Thread: What are the facts on Ron Paul?

In the interests of fairly evaluating Ron Paul, I found this website.

I want to be fair on the Ron Paul issue. After all, if McCain become the nominee, I might consider voting for him as a 3rd party candidate.

Help me to determine if this information is accurate:
some excerpts from:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/19 ... ts?page=46

Ron Paul’s Immigration Record
Source: http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=11832
URL Source: http://NumberUSA
Published: Oct 29, 2007
Author: Excerpted from : http://www.federalobser

Paul’s Immigration Voting Record & Report Card on the NumbersUSA website:

(1) Paul consistently voted every year since 1999 against putting the military on the border:

2006: H. Amdt. 206 to H.R. 1815 2004: Goode Amendment to H.R. 4200 2003: Goode Amendment to H.R. 1588 2002: H. Amdt. 479 to H.R. 4546 2001: Traficant amendment to HR 2586 2000: Traficant amendment to H.R.4205 1999: Trafficant Amendment to H.R. 1401.

(2) Paul voted in 1997, 2001( H.R. 1885) and 2002 (H RES 365) to grant, extend or continue Section 245-i amnesties for illegal aliens.

(3) Paul voted NO on extending the voluntary Basic Pilot Workplace Verification Program (H.R. 2359),

(4) Paul voted NO on the border fence in 2005 (Hunter Amendment to HR 4437 - “Enforcement Onlyâ€

It's not a done deal that McCain is the nominee.

Romney and McCain are tied in the latest Rasmussen poll.

Mitt Romney vetoed in-state tuition for illegal aliens, opposed driver licenses for illegal aliens, supported English immersion and supports Section 287(g) training of state and local law enforcement officers.

Originally Posted by tancredofan

It's not a done deal that McCain is the nominee.

Romney and McCain are tied in the latest Rasmussen poll.

Mitt Romney vetoed in-state tuition for illegal aliens, opposed driver licenses for illegal aliens, supported English immersion and supports Section 287(g) training of state and local law enforcement officers.

I'm glad to hear it's not a 'done deal'.

But if the facts show that Ron Paul does not have a good position on illegal immigration, then voters could decide to vote for Romney instead of Ron Paul.

When the election campaigning began, I was 100% for Ron Paul. I liked Tancredo and Hunter also. I supported Paul by dollars and by passing the word.

However, the more he speaks, the less I like him. The major sticking points: Immediate withdrawal from Iraq, and making the U.S. isolationist.

As for a 3rd party vote, ANYONE who does this is aiding in selling out this country. First, a 3rd party candidate doesn't stand a snowballs chance in Hades. Second, all it would do is siphon votes away from someone who could help us. Being down to Shillary, Hussein, McShame, Huckster and Romney, Romney is the only chance we have of saving our country.

So go ahead, don't vote for Romney, don't work to help get him elected. Siphon off votes. GIVE IT TO SHILLARY, HUSSEIN OR McSHAME.

But after the elction, when the 20-35 million ILLEGAL ALIENS get their SHAMNESTY, and the national debt doubles from all the new programs, and national heath care makes your medical decisions for you, DON'T COMPLAIN.

I think this is a good article explaining RP's immigration position, though I can see why one could be concerned. I feel confident he would be tough on illegal immigration.

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002612.html

Juan Hernandez Joins
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I Was Wrong About Ron Paul On Immigration
By Digger


So I sat down tonight to finally get around to writing my hit piece about Ron Paul on his immigration stance.
That's right, a hit piece that would shut you Ron Paul wackos supporters up once and for all about how tough Ron Paul is on immigration.

For some reason through briefly glancing over his record at one point and reading some articles over the years, I had come to the conclusion that he was a fake, a fraud and had just jumped on the immigration bandwagon.

How wrong I was!

I truly don't know how I made that mistake - It probably was the H1-B visa issue I mention below - but here's the information that I've dug up on my long awaited witch hunt - that turned into almost total admiration - for Ron Paul on immigration.

First, let me preface this with the meaning of "almost total admiration". I am a Tancredo supporter. You can't "out Tancredo", Tancredo on immigration, it simply isn't possible and hence the "almost total admiration" bit.

A quick overview of Ron Paul. He's been a Republican Representative for Texas since 1997. He is a member of the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus founded by Tom Tancredo in 1999 (and currently led by Brian Bilbray). He has an almost lunatic and hellbent group of supporters out there that always show up at every rally I've been to (one time with a guy wearing a Ben Franklin outfit). He also has managed to turn these supporters into donors, racking up some impressive cash to support his candidacy.

