Thread: U.S. Supreme Court declines to hear Ted Cruz's 'birther' case

Originally Posted by Judy

Naturalization law is ... law ... not nature. If you are "considered" a "natural born citizen" by naturalization law, that means you weren't one before the law. The 1790 Naturalization Act was repealed and replaced with the Naturalization Act of 1795 which correctly no longer "considered" citizens born overseas to be natural born citizens. So, in constitutional law, the 1790 Naturalization Act proves my case. When you become a citizen as a result of naturalization law, you are not a natural born citizen under Article II of the US Constitution, you are citizen by law.

A natural born citizen is a US citizen born by blood and soil. Hence, 2 US citizen parents at the time of birth and born on US soil. It's very simple, nothing complicated about it.

Not true. Nothing in the Naturalization Act of 1795 actually mentions natural born citizen, which means, according to most legal scholars, the actual definition of "natural born citizen" did not change from the original Naturalization Act of 1790. This is a simple fact of law that is not difficult to comprehend for anyone that wants to do the actual research. Unless the U.S. Supreme Court decides to interpret and rule otherwise, the Naturalization Act of 1790 defines a the term "natural born citizen." Of course you know all of this because we have had this discussion ad nauseam.

Time to move on and discuss issues relevant to the the issue at hand. Cruz is obviously out and Trump is in.

Originally Posted by MW

Not true. Nothing in the Naturalization Act of 1795 actually mentions natural born citizen, which means, according to most legal scholars, the actual definition of "natural born citizen" did not change from the original Naturalization Act of 1790. This is a simple fact of law that is not difficult to comprehend for anyone that wants to do the actual research. Unless the U.S. Supreme Court decides to interpret and rule otherwise, the Naturalization Act of 1790 defines a the term "natural born citizen." Of course you know all of this because we have had this discussion ad nauseam.

Time to move on and discuss issues relevant to the the issue at hand. Cruz is obviously out and Trump is in.

The 1790 Act was repealed which stated that children born overseas to citizens (plural) shall be "considered natural born citizens", the 1795 Naturalization Act repealed that and replaced it with the statement that children born overseas to citizens shall be US citizens which they have been ever since. US citizen is not a natural born citizen under Article II of the US Constitution. A natural born citizen under Article II of the US Constitution has only 1 meaning, which is born to 2 US citizens on US soil.

It's time for you and some others to start using your own heads to figure things out instead of relying on "legal scholars". After all, it was "legal scholars" who perpetuated slavery when they should have ended it. It was "legal scholars" who denied women the right to vote and other equal rights requiring an Amendment to the US Constitution to correct the wrong. It is today's "legal scholars" who perpetuate illegal immigration, abuse the 14th Amendment to grant citizenship to anchor babies, require US taxpayers to fund public educations and emergency health care for illegal aliens, who protect immigrants rights to jobs and educations above the rights of citizens, and on and on and on.

So please don't try to impress me with what "legal scholars" do. Most of the past and present day issues in our country are the direct result of dishonest "legal scholars" with agendas. When the American People have known what a natural born citizen is since the beginning of our nation, we do not need johnny come lately "legal scholars" with vested interests in a different opinion to tell US falsehoods about our Constitution and who is and is not eligible to hold the office of President and Vice President of the United States.

In 2008, Americans made exceptions for Obama and McCain, neither one of whom were natural born citizens under Article II of the US Constitution. Congress weighed in, led by Democrats to "resolve" that McCain should be considered a natural born citizen, even though he isn't one, he was born in Panama, and the Birther Movement began to challenge Obama, because Obama may not have been born in Hawaii, which was part of his issue, the other part being his father wasn't a US citizen and thus for that reason alone even if he was born in Hawaii meant Obama is not a natural born citizen.

A natural born citizen under Article II of the US Constitution is very simple:

1. born in the USA
2. to 2 US citizen parents

The whole purpose of the natural born citizen clause is to eliminate dual citizenship and loyalty to other countries due to heritage, birth place and parentage from the Presidency of the United States.

Finally, a law that added children born overseas to be natural born citizens proves they were not natural born citizens under Article II, and fortunately that law was repealed in 1795 and the matter corrected making them just US citizens, not natural born citizens.

