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  1. #11
    Senior Member jp_48504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS
    Give the real ID to people they need to track that they let into this country from all around the world who over stay their visa, etc. don't track me like an animal.


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  2. #12

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    magyart WROTE

    In my humble opinion, if you are relying on information from Tom DeWeese, President of American Policy Making, you are NOT getting fair and balanced information. He has been waging a propaganda campaign against the SAVE Act for some time now.

    I tried to look at the information provided by your links, but they failed to work.

    In regard to the SAVE Act, it's already WORKING at the state level. It's being implemented in AZ and OK. Soon, SC will join they. Illegals are self deporting from those states. If it works on the state level, it will work nationally.

    The federal govet ALREADY has ALL the information about YOU, it needs. The SAVE Act doesn't require additional information. It does force employers to actually VERIFY an employees social security number. This is a NEW law. Presently, no federal law requires any employer to actually verify the legal status of an employee.

    I believe the SAVE Act will make us safer, by reducing the number of illegal aliens that can easily secure any type of employment.
    I'm sorry the links I provided didn't work for you. That's a mystery, because they work for me. There are several bills called Save Act. Perhaps you didn't specify H. R. 4088 ? The links do provide information from sources other than Tom DeWeese.

    It was not my intention to say which states are or are not implementing the Save ACT H. R. 4088, or the REAL ID, but rather to show some of what, IMO, are possible pitfalls to Americans, and possible benefits to illegal aliens.

    I didn't say the Save Act requires additional information. I am saying neither of these bills will reduce identity theft, but will actually make it easier. There isn't a document out there that can't be duplicated or falsified to fit the needs of the person applying for a REAL ID or employment through E-Verify. The background checks on all applicants alone, ( have )will overwhelm the system, which is why the original extensions were granted to all 50 states in the first place.

    IMO these two bills result, over time, in a TRINational ID Card necessary to further the agenda of the NAU. IMO neither of these bills will reduce the number of illegal aliens, simply because our borders will never be closed. One way or another, the Fed's intend to incorporate the IA's into our society.

    Because I don't support these bills, as they stand, doesn't mean I oppose any legislature that will, in fact, protect Americans, and rid us of illegals.

    There's a whole lot of information available, that requires a lot of reading. I'm certainly open to any information that will refute the conclusions I've come to.
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  3. #13
    MW
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    Nicie wrote:

    I didn't say the Save Act requires additional information. I am saying neither of these bills will reduce identity theft, but will actually make it easier. There isn't a document out there that can't be duplicated or falsified to fit the needs of the person applying for a REAL ID or employment through E-Verify. The background checks on all applicants alone, ( have )will overwhelm the system, which is why the original extensions were granted to all 50 states in the first place.
    Are you implying that Real ID and the SAVE Act are dependent on each other and/or are somehow related? If so, it's not true (regardless of what DeWeese thinks or says). Also, what background checks are you talking about? Applying for a Real ID driver's license or identification card doesn't require a background check. What it does do is require that all documentation be verified through it's originating source. That is not a background check, it's a verification of document authenticity. Where did you read that the Real ID extension was granted specifically to provide more time for background checks? The extension was provided because DHS recognizes that States cannot meet the full requirements of the Act by May 11, 2008.

    As for E-Verify, the program is currently not mandatory but as magyart said, it is working for the states and individual businesses that are using the program. Employers using E-Verify run applicants SSN through the Social Security Administration database to ensure the name and SSN number match and that the SSN is valid. It has absolutely nothing to do with Real ID. By the way, how do you reconcile the fact that the voluntary Workplace Verification Pilot Program was passed into law prior to Real ID hitting the drawing board? Neither Real ID or E-verify were writtin with the other program in mind.

    You seem to ignore a lot of facts simply because they don't fit into your tidy idea of how our government is constantly out to screw the American people. I'll grant you, our government is far from perfect. However, they do get things right on occasion. Moreover, the spreading of misinformation to cloud the real issues is not conducive to an honest debate.

    Magyart wrote:

    In my humble opinion, if you are relying on information from Tom DeWeese, President of American Policy Making, you are NOT getting fair and balanced information.
    Thank you, magyart.

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  4. #14

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    MW



    I think I've addressed most of which you took issue with.


    Please see my next post.


    implement section 202 of the REAL ID Act of 2005 (49 U.S.C. 30301 note);


    (4) provide individuals with procedural and substantive due process, including rules and right of appeal, to challenge errors in data records contained within the databases created to implement section 202 of the REAL ID Act of 2005;
    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi ( if the link fails to open, click on "Thomas Home", type in REAL ID.




    Though the Department of Homeland Security has yet to find solutions to problems in the current E-Verify system, it has chosen to expand data collection and data sharing, creating even more opportunities for errors. DHS announced it will add visa and passport databases to E-Verify, and ask states to "voluntarily" allow DHS access to their motor vehicle databases. This is certainly "mission creep," where DHS would be able to use for employment purposes the data collected for licensing drivers and issuing state identification cards.

    It is unclear what "voluntary" means in this context. Questions arise because of the parallel REAL ID system currently under construction at the Department of Homeland Security. The REAL ID Act of 2005 is a law imposing federal technological standards and verification procedures on state driver's licenses and identification cards, many of which are beyond the current capacity of the federal government, and mandating state compliance by May 2008.[71] REAL ID includes the requirement that states allow the federal government to link together their databases.

    http://epic.org/privacy/surveillance/sp ... fault.html


    Documentation Requirements; IMO Verification could result in a background check.

