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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Trump gives young feminist the brush-off on equal pay and abortion

    Trump gives young feminist the brush-off on equal pay and abortion: 'You're going to make the same IF you do as good a job – and I happen to be pro-life'

    By David Martosko, Us Political Editor For Dailymail.com

    Published: 12:27 EST, 12 October 2015 | Updated: 15:52 EST, 12 October 2015

    Donald Trump gave a young feminist the back of his hand on Monday, dismissing her demand for absolute pay equity by insisting that women and men should earn the same salary only if their job performances match up.

    'I want to get paid the same as a man, and I thinik you understand that,' the unidentified woman asked him during the Q&A portion of a bipartisan 'No Labels' event in New Hampshire.

    'So if you become president, will a woman make the same as a man? And do I get to choose what I do with my body?'

    Following applause from a crowd comprised largely of political centrists, Trump said: 'You're going to make the same if you do as good a job – and I happen to be pro-life. Okay? I'm pro-life.'

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    Trump took questions following a 30-minute speech at the Manchester, NH event organized by former Utah Republican Gov. Jon Huntsman and former Connecticut Democratic Sen. Joe Lieberman, the No Labels group's co-chairs.

    The feminism questions, asked by a woman who appeared to be a college student, came in two parts.

    'So maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you can prove me wrong,' she said at first. 'But I don't think you're a friend to woman [sic].'

    Trump jumped in, joking with the audience of 2,000 that 'I knew I shouldn't have picked her.'

    He rattled off his gender-equity bona fides, including what he said was a history of putting women at the top of mission-critical business enterprises.

    'I respect women incredibly,' Trump said. 'I have had women working for me in positions that they've never worked in terms of construction, in terms of so many different jobs. I had a woman who was in charge of the building of Trump Tower, many years ago, before anybody would have even thought of it, and did a fantastic job.'

    'I have given women more opportunity than I would say virtually anybody in the construction industry,' he said.

    His young inquisitor, though, demanded a chance to ask a specific question, focusing on pay equity and abortion.

    The New Hampshire audience wasn't a typical Trump-friendly crowd. Its rowdiest moment came earlier in the morning when a spandex-clad mascot, 'Mr. Problem Solver,' led the audience in call-and-response protest chants.

    Organizers put together a day-long summit largely for political centrists with limited partisan appeal.

    They applauded loudly when another questioner, Harvard graduate student Micaela Connery, asked Trump whethher 'divisive language' he deployed on the presidential campaign trail serves to 'undermine' his message.

    Trump was having none of it.

    'I went to Ivy League schools. I know what's divisive. I know what's not divisive, in all fairness,' he said.

    'I don't want to necessarily be politically correct all the way down the line. ... I see politicians, they're afraid to say anything because it's not politically correct. And they know the answers, and they refuse to give 'em because they're afraid it's not going to be politically correct!'

    'And I'm going to have to be who I am,' he said.

    Unlike most of the Q&A participants who asked their questions from the audience, the young feminist made her pitch from right behind The Donald on the stage and declared that 'I don't think you're a friend to woman'

    Trump suggested, however, that as the Republican field continues to thin out he will have fewer campaign wars of words with the survivors.

    'Many are going to be dropping out, I think, very soon, if they're smart,' he said. 'They're going to be dropping out. Many. Too many people! Too many people!'

    'When it becomes a different kind of a situation, you'll see I'm going to be much less divisive.'

    Trump described himself as a 'counter-puncher' who seldom picks fights, a quality that he finds lacking in the White House.

    'I don't think anybody in this room wants to have somebody that's not going to fight back,' he said.

    'The problem we have in this country is we have people now who don't fight back. ... The country is being hurt tremendously by it.'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3oOg1MKnd
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    Last edited by Jean; 10-13-2015 at 02:40 PM.
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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Conservatives want to deny the fact that Mitt Romney lost the election because he lost the women's vote. Republicans need to wake up and understand that we can't win these important elections without the women vote. To win the women vote our candidates have to understand the women's issues and solutions. I think Donald Trump will do much more for women in the areas of job creation and through that wages and other opportunities, which make him the best candidate for President of the United States in that regard.

    But in that regard, he needs to understand and comprehend that discrimination isn't about "if you do as good a job as someone else", that is not the issue of an equal pay for equal work question. When you put a condition of performance on the payscale against women, you are admitting that you do not understand that there is no reason to even presume there would be a difference in performance based on one's gender. The notion that women are entitled to equal pay for equal work assumes the same performance. People regardless of gender to perform better should make more money than those who perform worse, regardless of gender.