OK, enough on that basic info. Here is what you really need to know about Ron Paul and immigration.

I'm not going to just spout what he's been saying on his website. All of this information below is backed up with hardcore action through Ron Paul actually voting and signing official letters in Congress.


"We have security issues at home and our resources are running thin. Our education system is stretched, and immigration accounts for virtually all the national increase in public school enrollment in the last 2 decades. There is a worker present in 78% of immigrant households using at least one major welfare program... It’s no surprise then that often times these immigrants can afford to work for lower wages. They are subsidized by our government to do so." - Ron Paul




Birthright Citizenship

Gone, Finito, Adios! Ron Paul would end the practice of "anchor babies", "jackpot babies", birthright citizenship or whatever you want to call it.

He has personally co-sponsored 5 bills going all the way back to his first appearances on Capitol Hill in 1997 to end birthright citizenship and the practice of giving US citizenship to the children of illegal aliens.

There's no doubts on his stance on this.

"The anchor baby phenomenon has also been very problematic. Simply being born on US soil to illegal immigrant parents should not trigger automatic citizenship. This encourages many dangerous behaviors and there are many unintended consequences as a result of this blanket policy. I am against amnesty and I have introduced an amendment to the Constitution (H.J. Res 46) which will end this form of amnesty." - Ron Paul




Funding Illegal Alien Social Services

La Raza won't like Ron Paul one single bit when it comes to all the freebies that illegal aliens currently get.

Oh yes, Ron Paul would not just do away with some little programs they receive, but would take away the following current gifts they receive from US taxpayers.

public schooling
social security
welfare
free healthcare
food stamps
any other form of government assistance
In addition he voted against the "Totalization" agreement several times that would have given illegal aliens from Mexico US Social Security.

"Right now we are subsidizing a lot of illegal immigration with our robust social programs and it is an outrage that instead of coming to the United States as a land of opportunity, many come for the security guaranteed by government forced transfer payments through our welfare system. I have opposed giving federal assistance to illegal immigrants and have introduced legislation that ends this practice. In the last major House-passed immigration bill I attempted to introduce an amendment that would make illegal immigrants ineligible for any federal assistance." - Ron Paul




Sanctuary Policies

Goodbye to funding for states and cities using sanctuary policies.

Ron Paul has voted to deny federal funding to states that won't work and share information with federal immigration agencies. Voted to deny highway funding to states that issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens. Remember these are actual votes, not just a lot of talk about it. The vote against highway funding was in 2003, long before presidential campaigns were forcing people like Romney, Giuliani and Huckabee to play some game with immigration.




Border Security And Local Enforcement

Ron Paul voted for the border fence. He has also voted several times for state and local law enforcment to be allowed to help enforce immigration law. The one thing he has voted against time and again is putting troops on the border. He has however voted for bills to increase the Border Patrol.

"I have also supported the strengthening our border and increasing the number of border patrol agents. It is an outrage that our best trained border guards are sent to Iraq instead of guarding our borders. For national security, we need to give more attention to our own border which is being illegally breached every day, and yet the government shirks one of its few constitutionally mandated duties, namely to defend this country. Citizens lose twice with our current insecure border situation – we don’t have the protection we should have, and then taxpayers have to deal with the fallout in the form of overstretched public resources and loss of jobs." - Ron Paul




Workplace Verification And Free Trade

Free trade affects immigration and Ron Paul is against it firmly. He voted against CFTA (Chile Free trade Agreement), SFTA (Singapore Free trade Agreement) and CAFTA (Central American Free trade Agreement). He also voted to prevent immigration related items to be included in Free Trade Agreements. Some sneaky people were trying to include special country related immigration allowances in these agreements as part of the deal.

Where Paul is wobbly is on workplace enforcement. He voted against the Basic Pilot Program employment verification system in 2003, but then voted in favor of HR 4437 in 2005, which included the Basic Pilot Program in it. He also voted against funding the REAL ID Act and to not tie a driver's license expiration date to a visa expiration date. From what I've seen and read this all seems to have something to do with his stance on privacy rights, not the opposition to making sure workers are legal. I'd like to ask him what his proposal for verifying workers is if he doesn't agree with E-VERIFY, which is what Basic Pilot is now known as.




