Thread: From Senior Citizen League on Medicare and Social Sec.

This is the June Newsletter from TSCL


Ask the Advisor: June 2011 Advisor

Q: The best way to help Social Security and Medicare is get people off the rolls who don't belong there — the non-citizens who have come here illegally, and their dependents who have never paid into Social Security. Wouldn’t there be enough to take care of the seniors we already have if we did?

A: It’s hard to know because no official government estimates seem to exist. Just how do illegal workers wind up on Social Security rolls? In order to get jobs they often provide employers with invalid, fake, or even stolen Social Security numbers. Employers withhold payroll taxes as required by law and wage reports are sent in to the Social Security Administration (SSA). If the name and Social Security number reported by employers doesn’t match those in the SSA’s records, the “mismatched reports are placed in an “Earnings Suspense File.

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One large falsity about SS/Medicare/Medicaid is the fact that not only seniors draw from these funds. I know people in there 30's who receive greater benefits from government then myself and my spouse in our 70's.

Medicaid is a welfare fund, one of the larger problems is corruptions and misuse of funds. Does anyone believe that if today SS was cut in half for all seniors the money would be used wisely and pay down the debt, no it would go to some third world, perhaps some to politicans pockets.

Yes, we must fix entitlements but to do so we need a top down approach cut pay at the top,eliminate corruption, put people in jail who misuse the system. Without all this we are simply shoveling dirt into the wind....

I would gladly give up my SS if it were to restore my country to what it once was but with the garbage we have in DC it will be a long tough battle.

I know for a fact that the SSA grants waivers for legal immigrants who come over in there older years some who never work a day in their life in the US. Those waivers waive the 40 credit requirement to draw SS benefits basically meaning a legal immigrant can come over at the age of 64 and next year at 65 claim retired and get SS benefits. The reasoning the SSA has stated in the past is they expected that these immigrants paid into a similiar program in their own country thus shouldn't "lose" that just because they immigrated.

Ontop of that after one of those immigrants gets on SS and dies their children/spouse and so forth can also claim SS death benefits and such which can go on for ages and for children until the age of 18 I believe.

Then add in many illegals do skirt the system and still get away with it some doing the same thing basically stealing an identity and using it to lay a claim. Of course you don't see much in the news about elderly trying to claim SS when they retire to have the SSA tell them they have already been recieving it for years because of an illegal alien stealing their identity. Hell, the SSA doesn't even try and help said person fix the problem and instead accuses the person of fraud and they have to get an SS attorney to fight and fix the problem.

Then also I never understood the thinking of why if "Joe" works enough to get SS when he retires why when he dies is his kids entitled to it (maybe if he dies at a young age before retirement). What about a divorced spouse you were married to for 5 years or just married recently before died? Now I can understand giving credits for spouses as one may be a homemaker and the other working assuming a long marriage (10+ years min) IF they have kids. But I don't see why since there's now 2 vs 1 the min credits isn't raised for spouses jointly.

I'd rather SS be changed to work just like a retirement account. You put in money as YOU are working and when YOU retire it starts paying YOU. Screw YOUR SS paying for you, your spouse, your kids, and your cousin twice removed and so on. People forget that SS just like Medicaid was NOT created to ever be the end all be all. Both were created to be assistants to what an elderly person already established in their life mainly in the case of things falling through before or during retirement.

People forget that SS just like Medicaid was NOT created to ever be the end all be all. Both were created to be assistants to what an elderly person already established in their life mainly in the case of things falling through before or during retirement.

Your right but when it was created most working people had some sort of pension and in a lot of cases medical benefits from working with their employer with their employee benefit package....Tell me now what has happened to that...I believe in a lot of places it was replaced with 401Ks....with a portion matched by the employers, Now you are finding that very little in the work place, it is slowly being done a way with in fact most have stopped the match completely if they have a 401K. Not to mention the employers were and still are in control of your money in your 401K and you couldn't even put it where you wanted you had to use their provider. Good bad or indifferent...If it was or is your money you should have a choice of where to put it or have financial advise to make it grow in a beneficial place for you... Too me if that practice isn't a scam I don't know what is.... So sure SS was created to provide extra, along with savings, and pensions, but, in today's working world there are very few pension benefits afforded to workers so the average worker needs some protection, that is why paying into the SS fund and Medicare is important..Oh but wait, now everyone calls them entitlements and wants to make them a bad word all of a sudden...interesting don't ya think?????? More interesting the government thinks its okay to give it freely to people who don't pay into it...now who is getting the entitlement..not me and my family we have paid into it over 50 years right out of our pay checks....as I am sure the majority of everyone else here has as well...Maybe they need to put the money they stole from it back before they take their own benefits....my opinion of course.


Kathyet

1. Any realistic approach to reducing the national debt MUST deal with the long poles in the tent, i.e., the largest expenses in the budget.

2. The largest expenses in the budget are Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid.

3. The problem with MEDICAID is that it is a strictly socialist program to which most participants have probably paid little or nothing to fund it. It comes straight from the taxpayers.

