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Joined: Aug 05, 2008 Posts: 12712 Location: PARADISE (San Diego)
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject: Agents Seize 316,000 Bongs Disguised as Christmas Ornaments
Customs Agents Seize 316,000 Bongs Disguised as Christmas Ornaments
Thursday, November 19, 2009
LOS ANGELES — Customs officials say they got a surprise when they found 316,000 glass bongs disguised as Christmas ornaments at the Los Angeles harbor.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection said Thursday that agents found the highly decorated drug pipes in 860 boxes shipped from China. The cargo, estimated to be worth more than $2.6 million, had been described as glass figures and Christmas ornaments.
The bongs were seized Tuesday at the Los Angeles/Long Beach port complex.
Customs spokeswoman Cristina Gamez says the importer remains under investigation and there have been no arrests.
Their time would be better spent in my view seizing 316,000 illegal aliens instead of 316,000 "bongs". _________________ "A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation." Ronald Reagan "SAVE AMERICA, DEPORT CONGRESS." Judy
Last edited by Judy on Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Well, there went my decorations! _________________ Immigration is not a right that belongs to anybody and everybody who wants to come here. It is a privilege we Americans alone decide to convey. - Patrick J. Buchanan
Joined: Aug 05, 2008 Posts: 12712 Location: PARADISE (San Diego)
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject:
redpony353 wrote:
JohnDoe2 wrote:
Quote:
Customs Agents Seize 316,000 Bongs Disguised as Christmas Ornaments
Where will Santa get gifts for all of the stoners now?
Shame on Santa. Chinese bongs. That's what he gets for not buying American.
Manufacture, transportation, sales and possession of drug paraphernalia is illegal.
That's why Santa can't make them here. _________________ NO AMNESTY
DON'T REWARD THE CRIMINAL ACTIONS OF MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS
Joined: May 23, 2007 Posts: 4199 Location: california
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject:
OK. I just went and looke it up. Bongs are not illegal to buy or sell...or own. It is only if you use them to smoke something that is illegal. The illegal residue then re-classifys the pipe. But a clean bong? Not illegal. So...my question is.....why did they seize them? Why are they wasting time seizing something that is not illegal? FGS....this is one example why we have problems at the border.
Joined: May 23, 2007 Posts: 4199 Location: california
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:27 pm Post subject:
JohnDoe2 wrote:
redpony353 wrote:
JohnDoe2 wrote:
Quote:
Customs Agents Seize 316,000 Bongs Disguised as Christmas Ornaments
Where will Santa get gifts for all of the stoners now?
Shame on Santa. Chinese bongs. That's what he gets for not buying American.
Manufacture, transportation, sales and possession of drug paraphernalia is illegal.
That's why Santa can't make them here.
They are not illegal though. I went and checked. I already figured they were legal since all over San Francisco all the smoke shops sell them. They even display them in the front window. It is only classified as drug paraphanalia if an illegal substance or residue of such is found in them. Otherwise they are just a glass pipe.
Joined: Aug 05, 2008 Posts: 12712 Location: PARADISE (San Diego)
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:28 pm Post subject:
redpony353 wrote:
OK. I just went and looke it up. Bongs are not illegal to buy or sell...or own. It is only if you use them to smoke something that is illegal. The illegal residue then re-classifys the pipe. But a clean bong? Not illegal. So...my question is.....why did they seize them? Why are they wasting time seizing something that is not illegal? FGS....this is one example why we have problems at the border.
If they weren't illegal to import they wouldn't have been disguised as ornaments, Customs wouldn't be looking for them and they couldn't have seized them. _________________ NO AMNESTY
DON'T REWARD THE CRIMINAL ACTIONS OF MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS
Joined: May 23, 2007 Posts: 4199 Location: california
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject:
JohnDoe2 wrote:
redpony353 wrote:
OK. I just went and looke it up. Bongs are not illegal to buy or sell...or own. It is only if you use them to smoke something that is illegal. The illegal residue then re-classifys the pipe. But a clean bong? Not illegal. So...my question is.....why did they seize them? Why are they wasting time seizing something that is not illegal? FGS....this is one example why we have problems at the border.
If they weren't illegal to import they wouldn't have been disguised as ornaments, Customs wouldn't be looking for them and they couldn't have seized them.
I know...it makes no sense at all. It would seem if they seized them that they are illegal. But they are not. Smoke shops always sell them. Not just bongs but other pipes as well. And then there are those head type shops that dont sell tobacco, but they sell only pipes and posters....incense...like that. There are tons of those stores here in SF and around the Bay Area cities. And some of these stores have been there like 20 years. How would they be doing this if it were illegal? I dont get it. Was there something in the bongs? Or maybe they just cant be imported? But I know it has always been true that a glass pipe is just a glass pipe until it is used for something illegal. Maybe they found residue in them? I dont know. I agree with you....if they are not illegal why seize them....but I dont think they are illegal.
