other candidates. The same held true for voters weighing McCain’s birthplace in the Panama Canal Zone, or Barack Obama’s birth to a Kenyan father in Hawaii.


    Voters can also moot the issue before it ever arises in a court. George Romney’s birth in Mexico, for instance, never became an issue—because he lost the election. While voters may not be voting for or against candidates because of their eligibility, they can render the issue irrelevant by voting for another candidate.


    Second, presidential electors can decide. Presidential electors, after all, are actually the ones who cast votes for the president and vice president. While electors are often pledged to a presidential candidate, they do not always cast their votes for that pledged candidate. Many “faithless” electors have cast their ballots for candidates other than those they pledged to support. And these electors may decide, quite sincerely, to refuse to cast their ballots for a candidate if they conclude he is not constitutionally qualified.


    And finally, Congress itself can decide. In 1800, Congress hotly debated whether it had the power to review the qualifications of candidates and the ballots cast by electors. Some thoughts Congress simply counted ballots; others thought Congress could review the qualifications and nullify votes cast for ineligible candidates.


    That debate effectively ended in 1872, when a house of Congress refused to count three electoral votes cast for Horace Greeley. Greeley had died after the election but before the presidential electors convened to vote. Most electors opted not to vote for a dead man and cast their ballots for other candidates. But three electors from Georgia voted for Greeley. When the House gathered to count the votes, it refused to count the three votes for Greeley, presumably because it believed that a dead man was not eligible to be the president of the United States.


    Indeed, Congress reasserted its authority just a few years ago. The Senate passed “Resolution Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, Is a Natural Born Citizen.” The Senate preemptively assured the people that McCain was a natural born citizen and that it would count electoral votes cast for him.


    Given that voters, electors, and Congress can review the eligibility for a candidate, is there really a need for a federal court to do so?


    States, after all, commonly list unqualified candidates on the ballot all the time. From the 1892 Prohibition Party’s vice presidential candidate, the 34-year-old James B. Cranfill, to the 2008 Socialist Worker’s Party presidential candidate, Nicaraguan Róger Calero. It is usually left to the political process, not the judicial process, to sort out eligibility.


    If states choose to pass laws calling for election officials to closely scrutinize a presidential candidate’s eligibility, and if states invite courts to participate in that process, they are likely within their rights to do so. But most states have understandably not done so. They have recognized that the decision best remains with the voters, presidential electors, and Congress. It should stay that way.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...gibility-fight

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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Congress can decide who is a citizen, but it can't decide who is a natural born citizen under Article II of the US Constitution without an Amendment to add words or take away words.
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    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by southBronx View Post
    but we don't want him we want trump
    You're not speaking for everyone. Personally, I 'd take Trump or Cruz.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    southBronx is speaking for "we" Trump Supporters.
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    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    Presidential eligibility may be determined by Congress

    (Not by people who post comments on the internet.)
    Last edited by JohnDoe2; 01-18-2016 at 12:53 PM.
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    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    Senior Member ReformUSA2012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Congress can decide who is a citizen, but it can't decide who is a natural born citizen under Article II of the US Constitution without an Amendment to add words or take away words.
    Actually they can by an Act of Congress stating to define Natural Born Citizen along with evidence as to why that would be the likely original meaning. The SCOTUS could of course take up the case as well and even possibly override it. But if its something left undefined per the US Constitution and it hasn't has a SCOTUS ruling on it then Congress has the power to define it as well.

    The tricky part for Congress would be trying to create a claim citing Natural Born Citizen is the same as a Citizen by the US Constitution which has Citizen, Natural Born Citizen, and Naturalized Citizen. They would struggle to have something that acceptable to ignore arguments against that an NBC is the same as a normal Citizen.

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