Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 64

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon (pronounced "ore-ee-gun")
    Posts
    8,464
    [Transcriber returns .... I think!]

    Dorgan has floor,

    Is speaking regarding effect of large numbers of IAs on blue-collar US workers.

    Quotes articles/research by George Borjas, Samuelson, etc.


    We need to deal first with border security.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    12,855
    Sorry for the trouble PHRED.

    There's something within the hidden text concerning our 2nd A and I'm very concerned.

    My mind is one track, lol.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon (pronounced "ore-ee-gun")
    Posts
    8,464
    After border security, then we can deal with the 12 million IAs already here.

    It's a different issue than Bord Sec.

    It's the same as we did 20 years ago - in fact, let's set a date for us to meet again in 10 years and deal with this again, etc.


    There's a lot of discussion in the senate about things related to immigration.

    I would love to see a discussion about int'l trade. The shipping of jobs overseas - to china, india, etc. it's the flip side of outsourcing of jobs.

    Big business has convinced this congress that we have to bring in foreign workers to replace Americans in their jobs.

    [He is doing a good job of pleading the case for working-class americans]

    Biggest interests have stalled off increase in min. wage, etc.

    He says that Dec 31 of last year is artifical cut-off date. Is meaningless in determining who should be legal or not.

    Top 1% of US have seen dramatic increases in income. Bottom 20% have stalled or declined. I think we need an aggressive debate on how we treat those Americans. We are not doing the bidding of the lowest 20% of Americans.

    This is the wrong approach.

    We first need to have border security.

    There's not border protection that's gonna work.

    It is intended to put downward pressure on American workers.


    Yields to Kyl...

    Kyl Speaking...

    Clerk re-reading bill summary:

    Sen. Salazar to speak soon

    Working out order of amendments - and voting method.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    TEXAS - The Lone Star State
    Posts
    16,941
    Quote Originally Posted by CountFloyd
    So do you think there's any truth to the rumor that Reid/McConnell are going to rush this thing through without letting any amendments be proposed?
    Reid said there was not even 20 amendments that need to be voted on. yet the program alert for Lou Dobbs tonight says there is more than 100..

    so what do ya think????? is reid the traitor from NEVADA lying again?

  5. #25
    Senior Member tinybobidaho's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    10,184
    Kyl is a jerk! I wonder if he realizes how foolish he looks when he stands there talking about all the violence caused illegals, when the American people know that all of that would stop if they enforced the laws.

    We don't need a bill to do that!!!!!!!
    RIP TinybobIdaho -- May God smile upon you in his domain forevermore.

    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon (pronounced "ore-ee-gun")
    Posts
    8,464
    Salazar has floor...

    I am mindful of the history / progression of immigration leg., etc.

    Hopefully, by end of the week we'll be in a position where we can vote on bill.

    1 It is a matter of nat'l security.
    After 9/11, it has become apparent we need to secure the border.

    2 We are a nation of laws - need to have tough enforcement

    3 Economic 'realities' - dealing with GW program, etc

    Note - progress made during last week on leg. disposed of 13 of 107 amendments filed.

    Have 14 amendments pending, scheduled to begin voting on those tomorrow.

    Pres. has spoken on issue. He's taken a lot of heat.

    A lot of us have taken a lot of heat on issue too

    We need to do what is right for country.

    Some argue - that doing nothing - 'enforcement only approach' will not work. History shows that this approach has never worked.

    I appreciate Kyl leadership, and others.

    I say we can forge a solution to the problem, that problem is solvable.

    Yields to Kyl...


    Kyl Speaking...

    We cannot allow this problem to continue to fester.

    We can come up with a resolution to problem.

    Sen ND said a moment ago, we need to find a way to address problem -
    we have tried to find a way - although not everyone will agree with what we've come up with.

    You cannot get most of what you want without a comprise at some point.

    No one will get 100% of what they believe is the right solution.

    Everyone will have to give up something.

    I want to explain, a couple things that came from constituents during recess:

    Asked by reporter : 'Why I was doing this?

    Last year, I didn't have chance to participate in crafting legistlation.
    It was not possible to change that bill - this year different.

    In US - and AZ - condition is getting worse every day. Some solution needs to be in place soon. Even if, solution is not perfect.

    Every day, thousands of 'immigrants' keeping streaming across border every day.

    Crime/smuggling is increasing every day.

    Because BP is getting more effective, that violence is increasing in / around border areas - because of their desperation.
    (Refers to shoot-out on freeway of Phoenix between rival smuggling gangs. )

    Is 'infecting' our state to an unacceptable degree.

    Many are career criminals - wanted for a crime.

    Many are hard-working, but some are criminals.
    Some could be terrorists too.

    What is AZ diff. from other states. ?
    1. Violence assoc w/problem
    2. Environmental degradation - dramatic effect on all border areas.
    w/ little regard for environment (lists many ways of the bad effect on locals...)

    This is the best way I know how to deal with problem - not sit on sidelines, etc.

    Is it perfect? no way. Are there things in it I don't like. Absolutely.

    What my constituents told me in last 2 weeks:

    "Why do you think a new law would be enforced, when existing laws aren't enforced?"

    No previous history of any enforcement by anyone. - not even sig. attempt to enforce the law.

    Even current laws are not being adequately enforced.

    It is wrong to accuse those of asking this question - call them 'bigots', 'restrictions', xenophobes', etc.

    These are decent hard-working tax-paying Americans that are mad because their gov't has let them down.

    Remember folks, we work for THEM, so does the Pres, - they have a RIGHT to ask that question.

    How are you doing to enforce the law?

    We all understood that 1986 attempt wasn't enforced. We tried to avoid past problems - by including provisions that ensuring that some enforcement gets done. That's why we included trigger provisions.

