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  1. #11
    Senior Member 4thHorseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie
    The US has a reasoned policy for admissions. The US has a guestworker program. What the US needs is a way to easily deport and find illegal aliens that have gone out of status and are visa overstays. The President needs to enforce our existing immigration laws, not create new ones, to cover up the mess he has created.

    According to Lou Dobbs we have NINETEEN separate guest worker programs.What the business activists for open borders want are MORE programs, preferably those that force the American Taxpayer to subsidize the cheap labor so the employers can rack up bigger profits. This is not FREE TRADE as I was taught it. The suggestion that we need to develop a system for encouraging support from our Southern neighbors has some merit, but I believe is flawed on several levels:
    a. The government estimates that over 40% of illegal aliens in the USA today came here LEGALLY, ostensibly under one of the above 19 programs, or on some form of visitor's visa. And they don't all hail from Mexico and points south. They come from just about every corner of the world.
    b. I do not believe in rewarding nations who are already actively screwing us.
    c. The US government has proven over and over that it is unwilling and/or unable to manage any aspect of immigration law. They cannot even get US Passports issued in a reasonable period of time. As noted above, they cannot track visa expiration dates. They admit there are over 500,000 illegal aliens in this country who are convicted felons and are supposed to be deported, but they cannot find them. There is no earthly way these bureaucrats are going to effectively manage an additional program using a rather complex point system
    "We have met the enemy, and they is us." - POGO

  2. #12
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    If the US tries to foot the bill alone - and beins removing 10 - 11 million illegals to their country of orign - it will be a HUGE national cost.

    currently - even quite conservative estimates say that there are nearly 11 million undocumented illegals in the U.S. -

    The awarding of credits and partial credits is a way of encouranging participation and cooperation in the process of removing unwanted foreign nationals from American territory without increasing the number of foreigners who are here.
    The partial credits are awarded to each country which helps in the process of removing the worker from U.S. soil

    The whole process is predicated on the idea of introducing a strict discipline into the immigration process and the credits are a part of the discipline.

    I hear many commentators on the topic of illegals in this country often say that they can conceive of no way to remove so large a number of illegals from the US.

    I am trying to start a debate on that issue - since I think it can be done.

  3. #13
    Senior Member BorderLegionnaire's Avatar
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    Maybe a bit dated but still a fact...

    What Would It Cost to Deport Illegal Aliens?
    by Mac Johnson
    Posted: 08/01/2005

    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=8387

    Imagine that you came home tomorrow and found a stranger living in your home. Would you pay $148 to have him removed, or would you instead just legally adopt him and give him the run of the place to save the $148? The Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank in Washington, D.C., thinks the “practicalâ€
    Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy.
    -Ron Paul

  4. #14
    smde's Avatar
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    LOL - this is an idea that had not occurred to me - but seems also promising - Borderlegionnaire worte in his comment...
    [quote]Also, I can find about 445 illegal aliens standing on one street corner in Somerville, Massachusetts each morning. Perhaps the government can just ask me where to find illegals for less than $17,603 per pop? And these guys are really easy to capture. All you have to do is pull up in a pick-up truck, yell: “FIVE DOLLARS PER HOUR!â€

  5. #15
    Senior Member BorderLegionnaire's Avatar
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    [quote="smde"]LOL - this is an idea that had not occurred to me - but seems also promising - Borderlegionnaire worte in his comment...
    [quote]Also, I can find about 445 illegal aliens standing on one street corner in Somerville, Massachusetts each morning. Perhaps the government can just ask me where to find illegals for less than $17,603 per pop? And these guys are really easy to capture. All you have to do is pull up in a pick-up truck, yell: “FIVE DOLLARS PER HOUR!â€
    Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy.
    -Ron Paul

  6. #16
    Senior Member 4thHorseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie
    The US has a reasoned policy for admissions. The US has a guestworker program. What the US needs is a way to easily deport and find illegal aliens that have gone out of status and are visa overstays. The President needs to enforce our existing immigration laws, not create new ones, to cover up the mess he has created.
    According to Lou Dobbs we have NINETEEN separate guest worker programs.What the business activists for open borders want are MORE programs, preferably those that force the American Taxpayer to subsidize the cheap labor so the employers can rack up bigger profits. This is not FREE TRADE as I was taught it. The suggestion that we need to develop a system for encouraging support from our Southern neighbors has some merit, but I believe is flawed on several levels:
    a. The government estimates that over 40% of illegal aliens in the USA today came here LEGALLY, ostensibly under one of the above 19 programs, or on some form of visitor's visa. And they don't all hail from Mexico and points south. They come from just about every corner of the world.
    b. I do not believe in rewarding nations who are already actively screwing us.
    c. The US government has proven over and over that it is unwilling and/or unable to manage any aspect of immigration law. They cannot even get US Passports issued in a reasonable period of time. As noted above, they cannot track visa expiration dates. They admit there are over 500,000 illegal aliens in this country who are convicted felons and are supposed to be deported, but they cannot find them. There is no earthly way these bureaucrats are going to effectively manage an additional program using a rather complex point system
    "We have met the enemy, and they is us." - POGO

  7. #17
    smde's Avatar
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    CHAnge Change Change

    The current situation would be GREATLY helped if we enforced the laws in place already and held employers who hired illegals accountable.
    but the fact remains that there are already some 10 - 11 millions illegal already in country - making money , and receiving the tacit support of their governments and people, etc... you know ,, La Raza , etc....