    Section 202(c)(3) of the Real ID Act [16] requires the states to "verify with the issuing agency the issuance validity and completeness of each document" that is required to be presented by a driver's license applicant to prove their identity birth date legal status in the U.S.social security number and the address of their principal residence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act


    A BILL
    To extend the deadline by which State identification documents shall comply with certain minimum standards and for other purposes.

    `(2) LACK OF VALIDATION SYSTEMS- If the Secretary determines that the Federal or State electronic systems required to verify the validity and completeness of documents under section 202(c)(3) are not available to any State on the date described in section 202(a)(1)the requirements under section 202(c)(1) shall not apply to any State until adequate electronic validation systems are available to all States.'.
    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c ... 110Xb7V5E::

    ( if this page fails to open, click on "Thomas Home", type in REAL ID see line 1 (S.563.IS )

    I did not say is not say E-VERIFY is not "WORKING".

    GAO found "a number of weaknesses in the pilot program's implementation including its inability to detect identity fraud and DHS delays in entering data into its databases could adversely affect increased use of the pilot program if not addressed."[79] These weaknesses have not been addressed even though the employment eligibility verification system has been increased by more than 1000 percent. Illinois and others are right to be wary of E-Verify and other states should look closely at the shortcomings of the employment eligibility verification system.
    http://epic.org/privacy/surveillance/sp ... fault.html
    IT'S NOT HOW YOU GET IN, IT'S HOW YOU GET OUT

  5. #15

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    MW WROTE

    Why couldn't you have posted this information on one of the several other threads you and JP have recently started on this issue? Why continue to beat a dead horse (repeat the same information over and over).

    I've made every attempt to ignore your rudeness. Until you learn some manners, please do not address me again. You are two clicks away from another topic of discussion.
    IT'S NOT HOW YOU GET IN, IT'S HOW YOU GET OUT

  6. #16
    Senior Member CitizenJustice's Avatar
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    Still against it!!!!!

  7. #17
    MW
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    Nicie wrote:

    I've made every attempt to ignore your rudeness. Until you learn some manners, please do not address me again. You are two clicks away from another topic of discussion.
    IMO, I'm not being rude, however, I am asking a legitimate question. Perhaps it could be perceived that you are being rude by failing to answer the question.

    FYI: Last time I checked this was an open forum. You don't get to choose who can and can't respond to your posts.

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  8. #18

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    MW You have become an unwelcome guest in my home. You give me a headache !
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  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by MW
    William wrote:

    If you research the ID issue closely, you can see that Real ID is not designed to prevent illegal aliens from getting licenses. Here in NC, they setup the Real ID technology a few years back and continued giving Real IDs to illegal aliens.
    I was told by a NC DMV employee that Real ID would not go into effect until July 1, 2008. I know NC has been issuing cards with the North American Hologram (yuk) but cards issued prior to the July 1st date are not in full compliance with the requirements of Real ID. Here's what will be required, effective July 1st in NC:

    - Iinformation and security features must be incorporated into each card.
    - Proof of identity and U.S. citizenship or legal status of an applicant.
    - Verification of the source documents provided by an applicant.

    Also, specific security standards are required for the offices that issue licenses and identification cards.

    Currently all that is required for a license renewal in NC is a current driver's license and proof of insurance (changes July 1st).

    States in compliance with Real ID can issue driving permits to illegals if they want. However, those permits cannot be used to board commercial aircraft or enter government buildings (they won't meet requirments of Real ID). Issuing the permits has nothing to do with Real ID - it's a state issue that the federal government has nothing to do with, nor do they encourage it.

    Real ID will not be issued to illegal aliens.
    Right on MW, if the rules are followed NO Real ID will be issued to illegals.
    Others are having a problem with understanding this. Without the Real ID States like NC will issue ID's to illegals and when they do it's not following the rule of law as given in the Real ID.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by MW
    William wrote:

    If you research the ID issue closely, you can see that Real ID is not designed to prevent illegal aliens from getting licenses. Here in NC, they setup the Real ID technology a few years back and continued giving Real IDs to illegal aliens.
    I was told by a NC DMV employee that Real ID would not go into effect until July 1, 2008. I know NC has been issuing cards with the North American Hologram (yuk) but cards issued prior to the July 1st date are not in full compliance with the requirements of Real ID. Here's what will be required, effective July 1st in NC:

    - Iinformation and security features must be incorporated into each card.
    - Proof of identity and U.S. citizenship or legal status of an applicant.
    - Verification of the source documents provided by an applicant.

    Also, specific security standards are required for the offices that issue licenses and identification cards.

    Currently all that is required for a license renewal in NC is a current driver's license and proof of insurance (changes July 1st).

    States in compliance with Real ID can issue driving permits to illegals if they want. However, those permits cannot be used to board commercial aircraft or enter government buildings (they won't meet requirments of Real ID). Issuing the permits has nothing to do with Real ID - it's a state issue that the federal government has nothing to do with, nor do they encourage it.

    Real ID will not be issued to illegal aliens.
    Right on MW, if the rules are followed NO Real ID will be issued to illegals.
    Others are having a problem with understanding this. Without the Real ID States like NC will issue ID's to illegals and when they do it's not following the rule of law as given in the Real ID.

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