    1. Increase in #s of BP agents. 20,000 BP agents probably not enough

    2. Fencing - at least 370 miles complete before trigger. 300 miles of vehicle barriers, 4 UAVs, more detention space, 70 new radar towers, etc.

    3. Up and operating EEVS (Emp. Elec. Verification Sys) - checking of workers for legal status.
    Fed Govt rarely does audits to ensure people following system.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon (pronounced "ore-ee-gun")
    Posts
    8,464
    New bill requires gov't to do validation - not business.

    1 You can determine SS eligibility is real.

    2 You can determine who individ. is.

    Employer will have ability to view identity of individ, etc.

    A system will be put into place to make it easier to verify identity of indiv.


    Difficult sanctions put in place - now $75000k not just 250$ for violating law in future.

    This will work - border security combined with difficulty for IAs finding work will be much more effective.

    3. In 1986 - couldn't prosecute for fraud for fraudulent claims - it is in this leg. This will be enforced unlike the past.

    Will law be enforced?

    Why would you oppose a change? - even OLD law is not being enforced.
    Why not just enforce current law? (listing loopholes w/ respect to illegal employment - esp for businesses)

    Let me mention a couple more things..

    1 A lot of colleagues say 'we can't go along because it represents amnesty'
    What would we like to see done? - is the real question.

    If allowing IAs to stay is amnesty - then status quo is amnesty.

    What we want to do - is to force them to appreciate that they did something wrong, and do compensatory stuff to make them legal (pay fine, - blah, blah, etc)
    If you violate these provisions - then you're going to have to go home.
    [????]

    2. No automatic path to citizenship - now, we have merit-based factor .

    3. No more chain-migration (allowing in non-nuclear family).
    This bill does away with CM once current backlog is clearedup.


    Re:upcoming amendments on the bill...

    Some are good, some are unsure, etc. and we can vote on those.

    Some of these go right to the heart of the negotiated core bill.
    These are 'killer' amendments.

    Example: we have a TW program. Ability to work and return home.
    Some want to make this a perm. worker program.
    We already have a program for that.

    (He is cautioning against substantial amendments that are designed to 'kill the bill')
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon (pronounced "ore-ee-gun")
    Posts
    8,464
    Kyl con't:

    We already have 150k GC / year.

    Another 107k / yr for H1bs


    Another killer amendment - CM: even though some people would never get here on family visa. ex: Backlog for Mexico 176 yrs under family visa.
    Long for many other countries.

    Amendment moves consideration date from 2004 to 5/2005 to 5/2007 (today).

    Another deals with spouses + children - there is a cap and a waiting period.
    'Eliminates C-ship/legal perm. residence. Citizenship has got to mean something in this country.'

    My point - is that I am anxious to solve problem, but to ensure that employment is legal, border is secured, etc we also appreciate our extensive earlier negotiations,

    If other amendments pass, I will no longer support the leg. - unless a bi-partisan bill is produced, then this will become an exerise in futility.

    Some senators will introduce 'deal killer' amendments. Please do not vote for those....

    Yields...


    Sessions has floor.

    I appreciate Sen Kyl, but I cannot support him on this deal.
    that a small group of sens can meet behind closed doors and create a bill that we're all supposed to support.

    We ought to be able to amend this thing and I hope we will.

    I'll add:

    I do believe - we need effect imm reform legislation. I hoped that the current discussion would result in bill far superior than last years.
    Upon reading fine print does not effectuate principles outlined beforehand.
    Ex: Trigger - enforcement measures in place BEFORE amnesty would occur. Very little teeth in bill.

    Promised: end Chain Migration; bill allows imediate great increase in CM in short term.

    TW program - concerned, will not work. Allows entry / visits by close family member - potential for overstays more illegal stays.

    Dec 31 2004 - Before that, illegal border jumpers - inc. gang members - will be allowed to stay and gain c-ship in US.

    Bill said to facilitate assimilation - emphasize English, amnesty grantees will not have to produce skills for 12 years.

    Earned Income Tax Credit - also provided for Z visa immediately.
    Designed for working poor Americans.

    About documentation - prior presence to 12/2004 - massive opportunity for fraud.,

    I have listed 20 loopholes with current bill as proposed - we didn't include others in our list.


    Problem is: the mindset indicates a lack of commitment to create a lawful sys of immigration, and stronger move toward a merit-based system.

    I salute my senators for minor steps in good aspects, but the bill as-is is not sufficient.

    I think we ought to create a system that serves our national interest, etc.

    I am afraid this bill does not.

    Yields to Domenici...


    Domenici speaking...

    I appreciate sessions....
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  9. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon (pronounced "ore-ee-gun")
    Posts
    8,464
    Domenici...

    Addresses work of Kyl on bill:

    I respect you, a terrific senator...(blah, blah)
    Same goes for Salazar, and Kennedy, etc.

    (Is mostly filler material about nature of working in senate)

    Some people just 'don't get it'. We have an immigration system that does not work.

    We have no border control left. Our BP tell us all the time - 1000s come across and we can't stop them. We don't have a comp. law, to stop and deport them.
    We do law enforcement by 'good faith'.

    We have about reached a point where we have abandoned rule of law.

    [transcriber break - going to change machines momentarily - ETA is 5 minutes]
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  10. #30
    Senior Member CountFloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Occupied Territories, Alta Mexico
    Posts
    3,008
    Some people just 'don't get it'. We have an immigration system that does not work.
    Of course we "get" it. The immigration systems created by you clowns doesn't work. It doesn't work because you only enforced the amnesty part of it, just like you'll do this time.

    We get it loud and clear.
    It's like hell vomited and the Bush administration appeared.

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •