Thread: We Need a Nationl ID Card

Originally Posted by judyweller

The song and dance about show me a 10 foot fence and I will show you an 11 foot ladder is a canard. I am sure the razor wire they are putting on some sections of the fence will slow things down a lot, But there is a lot of opposition to the razor wire-- and that could be a court issue -- which could take months to resolve. And if the suit is filed in California you can be assured that 9th Circuit will say that it is a violation of "human Rights".

We do not even need razor wire. The proposed fence is a DUAL fence, with a highway in the middle for BP vehicles to operate. If someone has an 11 foot ladder to get past the first fence, they will be SOL when trying to cross the second.....by that time, the ground sensors will detect them, and BP will be all over them.

I think dredging the Rio Grand to widen and deepen it ( to say 15 feet) with a high bank on the US is really probably a better design than the fence in areas where it can be used. Moat worked really well in the Middle Ages against invaders and they can work against Mexican invaders too. It is must harder to climb up a bank which rises up at a 90% from the bank than to lean a ladder against a fence.

The Rio Grande only represents the border on the Texas fronteir. Most of the invasion goes through AZ. No Rio Grande here in SD either.

Originally Posted by MW

odiesback wrote:

I am also all for the Real ID.

The sooner the better.

Real ID is not a national ID card. The federal government does not maintain or control input to the individual state DMV databases. Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation regarding Real ID being spread around the web. With that said, I too support Real ID.

When a law dictates standards to the states regarding their IDs - the state's ID has been nationalized...however you want to look at it - that's a national ID...

...just like NCLB is a back door attempt at nationalizing curriculum standards...

...just like the National Guard is an attempt to permanently nationalize state militias and prevent purely state controlled militias thereon.


Remember, the federal government has passports, green cards and visas. All they have to do is strengthen those via improvements on their technologies - and by sealing the border and limiting immigration to that which is legal and needed.

NO FURTHER LAWS ARE NEEDED - NO NATIONALIZATION OF ANYTHING IS NEEEDED.

Simply enforce existing laws...

=

How else do you propose to track and identify illegal immigrants -- we need to be sure we have a means of legally differentiating the citizens from the illegals.

How do you do this ? As I speak (write), there is someone out there using my identity. I know for a fact this person or persons have applied for employment using my name. There may a discrepancy in age or gender that would require a new birth certificate. How difficult would it be to forge a new one ? I happen to have a first name that can be male or female, and a last name that is Italian, but could be passed off as Hispanic. The police, only reluctantly, take a fraud report. The SS office refuses to issue me a new number. No one cares ! So, if this person, that is masquerading as me, applies for a Real ID, does he/she get one, and if yes, where does that leave me ?

BearFlagRepublic wrote:

We do not even need razor wire. The proposed fence is a DUAL fence, with a highway in the middle for BP vehicles to operate. If someone has an 11 foot ladder to get past the first fence, they will be SOL when trying to cross the second.....by that time, the ground sensors will detect them, and BP will be all over them.

You're right, the fence originally proposed and signed into law was Duncan Hunter's double-layered fence with the works (sensors, stadium lighting, and high-speed road between layers). Here's what Hunter's fence has done in San Diego:

Excerpt:

The San Diego Border Fence works:

Illegal alien apprehensions along the fenced region were reduced from over 202,000 in 1992 to approximately 9,000 in 2004. Further, it is estimated that the apprehensions vs. attempts ratio increased to over 90%;

Following the establishment of the San Diego Border Fence, crime rates in San Diego have fallen dramatically. According to the FBI Crime Index, crime in San Diego County dropped 47.3% between 1989 to 2000;

Vehicle drive-throughs in the region have fallen from between 6 to 10 per day before the construction of border infrastructure to only four drive-throughs in 2004, all of which were isolated in locations where secondary fencing is incomplete;

The fence has forced drug smugglers, who once crossed the San Diego border without contest, to focus their efforts of access through America’s ports of entry, significantly increasing the likelihood of discovery and seizure of illegal narcotics entering the U.S.

http://www.house.gov/hunter/news_prior_ ... dment.html

Yes, we need a border fence. However, the wrong fence isn't much better than no fence at all.

I SUPPORT BUILDING THE HUNTER FENCE ALONG THE ENTIRE BORDER!

I hear what you all are saying, and some of it sounds like a certain political group who is afraid that the government is out to get them. In their favorite candidate's words, "CHANGE" is what we really need in this case. How many of you out there who are against the READ ID, have a credit card, birth certificate, SSAN card, marriage certificate, driver's license, bank account, and pay taxes. The information is already out there, the READ ID is just a verification method.

. How many of you out there who are against the READ ID, have a credit card, birth certificate, SSAN card, marriage certificate, driver's license, bank account, and pay taxes. The information is already out there, the READ ID is just a verification method.

All the doc's you mentioned can be falsified or re-established using a stolen identity. When one's identity is stolen, the usual way you find that out, is when the creditors track you down. As the "victim" you have to prove it wasn't you,who perpetrated the crime. That isn't an easy thing to do, because, you are who you say you are, and you are who they say they are. No employer called me to verify the information that was given them. No landlords called me to verify references, and yet this person was able to establish a "business" using my personal information. Only, after they moved on, leaving behind a huge unpaid phone bill, did I discover my identity had been hijacked. No agency or department has ever notified me or contacted me. The information I was able to obtain was only because I have a friend who works in the fraud department of a banking institution......yes, THAT bank. I wish you could hear some of the horror stories she tells regarding ID theft.

I have no faith in a government who has failed to protect us in every way, and a sytem whose only purpose is to track the people, whether legal or illegal. It matters not to them, one iota, they only want to know where we are at all times.

BTW

I didn't mention that as of April 08, my personal information was once again hijacked, this time from my online banking account. I was notified, by the bank, that they had closed out my credit card account, and I was issued a new one. I've been advised, by the bank, to keep a close eye on all my bank statements etc for further fraud activity. How's that for security !

About The Issue: 7 problems with Real ID


What’s Wrong With Real ID
It’s a national identity system. The standardized national driver’s licenses created by Real ID would become a key part of a system of identity papers, databases, status and identity checks and access control points – an “internal passportâ€

http://www.realnightmare.org/about/1/

Informative letter and link. Thanks.

You're welcome Nicie.


Real ID Act Will Increase Exposure to ID Theft

If you think identity theft is bad now, wait until something called the Real ID Act goes into effect. This law federalizes and standardizes state driver’s licenses for all 50 states, and it will result in something that has been resisted in this country for a long time -- a de facto national identity card.

The Real ID Act was pushed through Congress in 2005 with little meaningful debate. It imposes sweeping changes on state driver’s licenses that will result in significant new fees and hassles for everyone who needs a license or ID – not to mention posing a new threat to Americans’ privacy. And, our experience suggests that if Real ID becomes the standard for driver’s licenses, it will worsen the problem of identity theft.

The Privacy Rights Clearinghouse (PRC) has worked with thousands of ID theft victims, providing them with information and assistance in regaining their financial health. It usually takes months to repair the damage that ID thieves are able to cause in just a few minutes – if there’s an especially aggressive thief, it can take a year, even more. And during that time you’re in credit limbo. You can’t get a credit card, take out a loan, refinance your home – or if you do, the cost of your credit is much higher than it otherwise would be.

A lot of what makes it so difficult for victims is that they run up against a presumption that the transactions completed in their name are legitimate. Banks, merchants, and other creditors assume that the purchases that were made and the loans that were given belong to the victim – and the victim is forced to prove otherwise.

Real ID may just strengthen that presumption. If someone succeeds in getting a counterfeit Real ID under your name, you’ll have to confront a perception that Real IDs are more secure and difficult to obtain fraudulently.

Unfortunately, we all know that these IDs will be counterfeited within hours of release – and if they are perceived as super-reliable, they will be all the more valuable and attractive as a target for crooks. Crooks have always proven to be very clever and able to make IDs look realistic, and we have no reason to doubt this will be any different. They will figure it out very quickly – or simply bribe a DMV official somewhere in the country to provide a genuine (but fraudulent) card. A number of cases of bribery at DMVs have come to light in recent years. And merchants and government clerks simply are not experts in determining whether an ID they’re looking at is the real thing.

Real ID will also create new opportunities for ID thieves to commit their crime. The law requires DMVs to store scanned copies of birth certificates, Social Security cards, and any other documents that individuals present when they apply for a license. It creates a national linked database allowing millions of employees at all levels of government around the nation to access personal data. And it mandates a nationally standardized “machine-readable zoneâ€