    His answer to this question was not a good moment for Trump. He needs to spend some time grasping the issue of equal pay for equal work so he can correctly respond to these questions. Trust me, there will be ads all over the TV that capture his statement at this summit that will hurt him with the women vote.

    Women are not required to meet any different performance standard than men. There are men performing way below the standards that women are performing, yet men make more money, a lot more money, than women doing not only the same work, but a higher quality of work. On this issue, Trump failed.

    The second part of the young woman's question was under your administration will I have the right to control my own body. The answer under the law is yes, of course you do. His job as President of the United States has nothing to do with his personal belief or notion or creed or whatever it is pertaining to "Pro-Life". He will never have to face the decisions a woman has to face with regard to her body, the question wasn't about what his personal view is of his body or someone else's, the question was will a woman have the right to control her own body under his administration and under constitutional law which as President he is obligated to uphold and protect is "yes, absolutely."

    So on this issue as well, Trump failed.

    It's a long way to the nomination and even longer to the general election. Trump will fail to win the General Election if he doesn't grasp these women's issues and address them correctly, according to law and our Constitution. This election is not about taking civil rights away from the American People including women. Women already have the constitutional right to demand equal pay for equal work. Women already have the constitutional right to control their own body and terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Until he clears his head of the twisted garbage the religionists have implanted during the primary, then he will lose the General Election, for the same reason Mitt Romney lost the General Election, because he will lose the women vote, for the same reasons Mitt Romney lost it, for the same reasons all Republican candidates will lose the General Election.

    It's the Great Tragedy that has beset my beloved Republican Party, a viral infection of religionist based "freedom for me, but not for thee", and "equal rights only if you prove you're equal".

    It's sad, because those views are so contrary to the real principles of the Republican Party upon which it was founded and have given so much to our country and citizens.

    There are few fans more devoted to this candidacy than I am. I truly believe that he will Make America Great Again. But even I have a problem casting a vote for a candidate who can't address these two very simple issues correctly. Even I have a huge problem with a candidate for President who doesn't understand his job as President includes a sworn oath to uphold the US Constitution with regards to all matters, but especially with regards to women who are the majority of our population.

    A little more time spent getting up to speed on women's issues and a little less time Tweeting should be the Trump Order of the Day.

    And it's not all Trump's fault. He's for equal pay for equal work, so why didn't he say so? Because there are conservatives who oppose the equal pay for equal work bill. He's Pro-Choice, and believes in a woman's right to control her own body. You think for a minute that if one of his daughters had an unwanted pregnancy she wouldn't have been swooped off to the most private and best facility in the world to terminate that pregnancy? Oh puleeze! There wouldn't have even been a discussion about it. So why does he not answer this young woman's question correctly and instead disses her with "I'm Pro-Life, okay?" Because our twisted and sick Republican Party won't support the equal pay for equal work bill or a Pro-Choice candidate who upholds the rule of law and the US Constitution.

    So when it all comes tumbling down, Republicans need to realize that they created the political dilemma for our candidates that is so bad that it makes someone as competent and good as Donald Trump look like a fool.
    Last edited by Judy; 10-12-2015 at 07:57 PM.
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    "When you put a condition of performance on the payscale against women, you are admitting that you do not understand that there is no reason to even presume there would be a difference in performance based on one's gender."

    Again, theory vs. reality. I worked in a craft union, that with other crafts goes after women members as Women in Trades project. http://www.aflcio.org/Issues/Civil-a.../Working-Women

    It sounds nice---why shouldn't lady plumber get what a man plumber gets? Well, when do you see women plumbers threading 3 inch pipe, Passing up 100 lbs of old sewer pipe out of a ditch 15 feet down, crawling way back in some filthy, rat-s--t laden hole and dragging a forty pound tool with them that they then have to use above their head? In the carpenter trade women never have to: wrangle 60 lb sheets of plywood up some narrow stairway to upper floors, swing a 12 pound sledge to drive splintering 2x4 stakes into hard clay soil, carry 100 lb. beams around.....No, basically they are eye candy for some jackass, someone's girlfriend who is broke because of their mutual drug habit, some bimbo that has gotten knocked up twice and is always running out of money. Then they have to be given the easy jobs, so that the company doesn't get sued for their lack of production.

    We had a smart alecky female apprentice who just journeyed out and was given the easiest job on the team of providing hand signals to a crane operator. Unfortunately this was in a nuclear power plant. She gave the wrong signal, the crane hit a guard rail, and Bingo! the power company was awarded a $200,000 fine by the US nuclear regulatory commission. Too bad she didn't crap her designer jeans.