Furthermore, a law such as the 1790 Naturalization Law or a Resolution passed by Congress in 2008 does not amend the US Constitution. To amend Article II of the US Constitution to allow people who are not natural born citizens to hold the office of President and Vice President of the United States, we would need to pass an Amendment to the US Constitution.

So until that occurs, any candidate for President or Vice President of the United States whose parents were not US citizens, natural born or naturalized, at the time of their birth and who was not born in the USA is not eligible to hold the office of President or Vice President.

I believe the issue will arise again if Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic nomination because something he said awhile ago indicated one of his parents wasn't a citizen when he was born.

Americans need to stand back and ask themselves, what is going on? Have we so lost control of our government that numerous candidates running for the highest office in our country aren't even eligible to hold the office under the US Constitution? Look at how many of the Republican candidates weren't eligible? Cruz, Rubio, Jindal to name 3, 2 of them running neck and neck against Trump.

This simple little phrase in Article II is the single best protection for our country against the very foreign influence that we watch destroy it through the Congress, Governors, Mayors and members of state legislatures.

No other offices beyond President and Vice President of the US are restricted to natural born citizens. It doesn't apply to Senators, Representatives, Judges, Governors, State Legislatures. It only applies to the two highest offices in our country. Look at what has happened to our country because of this other foreign influence, judges who openly brag "what it comes does to is, this is about the country of our parents" -- Gonzalo P Curiel. Senators who haven't met an illegal alien they didn't want to enrich at the expense of an American Worker. Representatives who run on illegal alien advocacy platforms. Obama, an ineligible President, who has defied our people by handing out permits to millions and millions of illegal aliens laughing all the way to the court house. McCain and Rubio and their Gang of 8 amnesty bill.

The purpose of this requirement has probably never been more apparent than it is today.

Excellent post Judy.

I might add that one of the revolutionary concepts on which the American Revolution was based was citizenship itself. In those days the use of the word "citizen" was a part of a new language. People who wished to display solidarity with the cause of those revolutionaries addressed each other as "citizen".

Birthright citizenship for offspring of citizens meant that citizenship itself was never something requiring initiation or indoctrination. All that was necessary was that a child be the offspring of two citizens.

When I was a boy, in the elementary school where I grew up, you could be graded on citizenship. This was back in the sixties and was a fairly sound concept. Understanding citizenship was considered a necessary component of a good education. Poor citizenship didn't do anything to undermine your legal citizenship, but it certainly put it in perspective.

Thank you, pkskyali. Yes, citizenship was taught in our schools too. Also at home. Everyone knew the difference between a natural born citizen and a US citizen. Everyone knew to be a natural born citizen meant by blood and soil, 2 US citizen parents (blood) and born in the USA (soil).

Originally Posted by Judy

The 1790 Act was repealed which stated that children born overseas to citizens (plural) shall be "considered natural born citizens", the 1795 Naturalization Act repealed that and replaced it with the statement that children born overseas to citizens shall be US citizens which they have been ever since. US citizen is not a natural born citizen under Article II of the US Constitution. A natural born citizen under Article II of the US Constitution has only 1 meaning, which is born to 2 US citizens on US soil.

It's time for you and some others to start using your own heads to figure things out instead of relying on "legal scholars". After all, it was "legal scholars" who perpetuated slavery when they should have ended it. It was "legal scholars" who denied women the right to vote and other equal rights requiring an Amendment to the US Constitution to correct the wrong. It is today's "legal scholars" who perpetuate illegal immigration, abuse the 14th Amendment to grant citizenship to anchor babies, require US taxpayers to fund public educations and emergency health care for illegal aliens, who protect immigrants rights to jobs and educations above the rights of citizens, and on and on and on.

So please don't try to impress me with what "legal scholars" do. Most of the past and present day issues in our country are the direct result of dishonest "legal scholars" with agendas. When the American People have known what a natural born citizen is since the beginning of our nation, we do not need johnny come lately "legal scholars" with vested interests in a different opinion to tell US falsehoods about our Constitution and who is and is not eligible to hold the office of President and Vice President of the United States.