Matricula Consular And Other Non-Verified Foreign Documents

Ron Paul has stood firmly against "ID Cards" issued by Consulates like the Matricula Consular issued by Mexican Consulates throughout the US. Paul has voted against their acceptance by financial institutions as well as against their acceptance by federal agencies and authorities.




Foreign Workers

Another small strike against Paul is his voting in favor of doubling high tech worker H1-B visas in 1998. In that same year he also voted against a bill that would have required that businesses ensure that they've actively tried to hire an American worker before applying to have a foreign worker come here on a visa like the H1-B.

I find that to be a little shameful that he would allow for the free flow of new foreign workers that could displace Americans. However, look at the date of that vote. 1998. The dot-com bubble was just about to take off and and I was there at the time. Things were hopping and there truly was a shortage of workers at the time. I think there should have been a cliff though with the bill and it should have been up for review every other year to ensure that our tech workforce wasn't decimated like it was.




Visa Lottery

Gone...

Ron Paul has voted many times to get rid of the Visa Lottery. A worthless system that draws names out of a hat as to who comes here rather than looking at their qualifications and what they can do for our country and reasonings for coming here.




Mexican Trucks

"Rather than securing our borders, we seem to be providing more pores for illegal aliens, drug dealers, and terrorists to permeate. ... Not only that, but the anti-competitive and burdensome yoke of over-regulation of our industry at home is about to send a lot more Americans to the unemployment lines." - Ron Paul (1)




Other Items

Paul has also signed two letters directly related to immigration to the speaker of the House. The first was to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert opposing an amnesty for illegal aliens in 2000. The second was a letter to Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi in 2007 from the Immigration Reform Caucus opposing the introduction of immigration legislation.




In Closing

So I stand corrected. Ron Paul is a true blue immigration warrior and I made a mistake somehow in thinking otherwise. This does not mean that I endorse him on other issues such as an immediate pull out of Iraq or the closing of Guantanamo Bay or the belief in the North American Union (although some of his other ideas are intriguing), just that his immigration stance truly is one that takes the issue head on in the right way and has for over 10 years.

You can read more about Ron Paul and his immigration stance at Americans for Better Immigration and the official Ron Paul 2008 Website

But if McCain is the Republican nominee, there is no harm in running a 3rd party candidate. McCain is worse that Hillary or Obama, and he would have some influence over Republican Senators and Congressmen.

If the Dems won the Presidency, the Republican Congress would more likely oppose Dem bills for immigration reform and open borders.

Originally Posted by Lynne

I think this is a good article explaining RP's immigration position, though I can see why one could be concerned. I feel confident he would be tough on illegal immigration.

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002612.html

Lynne,
Does this article respond to the issues posed in the opening post of this topic?

I read the list of RP votes. I would have voted no on most of them also. You should remember, we are not an anti-immigration group. We are an anti-illegal immigration group. Additionally, RP is a state's rights advocate and a constitutionalist, many of the issues in the list where instances where the federal government was over-reaching into the rights of states and citizens. We need more like him.

UB

Originally Posted by UB

I read the list of RP votes. I would have voted no on most of them also. You should remember, we are not an anti-immigration group. We are an anti-illegal immigration group. Additionally, RP is a state's rights advocate and a constitutionalist, many of the issues in the list where instances where the federal government was over-reaching into the rights of states and citizens. We need more like him.

UB

On the issue of national defense, immigration (legal or illegal) and national border security, the power of the federal government should always trump states' rights.

Originally Posted by UB

I read the list of RP votes. I would have voted no on most of them also. You should remember, we are not an anti-immigration group. We are an anti-illegal immigration group. Additionally, RP is a state's rights advocate and a constitutionalist, many of the issues in the list where instances where the federal government was over-reaching into the rights of states and citizens. We need more like him.

UB

This occurred to me today:
The media and it seems everybody (even his supporters) have tried to get the man to commit to running 3rd party if he does not get the GOP nomination. Why? Because they want him gone.

My understanding is that you can run for President and Congress in Texas at the same time under the LBJ rule as long as you are running for both in the same party. If I am correct about this, then if he went 3rd party or Independent he would not be able to run for his congressional seat and THAT WOULD BE BAD! Because I don't want him completely out of government. We need him up there.

With that said, I'll vote for him and support him no matter what he chooses.