4. The problem with Social Security and MEDICARE is that they are "managed" by the government. As part of this astute management structure the government placed all of the taxes collected to fund these programs into the General Fund. This bit of book-keeping chicanery enable the Democrats and the Republicans to hide the true deficits being incurred, and depleted anything that might resemble a "lock box" for future payouts to legitimate recipients.

5. The best answer to this problem, I believe, is the Ryan Plan (or at least something akin to it) that takes the Medicare and Social Security program out of the hands of the Congress (actually, I mean takes the MONEY out of the hands of the Congress). Can a private plan work? I think so. I have one that I paid into for 12 years. Four per cent. After 12 years, and retiring before age 62, the plan payments equal 50 per cent of my Social Security benefits into which I paid for 48 years (starting at 6 per cent [3 from me and 3 matched by my employer] and ending at 15 per cent during my last 12 years [7.5 from me and 7.5 from my employer]. If you want to back Medicare out of the last 12 years I would guess that would lower the SS tax to around 11 or 12 per cent. Still, that is around THREE times the amount I paid to my private plan just over 12 years, not counting the other 36 years I paid into SS. Yep. Private plans can work, with guaranteed benefits. And the government could always underwrite the plans (for a tax, I mean, a modest fee).

6. One of the major advantages of privatization is that recipients will get paid from their own private account which will be derived from their investment. Consequently, the government and the taxpayers will not be on the hook for trillions of dollars of unfunded obligations as they are now. And if illegal aliens happen to collect something this way, at least it will not paid in US tax dollars.

7. If privatization is too hard to swallow, at least move the SS and Medicare tax receipts out of the general fund and do not allow the government to use it. Period. Not as general funds. Not as a source to borrow from (like Geitner is doing right now with federal pension plans).
Not as a source for the Fed to sell treasury bills to.

8. As for Medicaid, major overhaul is required. One, to confirm the recipients are US citizens. Immigrants here legally that require EMERGENCY care would not be denied service but their sponsor and/or employer should be billed. The same is true for anyone here illegally. If no 'sponsor' or employer can be identified, bill their country of origin.

9. Everyone should understand that Social Security was never intended to be THE retirement program for people. It was intended as a 'social safety net' that has turned into a political trampoline. Likewise, Medicare and Medicaid should be protection against CATASTROPHIC medical conditions, not coverage every bloody nose, flu shot, pregnancy, cold, sniffle, stubbed toe or drug overdose.

9. Everyone should understand that Social Security was never intended to be THE retirement program for people. It was intended as a 'social safety net' that has turned into a political trampoline. Likewise, Medicare and Medicaid should be protection against CATASTROPHIC medical conditions, not coverage every bloody nose, flu shot, pregnancy, cold, sniffle, stubbed toe or drug overdose.

As I said that was when most every who worked was either in a benefit program with Insurance and Pensions for retirement through their employer and or worked for Federal or State municipalities with benefits for retirement, where are those jobs now????? Oh wait, we still have the government jobs but very few of the others.... When medicare and SS# started very few did not have these type of jobs. . So you had the three things savings, pension and SS#/Medicare.

Of course we need do something for future generations but future generations needs those jobs and benefits not the crap that is going on now.... And this government needs to put the monies they stole back and stop giving it to people that haven't paid into it. They are still stealing from us and were sitting still letting it happen....The battle cry isn't " stop the entitlements" It should be "cut the waste and stop spending like drunkin' sailors". They are stealing from the American Tax Payer and were all sitting here worrying about grandma getting a Social Security check......Do you know just how much money these jacka--es get from us all, and yet they can't balance a budget they need to borrow???? Wake up and smell the roses.....the more they cry poor mouth the more they are stealing....


You want to stop Social Security and Medicare then bring back the jobs with the insurance and pensions for all workers with a retirement plan.....



Kathyet

You want to stop Social Security and Medicare then bring back the jobs with the insurance and pensions for all workers with a retirement plan.....

I don't recall the US ever being in that position. Most jobs in the US come from small businesses which cannot afford generous pension plans. Never could. Large corporations, particularly those with strong unions such as the UAW, yes. Small businesses....darn few. That is why SS was so appealing to people. It was something vs nothing. I am all for it. I am just against the government running it and having access to the money that the workers have put into it.

As to bringing back the jobs, that will not happen until the job-killers are removed from the government. That includes the globalists, one-worlders, backers of so-called free trade agreements, tax and spenders, and opponents of right to work states. I do not think any of that will happen on a large scale until we eliminate legal bribery, i.e., special interest lobbying in the form of huge campaign donations.

Originally Posted by 4thHorseman

You want to stop Social Security and Medicare then bring back the jobs with the insurance and pensions for all workers with a retirement plan.....

I don't recall the US ever being in that position. Most jobs in the US come from small businesses which cannot afford generous pension plans. Never could. Large corporations, particularly those with strong unions such as the UAW, yes. Small businesses....darn few. That is why SS was so appealing to people. It was something vs nothing. I am all for it. I am just against the government running it and having access to the money that the workers have put into it.