Joined: Aug 05, 2008 Posts: 12712 Location: PARADISE (San Diego)
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject:
From the D.E.A.
Drug Paraphernalia
Tools of the Illegal Drug Trade
What is drug paraphernalia?
Drug paraphernalia is any legitimate equipment, product, or material that is modified for making, using, or concealing illegal drugs such as cocaine, heroin, marijuana, and methamphetamine. Drug paraphernalia generally falls into two categories:
User-specific products
Dealer-specific products
User-specific products are marketed to drug users to assist them in taking or concealing illegal drugs. These products include certain pipes, smoking masks, bongs, cocaine freebase kits, marijuana grow kits, roach clips, and items such as hollowed out cosmetic cases or fake pagers used to conceal illegal drugs.
Dealer-specific products are used by drug traffickers for preparing illegal drugs for distribution at the street level. Items such as scales, vials, and baggies fall into this category. Drug paraphernalia does not include any items traditionally used with tobacco, like pipes and rolling papers.
What the law says
Under the Federal Drug Paraphernalia Statute, which is part of the Controlled Substances Act, it is illegal to possess, sell, transport, import, or export drug paraphernalia as defined. The law gives specific guidance on determining what constitutes drug paraphernalia. Many states have also enacted their own laws prohibiting drug paraphernalia.
Drug Paraphernalia Sales
With the rise of the drug culture in the United States in the 1960s and 1970s, the country began to see the appearance of “head shops,” which were stores that sold a wide range of drug paraphernalia. While some of the paraphernalia was crude and home-made, much was being commercially manufactured to cater to a fast-growing market. Enterprising individuals even sold items openly in the street, until anti-paraphernalia laws in the 1980s eventually ended such blatant sales. Today, law enforcement faces another challenge. With the advent of the Internet, criminals have greatly expanded their illicit sales to a worldwide market for drug paraphernalia. For example, in a recent law enforcement effort, Operation Pipedreams, the 18 companies targeted accounted for more than a quarter of a billion dollars in retail drug paraphernalia sales annually. Typically, such illicit businesses operate retail stores as well as websites posing as retailers of legitimate tobacco accessories when in reality the products are intended for the illegal drug trade.
What You Should Know
Drug paraphernalia is often marketed specifically to youth—with colorful logos, celebrity pictures, and designs like smiley faces on the products—the items are meant to look harmless and belie the dangers of taking controlled substances. Other paraphernalia like magic markers can conceal pipes, and small, hand-painted blown glass items look more like pretty trinkets than pipes or stash containers. Parents need to be aware that these kinds of products often conceal drug use.
Except for the following section it would be automatically illegal. But it is not automatically illegal. Of course no one....and I mean no one..buys a bong to use for tobacco. But if someone is caught with a bong, and there is no illegal residue, can it be proved that the intended use was illegal? So when it comes to the bongs that were seized, if the instructions that come with the bongs say they are for tobacco use, then they are legal because it cant be proven that they would use them any other way. And tobacco shops sell these all the time.....they say for use with tobacco....lol. OK...I dont believe that one....but a pipe is just a pipe. They would have to outlaw every kind of pipe...because any pipe could be used to smoke illegal substances.
"(e) Matters considered in determination of what constitutes drug paraphernalia
In determining whether an item constitutes drug paraphernalia, in addition to all other logically relevant factors, the following may be considered:
(1) instructions, oral or written, provided with the item concerning its use;
(2) descriptive materials accompanying the item which explain or depict its use;
(3) national and local advertising concerning its use;
(4) the manner in which the item is displayed for sale;
(5) whether the owner, or anyone in control of the item, is a legitimate supplier of like or related items to the community, such as a licensed distributor or dealer of tobacco products;
(6) direct or circumstantial evidence of the ratio of sales of the item(s) to the total sales of the business enterprise;
(7) the existence and scope of legitimate uses of the item in the community; and
() expert testimony concerning its use.
(f) Exemptions
This section shall not apply to -
(1) any person authorized by local, State, or Federal law to manufacture, possess, or distribute such items; or
(2) any item that, in the normal lawful course of business, is imported, exported, transported, or sold through the mail or by any other means, and traditionally intended for use with tobacco products,including any pipe, paper, or accessory"
We need to legalize/regulate/tax the illegal drug trade, run it as a legitimate regulated monitored enterprise and re-assign all customs and DEA agents now wasting their time seizing 316,000 colorful Christmas "bongs" to seizing illegal aliens and distributing them back to their home countries, so US citizens can get their jobs back and buy some Christmas presents for their kids in our country. _________________ "A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation." Ronald Reagan "SAVE AMERICA, DEPORT CONGRESS." Judy
Joined: Aug 05, 2008 Posts: 12712 Location: PARADISE (San Diego)
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:39 pm Post subject:
Quote:
User-specific products are marketed to drug users to assist them in taking or concealing illegal drugs. These products include certain pipes, smoking masks, bongs, cocaine freebase kits, marijuana grow kits, roach clips, and items such as hollowed out cosmetic cases or fake pagers used to conceal illegal drugs.
