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Joined: Jan 30, 2007 Posts: 5348 Location: South Western Ohio
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject:
Im starting to think its a very good Idea not to support any of them till they get just a little more rope to hang them selves. Some things come out in ways we dont see at first...
I'm reading, just trying to understand more... I have three things I would like answered..
I am reading other sites also, I read on Huckabees site thought that his Immigration plan is:
Note: This plan is partially modeled on a proposal by Mark Krikorian, Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies. ("Re: Immigration: Ten Points for a Successful Presidential Candidate," National Review, May 23, 2005.)
And I noticed that this site has quoted and expounded on Krikrorian and his policies, so why do you call it the Pence Plan? I have read them all, and they all sound the same to me.. none of them call for amnesty, they all call for no benifits for illegals OR those with "guest worker" status.
Second thing, If all of the 'viable' candidates have the same stance on illegal immigration, who do you vote for??
And I'm not voting for/supporting somebody if his stance is great on illegal immigration if the rest of his platform sucks..
Third, if we can't believe what any candidate says, who do you vote for?
I heard Huckabee say something the other day that I thougt was interesting and DOES make sense on ones change of stance/opinion.
(paraphrased) he said that as Governor his decisions were based on what he felt was best for Arkansas, and he realizes that as a President he would do things different because something that was good for Arkansas would not necessarily be good for the country as a whole.
This would be akin to as a burger flipper at Mikey D's, your thought process would be different than that of manager.. just a thought..
BTW, don't get me wrong, I am not in any way shape or form for illegal immigration, I have strongly supported this PAC, I just want to make sure that we do the right thing..
My_2_Cents...
Joined: Apr 05, 2006 Posts: 14 Location: North Carolina
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: Mike Huckabee
In February 2006 I had Bill Gheen come to western NC & speak to the GOP Club. I have introduced resolutions to my County Commissioners to stop illegal immigration on a local level. I have worked with other NC county commissioners in helping put forth resolutions to address illegals. I have been on this issue of illegal immigration for many years including running as a county commission candidate with illegal immigration as one of the four main planks in my platform. I was a candidate for state house in NC also. I am considered "too conservative" by many. I do not think the enemy is in Mike Huckabee's camp. I am not new to politics (helped with Reagan, Jesse Helms, Sue Myrick campaigns). I am not naive, I am a realist. Without the conservative Christian right, a Republican will not be elected. Face it, the only way to stop the open door is with a GOP president (GW Bush excluded). Huckabee's campaign is starting to pull this group back together and over 80% over this group is pro-life, pro-family, pro-national security, does not support illegal immigration, etc. Let us not let good getin the way of perfect. The only perfect candidate for William Gheen is William Gheen. The only perfect candidate for Mason is Mason. I will not compromise my faith/trust in Jesus Christ, the US Constitution or my personal beliefs that are forged by my love of God & country. As a father of nine I have a lot at stake and weigh very carefully what I say and do. We will have much more opportunity for productive discourse with Huckabee or whomever the nominee if we express our deeply held convictions with civility and kindness. There is a time to fight and there is also a time to talk. Right now we should talking to Huckabee. If Huckabee is elected possibly we could get Duncan Hunter as Defense Secretary and Tom Tancredo as Homeland Security. We stand a better chance of pushing those items if we have kept an open door to Huckabee or whoever is the nominee.
As a father of nine I have a lot at stake and weigh very carefully what I say and do
We all have a lot at stake... Our Childrens Futures!!!!
I will NOT vote for someone who wants to give my childrens future and my grandchildrens futures to ILLEGAL ALIENS!!! They are breaking the law by being here! I will no longer vote for the lesser of two evils. I am going to vote for one who is looking out for our children and their children. If that should come down to zero... then there isn't any point in voting at all! The rest of these TRAITORS are all on the same ticket. They just call themselves dems and reps! _________________ Are we going to allow "dirty, crooked politicians" bought and paid for by EVIL men/women to destroy our country...or are AMERICANS GOING TO STAND AS ONE AND TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK?!!!!!!
Joined: May 18, 2007 Posts: 10306 Location: Alipacers Come In All Colors
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject:
Mason I agree civility is needed. However, many of us are sick to death with the civility of "I'll lie to you to get elected, then do what I want." I've talked and talked to my representatives and to the White House and they DON'T LISTEN Mason. They DON'T LISTEN. That's why we have to go with what THEY HAVE DONE not with what they are saying. Words mean nothing to me any more. I will vote according to their past stances and records. PERIOD.
You are also right the the GOP needs the conservative Christian vote. However, conservative Christians may be painted as one issue works for all community. That is not true. I think people have underestimated the Christian community and how they think. Some are gullible to be sure, (e.g. Clinton asking for forgiveness after the Lewinsky situation and going to pastors meetings) Oh yes, we forgive him, blah blah blah. Where was the accountability to some of these pastors. Some of us held the Christian leaders to a larger accountability because of their lack of discernment.
Sorry didn't mean to get into that but YOU did bring it up.
Nonetheless, I'm voting for those who have stood for what I believe this country needs and that is strong borders, our sovereignty, and the rule of law.
Only ones I am even considering is TANCREDO, HUNTER AND PAUL!!!