As to bringing back the jobs, that will not happen until the job-killers are removed from the government. That includes the globalists, one-worlders, backers of so-called free trade agreements, tax and spenders, and opponents of right to work states. I do not think any of that will happen on a large scale until we eliminate legal bribery, i.e., special interest lobbying in the form of huge campaign donations.

I am in total agreement...that is why we are in a fight for our countries sovereignty. If we can rid of these traitors to our country, we can still bring these things back we have many industrious people here with knowledge and hutzpah to accomplish great things...But as long as we are under the thumb of these gross thieving people we will see nothing but total slavery. We need to get away from this global world crap and stop doing the bidding of those that want to usher it in.

As for the jobs of yesteryear when I grew up we had many employers that provided many of those things of course not all but many. Many construction companies even today still provide those things this was after WW11 and before Vietnam There were....Union and Non union in fact there are some trades even today that still do, but fewer and fewer because of cheap labor. That is when it was slowly starting cheap labor, automation and jobs slowly going overseas. More profit for the big companies. But we did have tons of manufacturing jobs, steel industries jobs, auto dealerships, and a big auto industry, airline production, large shoe factory's tons of factories of all kinds that paid decent wages. enough to send most of the kids to college for a better life. We had General Electric, IBM was in the States, many different Insurance companies, many engineering jobs...My father was an insurance salesman he was fully covered and had some form of a pension but what it was I have no idea he died at a very young age my step mother supported my brothers on her paycheck working at the GE. There are so many different companies that I cannot even remember them all. We did it all here in this country. Think of your parents and grand parents and the kinds of jobs they worked at. Even if they did not have pensions or insurance the costs of things were lower and things were manageable for most folks...They are not today, not even close, and it is about to get worse if we can't come together and get rid of these people trying to destroy of Country.

Kathyet

We had General Electric, IBM was in the States, many different Insurance companies, many engineering jobs

I agree with you. But we, all of us, are to blame at least in part. We allow states like California, New York, and Pennsylvania to tax businesses to the point it is cheaper for them to move out of the state, and sometimes out of the country (Remember Hershey Candy company?) We also allow states to force closed union shops on companies which invariably increases the cost of labor to a non-competitive level (we are probably already uncompetitive wage wise without additional union costs). As consumers we want the lowest price allowable. And we continue to send politicians to Washington who negotiate trade agreements that are of best value to the special interest groups lobbying our representatives, but not in our best interests. Imports that are cheaper because they are junk (Made in China?), contaminated (made in China?), manufactured without any imposition of safety or environmental standards (made in China? Mexico? Central/South America? India?), manufactured by child labor, slave labor, and/or virtual slave labor (see countries listed above) are not really cheaper in the long run. They surely do not meet the standard for what I would call "free trade". All of these contribute to the loss of jobs and job opportunities. Worse, they suppress entrepreneurship, which is like eating our seed corn and then wondering why there are no new crops.

Originally Posted by 4thHorseman

We had General Electric, IBM was in the States, many different Insurance companies, many engineering jobs

I agree with you. But we, all of us, are to blame at least in part. We allow states like California, New York, and Pennsylvania to tax businesses to the point it is cheaper for them to move out of the state, and sometimes out of the country (Remember Hershey Candy company?) We also allow states to force closed union shops on companies which invariably increases the cost of labor to a non-competitive level (we are probably already uncompetitive wage wise without additional union costs). As consumers we want the lowest price allowable. And we continue to send politicians to Washington who negotiate trade agreements that are of best value to the special interest groups lobbying our representatives, but not in our best interests. Imports that are cheaper because they are junk (Made in China?), contaminated (made in China?), manufactured without any imposition of safety or environmental standards (made in China? Mexico? Central/South America? India?), manufactured by child labor, slave labor, and/or virtual slave labor (see countries listed above) are not really cheaper in the long run. They surely do not meet the standard for what I would call "free trade". All of these contribute to the loss of jobs and job opportunities. Worse, they suppress entrepreneurship, which is like eating our seed corn and then wondering why there are no new crops.

Very well said, but when you say we...I am more of the thought that We got the Rug pulled out from under US by our own government working hand in hand with Corporations and Unions conspiring against the American people in the best way they could to take our country away..Yes we are more than partly at fault, because, we were all asleep at the wheel. We all went for the great deals and great quality as they came along in everything putting our own people out of work...Now look where it has got us all. As Stan would say "another fine mess you got us into Ollie" It is going to be very painful to correct if we can.

I remember trying to tell people many of these things many years ago maybe 20/30yrs ago, as I saw some of these things unfolding. They looked at me like was a ditzy housewife...and all I got for an answer was if your job goes South get more education...My thought was "really" for what? What will this more education thing bring???? Look at the Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Airline industry, Unions, Engineers everyone is out of work and they are hiring from out of the country to replace them. What is worse is that our Government officials are helping it happen...Have you been in a hospital lately???? No one speaks English!!!! I can not imagine being really sick and not being able to tell your nurse how you feel!!!!!! It is so hard to go and visit anyone in those places now they are filthy, grubby places and you have to leave a friend or family member in them to there own defenses while your gone...



Kathyet