    And for that matter, the jobs where they do excel at are usually just helping some snoot nosed corporation to fleece the US consumers. Carly Fiorina as a good example.
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    MW
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    Judy wrote:

    Conservatives want to deny the fact that Mitt Romney lost the election because he lost the women's vote. Republicans need to wake up and understand that we can't win these important elections without the women vote. To win the women vote our candidates have to understand the women's issues and solutions.
    Actually Romney won the higher percentage of the white woman vote. Yes, he did lose by a large percentage to black and Hispanic women, but an argument could be made that it had little to do with women issues. I say that because we know Obama took most of the black votes, male and female, simply because he was black. As for Hispanic women, I think immigration was the issue that guided them to vote Obama.

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    That young lady standing there with her hands on her hips and a bossy look.... she looks just ridiculous.

    W
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    This post is a reply to the following quotation from Judy’s post:

    “Women are not required to meet any different performance standard than men. There are men performing way below the standards that women are performing, yet men make more money, a lot more money, than women doing not only the same work, but a higher quality of work. On this issue, Trump failed.”

    I try to avoid the so called “woman’s issues” because I want to stay focused on my single priority issue: ending the illegal alien invasion. But this statement is too much for me to ignore. Your assertion about the faux disparity in compensation between men and women in the work force is so totally contrary to my experiences in a life time of working many different jobs with many different employers. Never ever has any employer offered me more money because I was a man. This is the job, this is what it pays. That was always the way it was. No man verses woman pay stuff. I worked as a medical lab tech and OR Room surgical nurse. Those jobs are overwhelmingly done by females. Never was I offered a penny more for doing that work. It never entered my head nor any of my employer’s heads to give me more money then a women.

    My only experiences with pay disparity was when I worked production line in a factory. They worked me like a mule all day long lifting heavy pans of small parts to supply women working on the line who sat on their fat behinds. In the summer heat they had big fans blowing on them-- I had none. I had to lift 70 pounds they lifted little rings a few ounces each. I probably worked 3 times harder for a whopping 5% increase in pay.

    One of the women on the line decided she wanted to do a “man’s job” because it paid better. She got the easiest job for a man, driving a fork lift. Two weeks later she was back on the production line lifting little metal rings. When I asked her why she came back to the old job she told me that the small increase in pay was not worth all of the extra hard labor she had to do--gee you think! Yes sir we males all conspiring together get all of the big bucks while secretly scheming to keep women poor, barefoot and pregnant.

    Later in life when I was still working my ass off in low wages jobs, I dated women who were secretaries or middle management office workers who earned far bigger salaries than mine, two times or more doing jobs a lot easier. Yet I drove them all around in my car and paid for everything on a date. Of course these things did not last long because I could not afford to keep buying dinners at nice restaurants that they took for granted. Of course not all women are like that but it goes to the disparity in pay stuff.

    Later in life I worked office jobs and almost all of my bosses were women making a lot more money. And I know for afact their salaries were the same as the few men at the same level of management.

    I personally know of police departments and fire departments that had two different physical standards to qualify for those jobs, always the woman’s standards were far easier than those for men. I hope nobody tries to deny this because I know this for a fact from the poor guys who tried to get hired. This was done to keep the federal government off of their back for not having enough women or minorities.

    And while I am on the subject, White males are the only group there can be too many of when it comes to hiring employees in private companies or government jobs or college admissions.

    I know that some of my examples are not about the exact same type of work but most are, and the other information ties into the bigger picture of assumed disadvantages in lifetime earnings and standards of living.

    I am really tired of hearing how easy men have it, of how stupid and incompetent we are, of how we are responsible for everything that is wrong in the world as compared to the wonders of female competence and brilliance. It gets to be tedious and insulting.

    I have more but I will stop here because this could fill an entire book.

    P.S. Judy you are a good person but…
    Last edited by csarbww; 10-13-2015 at 01:06 AM.

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    Captainron:

    It seems you are familiar with hard labor as am I. Have you noticed how when you see a crew working on road repairs you never see a woman swinging a sledge hammer or shoveling hot asphalt? You can always tell the females under the safety helmets and jackets, they are the ones on the end holding a stop sign. Yet you want to bet that if they do get a lower wage (which I am not sure is true) it will be described as "a woman working on a road crew gets less money then the men." This is one way they cook the books to claim women are being screwed on wages.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captainron View Post
    "When you put a condition of performance on the payscale against women, you are admitting that you do not understand that there is no reason to even presume there would be a difference in performance based on one's gender."

