Thread: Use of the word "Traitor"

Originally Posted by 50sKid

Well, two possibilities.
One, this is a sincere individual, who, like nearly all liberals, is very confused and very illogical in their thought processes. In that case, perhaps our responses have served to educate him, by breaking through the one-world propaganda fog that has enveloped his mind, perhaps over a period of many years.

Here is a good education for our progressive liberal troll:


In July, Arizona will begin enforcing a new law that requires law enforcement officers to check someone’s immigration status if they have reason to suspect that he or she is in the country illegally. Do you think this is a good idea?

YES
NO

Results
Total of 2,060,835 votes

95.7%
Yes
1,972,793 votes

4.3%
No
88,042 votes


Vote here:
http://world-news.newsvine.com/_questio ... mmigration


ENOUGH SAID. YOU LIBERAL PROGRESSIVE, YOUR NUMBERS ARE FEW.

Thank you for educating the person that made this post ALIPACers.

It is my great honor and pleasure to represent you to the best of my abilities.

William Gheen

Originally Posted by NoBueno

pourpaix wrote:

So what is the problem of those who oppose SB 1070? I think they object to what the law might become by those who apply it overzealously. That authorities approach it with German Nazi mentality, with malignent intent for search and seizure of minorities. I can entirely symphathize with a Hispanic legal resident who fears beatings, mass roundups, and maniacal application of the letter of the law for something as trivial as a forgotten green card. Moreover, I would be very surprised if many of you really advocate a German Nazi approach to solving the problem.

A position peppered with more Nazi analogies, hyperbole, and flat out lies! They object to the law because it's going to identify illegal invaders and likely lead to their deportation. That's why they oppose it.

I don't need to listen to anyone who compares 1070 to a homicidal regime, responsible for the torture and slaughter of over 6 million innocent Jews!

Please rethink your position and study the facts otherwise I fear you will not see the whole picture. While I am fully in support of AZ standing up for its rights as a sovereign state, I believe they could have gone much further which would avoid any future possibility of abuses by law enforcement in enforcing this law. I feel AZ should have voted to take away all the social benefits that are going to illegals. Maybe other states would have followed as well. This is the magnet that is drawing millions of illegals over the borders and costing tax payers millions of dollars. Take away the magnet and they would self deport.


Now as far as comparing the AZ bill to Nazi Germany,I feel many people use this as just one examples in a list of many, to illustrate the erosion of our constitutional liberties over the past few years. It's not meant to minimize the murder of 6 million Jews.

We tread a very slippery slope when we allow the government too much power, which has been happening over recent years. Much of it we allow because we have been so traumatized over 9-11. The government plays on these fears, knowing we will capitulate in order for them to implement total control over our freedoms.

It started with the Patriot Act, the militarization of our police force, and now they want to have unmanned drones flying over our cities to monitor us to go along with thousands of security cameras all over U.S. cities. Then you have the federal government taking over healthcare, the auto industry, etc., etc. And now, the TSA is looking to block all websites that contain "controversial opinion." http://www.infowars.com/tsa-to-block-we ... -opinions/

Research past history. Hitler did the same thing to his own country. They are steadily building a control grid over our lives and in a lot of these instances, we accept these policies because we think it will be to our benefit.

Initially, I was for the AZ bill however, I see where this could lead to abuses against American citizens! These people in power are very shrewd and I've begun to see things differently. Anytime a bill or policy sounds beneficial to us my first question now is - Is it constitutional? Yes I am beyond angry about illegal immigration but I cannot allow my emotions to blind me to the possibility of future abuses against US! American citizens! The founders knew more about tyranny than we ever have (yet), and that's why the constitution and our system is so brilliant. That is why in order to protect OUR liberties we must trust in the constitution even when we think it's not afforded to other people because in the end, we will be protecting our own freedoms and way of life.

