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02-26-2010, 06:19 PM #21
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Re: i
Originally Posted by vistalad
At my brother's school district in Canada, a teacher would make a home visit for each student, before the start of every school year. That way the teacher could better understand the chlld's home environment, and had an opportunity to discuss with the parents what they could do to assist their child academically.
You are absolutely right. For the kids who have no support, the school districts should be working with the parents to let them know why it is important for their kids to do well at school, and what it takes from the family to make it happen. Unfortunately, we have to ask our teachers to do even more to try and reach these kids, and undercut the parents' ant-education values.
My son went to school that was almost entirely Hispanic, only 11% white. I was PTA President, so was around the school and the kids a great deal. Very few Hispanic parents had any involvement with the school, whether it was the PTA. or Booster Club, or parent teacher meetings.
The Hispanic kids who had parental support did great. Some Hispanic kids with no support at all, with families who were homeless , living out of cars, rose above the situation and finished with full scholarships to college. It was truly remarkable. One even ended up at MIT.
Other Hispanic kids were well aware of the difference in terms of home support between the white and asian kids and themselves. They said they wished they had parents who would remind them of due dates for projects, review their work, etc. I tried to set up a "designated nag" program, asking other parents to mentor these kids, but did not get enough volunteers. But the kids who did have parental support, mainly whites and asians, set up an ad hoc system to help their fellow students. Those kids who wanted an education, of all races, were a pretty tight group.
But there was a large segment of the class, mostly Hispanic, who had not been taught the value of education, or how to approach it. Their parents said things like, " I ony have a grade 8 education, so why do you want to go to college, do you think you are better than me?" Some of the involved Hispanic parents explained to me that in Latino culture, a kid is considered an adult when they hit 13, and so the parents thinks their job is done when the kids reach high school, and the kids is on his own. They also need the kids to start working to supplement the family income. These kids are really being set up to failby their parents.
A big ^5 for your continued effort to help underperforming kids. Have you considered running for the school board itself? In our district, the school board trustees always turned up at the PTA District counsel meetings. It was a great opportunity to bend their ear one on one. Given the achievement gap, one would think that the educational powers that be would be willing to listen to any suggestion for improvement. But in my experience, if it is anything where the teachers' union has a say, it won't happen.Take a stand or all there will be left to do is to ask the last person in the country we once called America to lower the flag one last time.
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02-26-2010, 06:26 PM #22
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Originally Posted by GaPatriotTake a stand or all there will be left to do is to ask the last person in the country we once called America to lower the flag one last time.
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02-26-2010, 06:48 PM #23
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Originally Posted by AmericanElizabeth
The way you and your children were treated by your public school system is appalling!
It is tough when you have a teenager in full rebellion, and even tougher when the school districrt does not have program to help these kids.
In our district, here in CA,, and also at my sister in law's in VA, they have alternative high schools just for kids like your daughter, who, for whatever reason, do not fit into the normal high school routine. My niece went to one and from looking like she would be high school drop out, she went on to graduate, go to college and become a doctor. Not every kid fits the mold.
And your school should be trying to help find a tutor for your son. Even if the teachers' union won't allow the teachers to help out, or they don't want to, the school should have a list of organizations and people you can turn to. You should check with your PTA. It could also be that your son could be tutored by a fellow student (members of high school Key Clubs sometimes do this). You should also check at your locat colleges to see if they have any student volunteers. Another option would be to ask at a local senior's center if anyone would be willing to help out.
My son went to an almost all Hispanic school. In discussing it with the few Hispanic parents who were involved I found out:
1. In their culture, when you hit 13 you are considered an adult and many Hispanics, especially reccent arrivals, consider their parent role is over.
2. In their culture, they, espeically new arrivals, have absolute deference for educators. They think the teacher, being educated (and they are not) knows best. They will never question a teacher or make demands. They hand over their kids and leave it entirely up to the teacher.
3. The parents are often working 2 jobs and have no time for involvement.
4. They, especially new arrivals, don't value education. They think it is more important to get a job, and help the family. That is what they think being hard working means, not succeeding at school.
It is a real problem. We, of course know that you cannot have that attitude in a first world country like ours, and have your kids succeed.Take a stand or all there will be left to do is to ask the last person in the country we once called America to lower the flag one last time.
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02-26-2010, 06:55 PM #24
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Originally Posted by AmericanElizabethTake a stand or all there will be left to do is to ask the last person in the country we once called America to lower the flag one last time.