    Again, theory vs. reality. I worked in a craft union, that with other crafts goes after women members as Women in Trades project. http://www.aflcio.org/Issues/Civil-a.../Working-Women

    It sounds nice---why shouldn't lady plumber get what a man plumber gets? Well, when do you see women plumbers threading 3 inch pipe, Passing up 100 lbs of old sewer pipe out of a ditch 15 feet down, crawling way back in some filthy, rat-s--t laden hole and dragging a forty pound tool with them that they then have to use above their head? In the carpenter trade women never have to: wrangle 60 lb sheets of plywood up some narrow stairway to upper floors, swing a 12 pound sledge to drive splintering 2x4 stakes into hard clay soil, carry 100 lb. beams around.....No, basically they are eye candy for some jackass, someone's girlfriend who is broke because of their mutual drug habit, some bimbo that has gotten knocked up twice and is always running out of money. Then they have to be given the easy jobs, so that the company doesn't get sued for their lack of production.

    We had a smart alecky female apprentice who just journeyed out and was given the easiest job on the team of providing hand signals to a crane operator. Unfortunately this was in a nuclear power plant. She gave the wrong signal, the crane hit a guard rail, and Bingo! the power company was awarded a $200,000 fine by the US nuclear regulatory commission. Too bad she didn't crap her designer jeans.

    And for that matter, the jobs where they do excel at are usually just helping some snoot nosed corporation to fleece the US consumers. Carly Fiorina as a good example.
    Well, Captainron, I've been around a lot of construction sites that involve carpentry and plumbing, and welding and cranes, and really pretty much everything in that industry from A to Z. You mention the female apprentice with obviously inadequate training given the easy job of providing hand signals to a crane operator. She makes a mistake obviously due to inadequate training, not her gender, because in your own words, this was the "easy" job right? A guard rail was hit by the crane operator, and a fine was imposed.

    My Dad was a boilermaker. He worked on utility boilers, sometimes 100 feet in the air, on scaffolding. They worked in teams. A boilermaker and a welder. The welder, a man, tested the scaffolding that was assembled, before they stepped onto it from another one, and said it was okay. Dad didn't think it was and told him it needed to be tightened up. But the welder resisted and said no it was ready. They step onto it, and the scaffolding gave way, Dad had stepped first so he was too far over to be grabbed by the guys on the neighboring scaffolding so he went down with the scaffolding whereas the welder was grabbed by the other guys. They only caught the welder by his arm and dislocated his shoulder, but he didn't fall.

    Dad fell with the scaffolding, but by some miracle, Dad was able to catch the scaffolding railing of the row below them, he said all he could think about was landing on that rail, and he did. It broke his collar bone, broke 8 ribs, punctured his lung, and he nearly died. He made it even though they had to reflate his lung in the elevator of the hospital with a pen or he would have died there, but they did, and he made it.

    They were 75 feet up. Dad fell about 25 feet, the rows were about 25 feet apart. If he'd miss that rail, my Dad would have fallen all the way and died that day from a mistake by a male welder assembling the scaffolding.

    Whose gender would you like to blame that accident on?

    My Dad blamed it on the fact that the welder was a snot-nosed red-neck from Arkansas that shouldn't have been on the job to begin with because they don't have the right attitude or skill-set. Apparently the union training standards in Arkansas were very deficient compared to the other 8 states in Dad's work area.

    The issue of equal pay for equal work has nothing to do with capability or performance. If you aren't capable, regardless of your gender, then you don't get the job. If you perform as well as someone else, then you deserve the same money. If you perform better than someone else, then either you deserve more money or they deserve less, regardless of gender.

    I totally understand the gender-bias and preferences in work places by co-workers. But these are attitude problems, not real problems, and have nothing to do with the issue of equal pay for equal work, because that issue assumes that same work as some call it or equal work means same or equal training, same or equal capability, same or equal skill-set.

    Thinking about the plumbers, we had a call for a plumber to snake a drain at a rental property. They come as a team, one in a vehicle with the snake, the other one in a different plumbing truck with parts and stuff. They fix the problem in the bath-tub and then snake the line. It's running clear but they think the clean out needs to be re-configured, the curve in the pipe is too sharp they said. Oh, okay, well, they couldn't take care of it that day so we put that on a list of "to do" at some point and the guy with the snake left. We wanted to run the hose down the clean-out to make sure it was all clear and the other plumber was leaning over the clean out pipe messing with the hose and I'm standing there looking at his pocket which has this Mounds candy bar in it, thinking that's going to fall out and go into the pipe and just as I was saying "hey I think ....." BINGO, the candy bar fell out of his pocket and fell into the sewer line.

    We just stood there and looked at him. He tried to get his hand down there to retrieve it, he couldn't. He went to his vehicle to try to find something to pull it out with, he couldn't find anything that worked. So the Mounds bar stayed in the pipe. Obviously in a few months it clogged up again and had to be snaked again.