Please don't be offended if people begin equating Hitler's tactics and regime to some of the policies that are taking place today. I highly recommend a book by a woman who happens to be Jewish and points out the similarities in US government policies/tactics today, that also took place in Germany before the Holocaust. We're talking about Fascism but the author Naomi Wolf believes we are presently experiencing a "soft fascism" in our country today:


The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot by:
Naomi Wolf



In this timely call to arms, Naomi Wolf compels us to face the way our free America is under assault. She warns us‚–with the straight-to-fellow-citizens urgency of one of Thomas Paine‚’s revolutionary pamphlets‚–that we have little time to lose if our children are to live in real freedom.

“Recent history has profound lessons for us in the U.S. today about how fascist, totalitarian, and other repressive leaders seize and maintain power, especially in what were once democracies. The secret is that these leaders all tend to take very similar, parallel steps. The Founders of this nation were so deeply familiar with tyranny and the habits and practices of tyrants that they set up our checks and balances precisely out of fear of what is unfolding today. We are seeing these same kinds of tactics now closing down freedoms in America, turning our nation into something that in the near future could be quite other than the open society in which we grew up and learned to love liberty,‚â€

Originally Posted by chloe24

Originally Posted by NoBueno

pourpaix wrote:

So what is the problem of those who oppose SB 1070? I think they object to what the law might become by those who apply it overzealously. That authorities approach it with German Nazi mentality, with malignent intent for search and seizure of minorities. I can entirely symphathize with a Hispanic legal resident who fears beatings, mass roundups, and maniacal application of the letter of the law for something as trivial as a forgotten green card. Moreover, I would be very surprised if many of you really advocate a German Nazi approach to solving the problem.

A position peppered with more Nazi analogies, hyperbole, and flat out lies! They object to the law because it's going to identify illegal invaders and likely lead to their deportation. That's why they oppose it.

I don't need to listen to anyone who compares 1070 to a homicidal regime, responsible for the torture and slaughter of over 6 million innocent Jews!

Please rethink your position and study the facts otherwise I fear you will not see the whole picture. While I am fully in support of AZ standing up for its rights as a sovereign state, I believe they could have gone much further which would avoid any future possibility of abuses by law enforcement in enforcing this law. I feel AZ should have voted to take away all the social benefits that are going to illegals. Maybe other states would have followed as well. This is the magnet that is drawing millions of illegals over the borders and costing tax payers millions of dollars. Take away the magnet and they would self deport.


Now as far as comparing the AZ bill to Nazi Germany,I feel many people use this as just one examples in a list of many, to illustrate the erosion of our constitutional liberties over the past few years. It's not meant to minimize the murder of 6 million Jews.

We tread a very slippery slope when we allow the government too much power, which has been happening over recent years. Much of it we allow because we have been so traumatized over 9-11. The government plays on these fears, knowing we will capitulate in order for them to implement total control over our freedoms.

It started with the Patriot Act, the militarization of our police force, and now they want to have unmanned drones flying over our cities to monitor us to go along with thousands of security cameras all over U.S. cities. Then you have the federal government taking over healthcare, the auto industry, etc., etc. And now, the TSA is looking to block all websites that contain "controversial opinion." http://www.infowars.com/tsa-to-block-we ... -opinions/

Research past history. Hitler did the same thing to his own country. They are steadily building a control grid over our lives and in a lot of these instances, we accept these policies because we think it will be to our benefit.

Initially, I was for the AZ bill however, I see where this could lead to abuses against American citizens! These people in power are very shrewd and I've begun to see things differently. Anytime a bill or policy sounds beneficial to us my first question now is - Is it constitutional? Yes I am beyond angry about illegal immigration but I cannot allow my emotions to blind me to the possibility of future abuses against US! American citizens! The founders knew more about tyranny than we ever have (yet), and that's why the constitution and our system is so brilliant. That is why in order to protect OUR liberties we must trust in the constitution even when we think it's not afforded to other people because in the end, we will be protecting our own freedoms and way of life.