Dealer-specific products are used by drug traffickers for preparing illegal drugs for distribution at the street level. Items such as scales, vials, and baggies fall into this category. Drug paraphernalia does not include any items traditionally used with tobacco, like pipes and rolling papers.
What the law says
Under the Federal Drug Paraphernalia Statute, which is part of the Controlled Substances Act, it is illegal to possess, sell, transport, import, or export drug paraphernalia as defined. The law gives specific guidance on determining what constitutes drug paraphernalia.
Many states have also enacted their own laws prohibiting drug paraphernalia.
Joined: May 23, 2007 Posts: 4199 Location: california
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject:
JohnDoe2 wrote:
Quote:
User-specific products are marketed to drug users to assist them in taking or concealing illegal drugs. These products include certain pipes, smoking masks, bongs, cocaine freebase kits, marijuana grow kits, roach clips, and items such as hollowed out cosmetic cases or fake pagers used to conceal illegal drugs.
Dealer-specific products are used by drug traffickers for preparing illegal drugs for distribution at the street level. Items such as scales, vials, and baggies fall into this category. Drug paraphernalia does not include any items traditionally used with tobacco, like pipes and rolling papers.
What the law says
Under the Federal Drug Paraphernalia Statute, which is part of the Controlled Substances Act, it is illegal to possess, sell, transport, import, or export drug paraphernalia as defined. [b]The law gives specific guidance on determining what constitutes drug paraphernalia.[/b]
Many states have also enacted their own laws prohibiting drug paraphernalia.
Yea, but a bong is just a glass pipe. It it not automatically drug paraphanelia. It could also be used for tobacco, though I dont think anyone does that. It is not drug paraphanelia until it is used for that purpose, which transforms its classification. Originally glass pipes were designed for use with tobacco. So bongs per se are not illegal unless you use them for illegal drugs. However, I have just been told that only those who also deal in tobacco are allowed to sell them. So now that makes sense. Maybe the people who were importing this particular shipment dont fit into that category. I do know that there must be 100 stores in the the city of San Francisco alone that sell them openly. They even display them in the front window. Market street is lined end to end with these shops. So the pipes in and of themselves are not considered drug paraphanelia automatically.
Joined: May 23, 2007 Posts: 4199 Location: california
Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:02 am Post subject:
Judy wrote:
We need to legalize/regulate/tax the illegal drug trade, run it as a legitimate regulated monitored enterprise and re-assign all customs and DEA agents now wasting their time seizing 316,000 colorful Christmas "bongs" to seizing illegal aliens and distributing them back to their home countries, so US citizens can get their jobs back and buy some Christmas presents for their kids in our country.
I agree. It is just so dumb that our borders are being invaded and they are worried about some pipes. Yes those DEA agents could help to protect the borders and fight crime. They are totally trained and most cities are short of cops these days. I am sure the feds could also use them in federal law enforcement....like to fight gangs or whatever. Pipes...omg.
Joined: May 23, 2007 Posts: 4199 Location: california
Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:08 am Post subject:
JohnDoe2 wrote:
If there wasn't a violation of the law they couldn't have seized them.
They can if the person who imported them did not have authorization to do so. I have not verified it yet, but someone told me you have to also be in the business of tobacco sales to be able to import water pipes....to legitimatize the possible use of them. Otherwise it is considered to be meant for drug use. But I still have to check that out to make sure it is true. It makes sense that you would have to be authorized to sell tobacco if you want to sell the pipes that supposedly are used for tobacco. Especiially when they are so often used for drugs. So even though the pipes themselves may not be illegal if used with tobacco, there is still a violation of the law if the person who imported them was not authorized to do so.
Joined: May 23, 2007 Posts: 4199 Location: california
Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:09 am Post subject:
Floorguy wrote:
JohnDoe2 wrote:
redpony353 wrote:
They are suppose to be looking for drugs and illegals.....not bongs. Bongs are not illegal, are they?
Possession, sales and import of drug paraphernalia is illegal.
In Texas it is not, unless it has been used for drug use.
It would have to have resin residue, that tested positive for THC
Yes that is what someone in another forum told me also about California. The drug residue transforms the classification of the pipe to drug paraphanelia.
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