    The political situation with these countries simply has to change for there to be a political change ...
    Wnen the latino countries , who are after all opportunists, see that there is no benefit in pursuing the policies in place which currently promote illegal immigration and that there is a benefit in following a system that removes illegals. They will consider cooperating.
    Currently Mexico has no political incentive to help us to remove Someone from Salvador.

    Unless we offer them some benefit that they can explain politically to their own people as to why they are aiding the United States in removing people from other latin countries. they will be reluctant since they risk criticism at home and from the other latin countries as well

    Doing nothing about the situation - leaves it the way it is .

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by smde
    If the US tries to foot the bill alone - and beins removing 10 - 11 million illegals to their country of orign - it will be a HUGE national cost.

    currently - even quite conservative estimates say that there are nearly 11 million undocumented illegals in the U.S. -

    The awarding of credits and partial credits is a way of encouranging participation and cooperation in the process of removing unwanted foreign nationals from American territory without increasing the number of foreigners who are here.
    The partial credits are awarded to each country which helps in the process of removing the worker from U.S. soil

    The whole process is predicated on the idea of introducing a strict discipline into the immigration process and the credits are a part of the discipline.

    I hear many commentators on the topic of illegals in this country often say that they can conceive of no way to remove so large a number of illegals from the US.

    I am trying to start a debate on that issue - since I think it can be done.
    Those who say they can't think of a way - are putting out propaganda - pure propaganda.

    Enforce the work laws - as they should be enforced, cut out the welfare benefits, and most of these people will go home on their own.

    Enforce the traffic laws, the zoning laws, etc.

    The ones left will be -

    *those with anchor babies who feel they have right to stay and are willing to take it to court. Some will go and take their anchor babies. No decent parent would use their children this way or even contemplate leaving them.

    *criminals who have been 'sent' to America from their own country and would probably be welcomed home with something other than the fatted calf - maybe 'open arms'.

    *drug dealers who want to stay here and ply their trade.

    Our government should already be rounding up the criminal element - and that will have to be done regardless of their status or the cost.

    The anchor baby thing will haunt us, I fear -

    Bottom line, most of the deportation would be self-deportation.

    And the number is far more than the 12 million they pretend are here.

    Bottom line, whatever it costs - the price to do nothing is far too great. The price for this country has cost dearly in lives, blood, work for generations. To do nothing, means their sacrifice was meaningless - and that simply cannot happen.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  9. #19
    smde's Avatar
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    In the best of all possible cases- self deprotation would take place - because they simply realized that they are way off base - and felt guilty and were really good people at heart .... .... etc... etc

    Alas - it doesnt seem like this is a common line of thinking , that we can rely on in the groups that are coming here.....

    I would like to see it happen though - till then - I think that turning up the heat - will help
    I am hoping that we can start agreeing - soon - a lot of people are speaking - are we agreeing yet ???????

    The current ALIPAC platform - is good - and I agree with that - but the current immigration system is in need of addtional work and that is the current pretext of the congress/Senate is using in its attempts to slip in more stupidity.

    There has to be a solid front of resistance that has thought through the difficult angles. This is the only thing - that the Dems/Reps/ will respect - since they think that their agreement to disagree with us is currently - a trump ...

    I am quite familiar with the situation - (formerly resident of Brownsville Texas) ... and we must involve the Mexican govenment or else - they are just a conduit or a funnel - for more of the same - only worse ..... in the future...

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by smde
    In the best of all possible cases- self deprotation would take place - because they simply realized that they are way off base - and felt guilty and were really good people at heart .... .... etc... etc

    Alas - it doesnt seem like this is a common line of thinking , that we can rely on in the groups that are coming here.....

    I would like to see it happen though - till then - I think that turning up the heat - will help
    I am hoping that we can start agreeing - soon - a lot of people are speaking - are we agreeing yet ???????

    The current ALIPAC platform - is good - and I agree with that - but the current immigration system is in need of addtional work and that is the current pretext of the congress/Senate is using in its attempts to slip in more stupidity.

    There has to be a solid front of resistance that has thought through the difficult angles. This is the only thing - that the Dems/Reps/ will respect - since they think that their agreement to disagree with us is currently - a trump ...

    I am quite familiar with the situation - (formerly resident of Brownsville Texas) ... and we must involve the Mexican govenment or else - they are just a conduit or a funnel - for more of the same - only worse ..... in the future...
    I don't expect them to feel guilty or return because they are good people or any of those things.

    They came to work and make money. Dry up the jobs and they will go home - cutting off the welfare would be added incentive.

    While some came for nefarious reasons - far too many. Most did come to work for money. They may not adhere to the letter of the law and don't mind taking advantage of our 'touchy feely' attitude and our do nothing government, they won't stay without jobs.

    Those two things could be done easier than anything else - since we already have those laws on the books, they have been used before and evidently have been tested in court.

    As to the Mexican government being involved - of course.

    That will take a President who is not in league with the Mexican government to tell them they need to keep their people home because we are putting up a fence, other technology - and armed guards on the border.

    Tell Mexico to keep their army home and stop helping the drug dealers.

    If they do not stop encouraging - and probably financing - the exodous, there will be no more 'foreign aid' - that's just thank you's to the rich families in Mexico.

    NAFTA will be revisited and we can open up some of our oilfields that are shut off and stop buying their oil.

    As for drug dealers - it's time to quit playing around with them and get as serious as they are.

    Don't know when you lived in Brownsville, by illegals along the border have been a part of life in Texas for all my life. They came, they worked, they went home. Sometimes they brought their families, but they didn't ask for welfare and didn't demand anything.

    It is just when our government put the word out 'Y'all come on in now, Ya hear' - they heeded the call and came in droves, had babies, made demands, and you see the results.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

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