In 2008, Americans made exceptions for Obama and McCain, neither one of whom were natural born citizens under Article II of the US Constitution. Congress weighed in, led by Democrats to "resolve" that McCain should be considered a natural born citizen, even though he isn't one, he was born in Panama, and the Birther Movement began to challenge Obama, because Obama may not have been born in Hawaii, which was part of his issue, the other part being his father wasn't a US citizen and thus for that reason alone even if he was born in Hawaii meant Obama is not a natural born citizen.

A natural born citizen under Article II of the US Constitution is very simple:

1. born in the USA
2. to 2 US citizen parents

The whole purpose of the natural born citizen clause is to eliminate dual citizenship and loyalty to other countries due to heritage, birth place and parentage from the Presidency of the United States.

Finally, a law that added children born overseas to be natural born citizens proves they were not natural born citizens under Article II, and fortunately that law was repealed in 1795 and the matter corrected making them just US citizens, not natural born citizens.

Furthermore, a law such as the 1790 Naturalization Law or a Resolution passed by Congress in 2008 does not amend the US Constitution. To amend Article II of the US Constitution to allow people who are not natural born citizens to hold the office of President and Vice President of the United States, we would need to pass an Amendment to the US Constitution.

So until that occurs, any candidate for President or Vice President of the United States whose parents were not US citizens, natural born or naturalized, at the time of their birth and who was not born in the USA is not eligible to hold the office of President or Vice President.

I believe the issue will arise again if Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic nomination because something he said awhile ago indicated one of his parents wasn't a citizen when he was born.

Americans need to stand back and ask themselves, what is going on? Have we so lost control of our government that numerous candidates running for the highest office in our country aren't even eligible to hold the office under the US Constitution? Look at how many of the Republican candidates weren't eligible? Cruz, Rubio, Jindal to name 3, 2 of them running neck and neck against Trump.

This simple little phrase in Article II is the single best protection for our country against the very foreign influence that we watch destroy it through the Congress, Governors, Mayors and members of state legislatures.

No other offices beyond President and Vice President of the US are restricted to natural born citizens. It doesn't apply to Senators, Representatives, Judges, Governors, State Legislatures. It only applies to the two highest offices in our country. Look at what has happened to our country because of this other foreign influence, judges who openly brag "what it comes does to is, this is about the country of our parents" -- Gonzalo P Curiel. Senators who haven't met an illegal alien they didn't want to enrich at the expense of an American Worker. Representatives who run on illegal alien advocacy platforms. Obama, an ineligible President, who has defied our people by handing out permits to millions and millions of illegal aliens laughing all the way to the court house. McCain and Rubio and their Gang of 8 amnesty bill.

The purpose of this requirement has probably never been more apparent than it is today.

So are you actually suggesting everyone that doesn't share your view is incapable of analytical thought? You know very little about me, Judy, and I resent your rude implication that I'm not capable of forming my own thoughts through in-depth research. The majority of us aren't born knowing everything and rely on the research of experts to arrive at a conclusion that would be considered reasonable and logical. You can continue to defend your position with your own opinions and interpretations until your fingers turn raw but that still won't change one very finite fact. That fact is, unless the U.S. Supreme Court rules otherwise, Cruz is a natural born citizen. Furthermore, on the issue you raised concerning the differences in the Naturalization Act of 1790 and 1795. The State Department clarifies the issue in regards to the natural born citizen issue, saying that the 1790 language is honored under under section 301(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act.

As for John McCain, even though I despise the man, I find it unfathomable that you would not recognize McCain as a natural born citizen. I can understand the concerns some may have on Cruz, but for goodness sake, John McCain's father was stationed overseas serving in a military capacity for his country. He was forced to serve in Panama by our federal government. John McCain does meet the requirements of a natural born citizen. Actually both his parents were citizens of the United States. Whereas Ted Cruz's father was a legal resident of the United States and his mother a U.S. citizen at his birth. Both situations meet the criteria of natural born citizen.

Now I'll ask, once again, can we move on to topics more relevant to getting Trump elected and stop beating this poor dead horse? Is there really anything else that you or I haven't said repeatedly on the topic over the last couple months? Geez, there is nothing new to add .... let's move on.

Oh brother.