Please don't be offended if people begin equating Hitler's tactics and regime to some of the policies that are taking place today. I highly recommend a book by a woman who happens to be Jewish and points out the similarities in US government policies/tactics today, that also took place in Germany before the Holocaust. We're talking about Fascism but the author Naomi Wolf believes we are presently experiencing a "soft fascism" in our country today:


The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot by:
Naomi Wolf



In this timely call to arms, Naomi Wolf compels us to face the way our free America is under assault. She warns us‚–with the straight-to-fellow-citizens urgency of one of Thomas Paine‚’s revolutionary pamphlets‚–that we have little time to lose if our children are to live in real freedom.

“Recent history has profound lessons for us in the U.S. today about how fascist, totalitarian, and other repressive leaders seize and maintain power, especially in what were once democracies. The secret is that these leaders all tend to take very similar, parallel steps. The Founders of this nation were so deeply familiar with tyranny and the habits and practices of tyrants that they set up our checks and balances precisely out of fear of what is unfolding today. We are seeing these same kinds of tactics now closing down freedoms in America, turning our nation into something that in the near future could be quite other than the open society in which we grew up and learned to love liberty,‚â€

Originally Posted by MontereySherry

I must take issue with the leader of this organization calling those who oppose Arizona SB 1070 as traitors.

I must take issue with this post from this new recruit. We have had these tactics used over and over on us.

I have been following this forum for 4 years and am often surprised at the restraint shown here.

pourpaix I grew up in California in a very diverse community next to a military post. I had friends whose mothers were military wives (legal residents) from every country imaginable. I was a military wife in foreign countries. I worked in Silicon Valley alongside legal immigrants from all over the world.

I have taken all the courses both in the Military and at Intel on how to respect different cultures and how to get along without offending. As an American military dependant we were told that while in a foreign country to always remember we were a guest, to respect the culture and laws of the country we were in.

Mexico instead of teaching it's citizens to respect America and it's culture to remember they are only guest, even if uninvited guest, have instead encouraged them to invade our country and ignore our laws. To me this invasion is an act of war and anyone who supports it is either ignorant, blind or a traitor.

As the daughter of an Army officer and a legal-Immigrant Belgian mother and having lived in several different countries and states, including CA for 6 years, I must say ----I second your statement wholeheartedly!!!! Thank you!

Originally Posted by NoBueno

The argument law enforcement will abuse this law is unfounded and based entirely on hysteria. I trust that law enforcement will conduct themselves as professionals when questioning individuals in respect to 1070. I’m sorry if you don’t.

I agree. This reminds me of when Texas voted on concealed hand gun permits. The liberals hysterically claimed Texas would return to the wild west and there would be gun fights on every street corner. Years later the millions of law abiding Texans who have carry permits never cause a problem. It's still the same criminals who are doing all the shooting. We trust our law enforcement to do their jobs as we are a nation of laws. When they don't do their jobs we fire them. I think for the most part law enforcement acts very professional and does a great job and have no doubt they will do the same when enforcing SB 1070. Hysteria and fear mongering is the only way progressive liberals have to scare people into not agreeing with this law. Just like they tried to do with carry permits here in Texas and just like they are still doing with our 2nd Amendment rights.

I find it hard to believe that it has come to this but …. 'the time for being nice IS over'!

Originally Posted by pourpaix

Thank you for your concern, but it's unwarranted. Please do not suggest I have not studied the facts simply because you disagree with my position. The argument law enforcement will abuse this law is unfounded and based entirely on hysteria. I trust that law enforcement will conduct themselves as professionals when questioning individuals in respect to 1070. I’m sorry if you don’t.

After rethinking my position, I stand by my comments. You can make any excuse you like, but the Nazi comparisons have no place in this debate, irrespective of the rational for them being used.

An excuse for what?? Wanting to to insure that our rights and freedoms as Americans are protected down the line? You don't see it now but what if this gets turned around to include American citizens?