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02-26-2010, 09:02 PM #25
Re: i
Originally Posted by Bettybb
I have one of the kids I teach who is 15 years old. He has a learning disability and is under the special education program. There are lots of teachers involved with helping this kid and tons of taxpayer's money, yet he doesn't show up for school and despite the courts getting involved, his father doesn't make him come either. The parent has already paid a fine and even served some time in jail over it. Yet the kids still misses every other day. When he does come he will not do any work. Why? Because he is too busy skipping classes and getting high on inhalants. Last week he finally got caught with them and has now been sent to an alternative school. The kid is already a few brain cells short of a full deck and what does he do but try his best to kill more brain cells. In the mean time there is a full staff of professional adults doing the best to educate this kid. We make phone calls almost daily to get parents involved and they don't have much to say other then they want their kid to drop out and get a job. Yet this full staff of professional teachers is held accountable because children like that will fail state accountability exams putting our jobs in jeopardy. When mom and dad don't care how do you expect a kid to? How do you expect teachers to educate those who don't want to be educated?
Originally Posted by Bettybb
The second problem is inclusion....this means kids who are mentally retarded must be placed in the same classroom with kids who are Gifted and Talented kids. So you not only have to prepare one lesson plan for a class, you have to prepare 3. You are expected to teach slow enough that those with extreme learning disabilities can keep up, but at the same time challenge the gifted and talented. So what usually happens is we lose the smart ones because things move so slow and the slow ones don't want to learn. The smart ones and slow ones become disruptive so the ones in the middle can't learn. God forbid you send a kid to the office because now you are accused of not being able to handle classroom management. It's a catch 22 and teachers and kids always get the short end of the stick.
Now in this area there is a move to not pay extra pay for teachers who have graduate degrees. They say these have no impact on state accountability scores. How much extra pay are we talking about? $1000 for a master's and $1000 for a doctorate. What kind of message does this send to kids about the value of an education? Not too much considering how much other industries value education like this. Especially when there are not any teachers making 6 figure salaries, even after serving 35-40 years. Compare that to the superintendents of our local school districts who are making $400K+ a year (including benefits).
Teachers have been stepping up to the plate for years but somehow we always come out to be the scape goat for parents and politicians. What is going to happen is once jobs in America start coming back, there is going to be a huge Exodus from the teaching field. Lot of baby boomers who have years of experience are about fed up with being everyone's whipping boy. What happens if they all retire. Who is going to want to teach any more and be treated like this.
Originally Posted by BettybbCertified Member
The Sons of the Republic of Texas
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02-26-2010, 09:47 PM #26
That reminds me of the old saying, "You can lead a Horse to water, but you can't make it drink". There is no way those teachers can force the kids to do better IMO. Alot of kids don't do their homework in impoverished cities anyway.
The Lord is my Sheperd, I shall not want.
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02-26-2010, 11:36 PM #27
Bigtex, we begged and pleaded for help from doctors, school counselors and the principal, to no avail. We explained the issues we had with her, not normal rebellious behaviors, things such as out of control rages resulting in her smashing her fist into the walls (how many wall repairs we had to make to that place....), drinking, and also caught her "cutting" herself. Which once the "energy" of that rage was spent, she would go on her merry way as though it never happened.
We did wind up having someone from the ESD call upon us to state, although we had given them details on the problems, and the help we were trying to get, this woman from the ESD decided the problem resided with us as the parents and there simply must be some reason, due to us, that she was this troubled. We had no idea about what being bi-polar was, and no one in my family had dealt with it, so we could not have said "oh, we think it is bi-polar", no that was not even on our minds, but we knew there was a problem beyond being a hormonal teen girl or rebellious kid.
I cannot say how schools are in the rest of the nation, but, I know that for as long as I can remember, the schools here have been lousy, and this is not just my opinion, this is from many people I have known and just spoken to. The majority of the problem is out here, we seem to have drawn in all of the self-righteoues who govern the districts, and as well as those who are about as apathetic as a teen forced to work.
I really cannot say why there is such a problem in Oregon, might not even be as simple as one issue. That said, we have encountered some good teachers in this path, but unfortunately, they are hindered at every turn by administrators and heavy handed rules. Sad, considering these are the very people who could turn many kids lives around and really cared.
BettyBB, the stories I could tell you, going back to the days of my own school years (and that of my brother who has dyslexia, and was put in a class with mentally handicapped kids in high school), all the way to now with my own kids, would make you see red. Hey, only in Oregon, for some reason."In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, Brave, Hated, and Scorned. When his cause succeeds however,the timid join him, For then it costs nothing to be a Patriot." Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)
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02-26-2010, 11:54 PM #28
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If I were to guess, there is probably a plan already in the works to contract teachers from Mexico so that the "kids" can have teachers that understand them, their culture and the language. I think it's coming. They will probably disguise things as budget cuts or money shortages so they can fire good ol' American teachers and replace them with cheaper labor they can import or find locally. I'd keep an eye on this and see how they disguise it in other states.