    Whose gender do we blame that stupidity on? And he wasn't even wearing designer jeans!!

    Oh sure, they wanted their bill paid in full for both service calls.

    So now, we just rent a snake and do our own.

    Competency isn't gender-related. Neither is capability nor performance. There are plenty of men who are smaller, weaker and less physically capable than a lot of women. Just as there are a lot of women who are fully capable physically, mentally and emotionally to do many jobs that they've been excluded from. When they are hired for these jobs, they should be paid the same as men for the same work, and they shouldn't have to work in an environment where the attitude of their male co-workers is prejudiced against them.

    It's something everyone who holds these biased views needs to do some real soul-searching about, because these views hold back our progress, they deter our goal of a self-sustaining work force and they not only cheat individuals out of better lives they're entitled to, they burden our society with the negative consequences.

    Cary Fiorina isn't a good example of successful women. She's an example of a woman who I imagine lied her way to the top and once there, the discovery of who she really was came too late to save the companies and lives she harmed by it. When someone lies about their life, their career, their family, death and Iran sanctions to advance themselves, they'll not only lie about anything, they'll lie about everything. Carly Fiorina didn't fail because of her gender, she failed because of her lack of character.

    Lack of character is not a gender-based trait. I give you General Motors who concealed the switch from hell that's going to cost GM shareholders billions and has already killed over 100 people that we know about. The majority of the engineers and managers involved in that were males. I give you Volkswagen who deliberately devised a fraudulent emissions control system to would fool emissions inspections. That President is a man. I give you the BP Oil Spill and the Exxon Valdez disasters, all men.

    These issues of success and failure, honesty and dishonesty, competence and incompetence are not gender-based matters, they're something else altogether and unrelated to the simple issue of equal pay for equal work.
    Last edited by Judy; 10-13-2015 at 03:45 AM.
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    Yes, I was a good student but had to buy a home at an early age. So then I combined my woodworking interest with home upgrading and got into carpentry. I got into the union, but just as the Carter recession was pushing our state way over the cliff. So it was really a struggle and I went through several years mostly unemployed, barely able to make the bills. Then...I started saving really fast. Just enough to get scammed by a mortgage broker in the early 90's. So basically a total of 20 years went to waste. And the work was always fraught with all sorts of frustrations.

    Yes, women would get those easy jobs. In this case they would have them hold a marker as a guy sighted lines for building layout. Then for example to get women to go in via Women in Trades they take them to a power mitre saw and say "Yes you can do finish carpentry!" But women don't even try to hang 80lb office doors , like I do by myself. Then to put the hardware on, you have to drill through metal over your head with a lot of strength. And you have to get everything accurate or it will come loose or not work right. Or you may have a very expensive section of a store fixture that was custom made clear across the country, and one miscalculation or slip up and you've wasted a thousand dollar item and set that part of the job back while they get a replacement fabricated. Women are afraid to tackle those kinds of things----unless they have very close supervision. So they really are just permanent apprentices.

    This is all just a politically correct farce, and done to appease the "minority social justice" police. We also had blacks, and usually they had to be given the more basic jobs that they could figure out. In Seattle they would often give them weatherproofing jobs, instead of the actual construction work. They would get that wrong, too. It's all just a big farce and the Carpenters union boss was known as a dirtbag tax evader and organizer of illegal aliens. A worse deal than the Teamsters in the 1960's.
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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csarbww View Post
    Captainron:

    It seems you are familiar with hard labor as am I. Have you noticed how when you see a crew working on road repairs you never see a woman swinging a sledge hammer or shoveling hot asphalt? You can always tell the females under the safety helmets and jackets, they are the ones on the end holding a stop sign. Yet you want to bet that if they do get a lower wage (which I am not sure is true) it will be described as "a woman working on a road crew gets less money then the men." This is one way they cook the books to claim women are being screwed on wages.
    Oh my goodness. Who did those jobs before women were allowed to do them? Some pansy ass man? Did you claim they were cooking the the books when males were the only ones doing those jobs? Was it considered "women's work" when men did it? Did you wonder if they made a lower wage holding the signs when men were holding the signs?

    How about you try standing out there for 8 hours on the hot pavement holding the hand signs wondering when some fool is going to run you over? The best job on a highway crew is the one driving the equipment, not standing all day in the sun holding a hand sign. But yes, st least on state highway crews, the people holding the hand signs earn less. It's an actual pay-grade for the type of work, not due to it being any easier, but because it requires less skill and they can hire seasonal workers during the summer months to hold the signs. There are a number of seasonal jobs in the road construction industry for obvious reasons.
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