This is the part that scares me most and should scare most Americans. As long as there are people in positions of power, there is always the possibilty of abusing that power because PEOPLE are HUMAN. It's been that way throughout history so to say that it is hysterical to say otherwise is to ignore the many abuses throughout history and what is happening in our country today. That's why we have a CONSTITUTION. It's for OUR PROTECTION, and all of us would be better served to put our trust in that, rather than any person or government/state institution. I think it's insane to do otherwise!

I applaud the spirit in which AZ is attempting to assert it's state sovereignty, but I think the citizens would have been better served to just eliminate the incentives that attract the illegals, which would also save tax payers millions of dollars without leading to possible future abuses of power against American citizens.

I've been on the front lines as an activist in my community in the fight against illegal immigration from the very beginning, when the media and politicians were ignoring it. However, I have seen the slow and deliberate chipping away of our liberties starting with Bush and continuing with Obama. That's why I cannot allow my emotions to dictate where I stand on the AZ bill. I've decided that as long as I go by what is lawful under the constitution - (despite any emotional disagreements I may to the contrary), at least I know it will ALWAYS serve to protect my rights and liberties as well as my fellow citizens. And if some people equate that as being a "Ronbot" as has been used on this forum as an insult to those supporting Constitutional principles like Ron Paul, then I'm proud to be one. Because get this.... so was Thomas Jefferson and John Adams!

Originally Posted by NoBueno

Thank you for your concern, but it's unwarranted. Please do not suggest I have not studied the facts simply because you disagree with my position. The argument law enforcement will abuse this law is unfounded and based entirely on hysteria. I trust that law enforcement will conduct themselves as professionals when questioning individuals in respect to 1070. I’m sorry if you don’t.

After rethinking my position, I stand by my comments. You can make any excuse you like, but the Nazi comparisons have no place in this debate, irrespective of the rational for them being used.

+1,000,000

I remember when there were quite a few Ronbots who posted here that were against building a double layer fence on the southern border because, among other things, it could one day be used to keep Americans in instead of keeping illegal invaders out. Now that same camp of libertarians are whining about SB1070 even though federal law already requires resident aliens to keep their green cards on them at all times. They really don't have a problem with open borders and illegal immigration as long as illegal aliens don't use our "social services". A permanent underclass of cheap illegal labor would suit them just fine. Disgusting.

Some further reading on the subject:

This article will detail why SB1070 threatens the liberty of all citizens. SB1070 is the symptom of a disease threatening all citizens. The federal government has and is failing on several fronts including dealing with illegal immigration. The states and specifically the state of Arizona is the victim of a knee jerk reaction to the federal government’s failures. This article will put SB1070 in the context of what the federal government wants which is any and all information about each citizen.

In this article you will read about an alternative solution to SB1070 and federal laws including the Real ID Act 2005. Keep in mind that information is power and currently only the federal government is collecting information. The information the federal government is collecting is your information and it is being shared with international law enforcement agencies and foreign governments at the discretion of the federal government.


Many people will agree that our country must deal with the problem of illegal immigration. The Constitutional Alliance is an educational entity.
The purpose of SB1070 is to identify people in our country, specifically Arizona, illegally and insure those people are sent back to their country of origin.



It is time to consider the following facts:

1) The following is the wording contained in the legislation:
E. Except as provided in federal law, officials or agencies of this state and counties, cities, towns and other political subdivisions of this state may not be prohibited or in any way be restricted from sending, receiving or maintaining information relating to the immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of any individual or exchanging that information with any other federal, state or local governmental entity for the following official purposes:

1. Determining eligibility for any public benefit, service or license provided by any federal, state, local or other political subdivision of this state.


2. Verifying any claim of residence or domicile if determination of residence or domicile is required under the laws of this state or a judicial order issued pursuant to a civil or criminal proceeding in this state.

2) SB1070 is and will be used as a “toolâ€