They place unreasonable demands on teachers so they either quit or get replaced. Teachers cannot make all kids do well. It's just like in life. Some do better than others. Wouldn't it be nice if society made us all earn brain surgeon salaries? Yet they expect teachers to perform miracles. Some kids do better than others. Parents just need to learn to accept that and appreciate their kids for the talents they may have and not lay blame on teachers when their kids fails in school. The more I visit my kids in school, the more I see how Hispanics are now over 50% of the school body. It's insane. You really get a feeling that our schools are turning into Mexicoville and we're losing our cultural identity to Mexico. Yet Mexico is not losing its identity to us.
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02-27-2010, 12:59 AM #29
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Re: i
Originally Posted by bigtex
There is absolutely no reason why teachers should have to put up with discpline problems or disruptive kids, or kids who do not conform.
But it is not the parents and kids who created the situation.
It has been created by what I call Education, Inc. That is the numerous education committees, and county offices of education, and school district administration, and the teachers union.
The second problem is inclusion....this means kids who are mentally retarded must be placed in the same classroom with kids who are Gifted and Talented kids. So you not only have to prepare one lesson plan for a class, you have to prepare 3. You are expected to teach slow enough that those with extreme learning disabilities can keep up, but at the same time challenge the gifted and talented. So what usually happens is we lose the smart ones because things move so slow and the slow ones don't want to learn. The smart ones and slow ones become disruptive so the ones in the middle can't learn. God forbid you send a kid to the office because now you are accused of not being able to handle classroom management. It's a catch 22 and teachers and kids always get the short end of the stick.
Now in this area there is a move to not pay extra pay for teachers who have graduate degrees. They say these have no impact on state accountability scores. How much extra pay are we talking about? $1000 for a master's and $1000 for a doctorate. What kind of message does this send to kids about the value of an education? Not too much considering how much other industries value education like this. Especially when there are not any teachers making 6 figure salaries, even after serving 35-40 years. Compare that to the superintendents of our local school districts who are making $400K+ a year (including benefits).
I would love to see teachers follow the private sector rules. They should receive bonuses if their kids improve above the norm. Their salaries should be set by market forces, and they should have no job security. If you want the benefits of the private sector, you have to take the negatives too. Frankly, does a masters or doctorate really help a grade school teacher? But that would be completely different for a high school teacher who is teaching an AP course. I would presume the school administration would want to pay more for better qualifications.
Teachers have been stepping up to the plate for years but somehow we always come out to be the scape goat for parents and politicians. What is going to happen is once jobs in America start coming back, there is going to be a huge Exodus from the teaching field. Lot of baby boomers who have years of experience are about fed up with being everyone's whipping boy. What happens if they all retire. Who is going to want to teach any more and be treated like this.
In the present economy, with the number of professionals and middle management people without work, I do not think there would be any problem filling all the boomers jobs.
Originally Posted by Bettybb
You should not assume. We had our daughter evaluated by specialists, and medical doctors from the age 8 onward,and the schools were also aware of our concerns. But our daughter was a top academic achiever, junior olympic level athelete, and a school leader. She was not a behavior problem. Yet her behavior was odd, and of course, the over achieving is a system of mania.
I was not critizing the school in my remarks to AmericanElizabeth. The fact is, in 2010 we know far more about bi polar illnes than we did even 10 years ago. But it is my experience that schools are very late to incorporate new medical theory into their system. Even now, in our district, parents have to fight for their kids who have disablities. I have a friend who moved to Texas. In her district, they test all kids in grade one.
Smart move.Take a stand or all there will be left to do is to ask the last person in the country we once called America to lower the flag one last time.
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02-27-2010, 01:10 AM #30
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AmericanElizabeth.
Man, you really went through the ringer. And I have heard of others with dyslexia who have had the same thing happen to them.
Did you know a very large percentage of people in prision have been found to have learning disabilities? If our schools were more atuned, how many of these kids could receive the appropriate help, and avoid the downward spiral that failure in school can cause?
A friend who has a developementally delayed child put her child into a school district in Texas where they test all the kids in first grade. That is just so smart.Take a stand or all there will be left to do is to ask the last person in the country we once called America to lower the flag one last time.
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