If LOU DOBBS will run... the he takes my vote!!! or BUCHANAN!!
I am sick of TRAITORS!!! and I am sick of them using their religion... to make it look right! _________________ Are we going to allow "dirty, crooked politicians" bought and paid for by EVIL men/women to destroy our country...or are AMERICANS GOING TO STAND AS ONE AND TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK?!!!!!!
Joined: Apr 05, 2006 Posts: 14 Location: North Carolina
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: Mr. Bill Goes to Iowa
What about Mr. Bill going to Iowa to have a fireside chat with Mike Huckabee? I'll chip in some gas money Grill him on the issues. Educate him on the real costs of this invasion. Who knows what the outcome will be. He may revise his Immigration plan to be more palatable and more inline with ALIPAC's stand.
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Mike Huckabee
Mason wrote:
So just who do you want for President? Unfortunately Duncan Hunter has no chance and neither does Tom Tancredo. The media hates them even more than Huckabee. I agree illegal immigration/national security is the number one issue. At least Huckabee has put something in writing. I believe he will follow what 80% of us want, but not if ALIPAC and her members start attacking him. How about communicating with Huckabee and evaluating his sincerity on this issue and his plan? It's worth a try. If he is willing to put this in writing I would hope he is sincere and wants to do what is best for this country.
You don't need main"scream" media support to succeed. A fired-up blogosphere has twice the political clout of the traditional media. Tancredo has funded two great, hard hitting, targeted TV commercials largely through contributions on his Website. One can feed the other, but doesn't need to depend on the media hacks to make it work.
ppa_founder,
I disagree, one can get a lot of money, and a lot of exposure on the internet, but only for those of us that use it a lot, I would say that out of the people I know only 3 in 10 use the internet to keep informed/follow issues/politics and people tend to be with those that do similar things, so those 7 out of 10 may never get to know a candidate if he is not getting good news coverage, I think in todays market place you have to sell everywhere, or your product won't be bought..
My_2_Cents...
For you Huckabee guys, you are not only on the wrong site, but you are squarely behind a loser
I am not asking Huckabee about anything because I don't trust a man who acts one way as a legislature and even tries to about face during a heated primary.
I have had a bellyful of such hypocrites. Hucks the type of guy who will tell you anything you want to hear, but if you look at his face, everythiing's right up front. He's hiding more than he's telling. IN SHORT HUICKABEE IS LIKE BUSH, HE HAS COMPLETELY LOST HIS CREDABILITY AND HILLARY WOULD BEAT HIM UP BAD IN ANY GENERAL ELECTION. No way Huckabee beats either of the leading Democratic contenders and I don't care how hard he thumps his bible and comes down on Mormons, which is disgusting, even if I am not a Mormon.
I am a diehard Tancredo man to be certain, but as many have already mentioned here, so far he or even Hunter are not even close. So given the rest of the lackluster field, I and the rest of America will go with Mitt Romney. And remember I told you so. He's not the best, but he can win and he's as smart as a whip...... smarter than all the Democrats and most of the Republican contenders put together. This country is in a real mess and could go broke with Bush's "free trade" and "outsourcing" alone, not to mention his rediculous insourcing of cheap illegal labor. We need someone with some business sense in there. Romney's supply side-immigration (the employers will be harshly dealt with) at times isn't enough for me, but if you want to change anything or anyone, then work on Romney. Why? Because he does what he says and he says what he will do. That's a giant step up from Huckabee who is just another big corporation, special interest groups American. That is what his record shows, loud and clear.
Found an organization, USA Wake Up, that doesn't list ALIPAC nor William on it's website so e-mailed them a copy of the letter. Hopefully they will be contacting ALIPAC for further information.
I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.
Abraham Lincoln
I'm reading, just trying to understand more... I have three things I would like answered..
I am reading other sites also, I read on Huckabees site thought that his Immigration plan is:
Note: This plan is partially modeled on a proposal by Mark Krikorian, Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies. ("Re: Immigration: Ten Points for a Successful Presidential Candidate," National Review, May 23, 2005.)
And I noticed that this site has quoted and expounded on Krikrorian and his policies, so why do you call it the Pence Plan? I have read them all, and they all sound the same to me.. none of them call for amnesty, they all call for no benifits for illegals OR those with "guest worker" status.
Second thing, If all of the 'viable' candidates have the same stance on illegal immigration, who do you vote for??
And I'm not voting for/supporting somebody if his stance is great on illegal immigration if the rest of his platform sucks..
Third, if we can't believe what any candidate says, who do you vote for?
I heard Huckabee say something the other day that I thougt was interesting and DOES make sense on ones change of stance/opinion.
(paraphrased) he said that as Governor his decisions were based on what he felt was best for Arkansas, and he realizes that as a President he would do things different because something that was good for Arkansas would not necessarily be good for the country as a whole.
This would be akin to as a burger flipper at Mikey D's, your thought process would be different than that of manager.. just a thought..
BTW, don't get me wrong, I am not in any way shape or form for illegal immigration, I have strongly supported this PAC, I just want to make sure that we do the right thing..
My_2_Cents...
jabwocky,
Yes, he modeled his campaign immigration platform around Mark Krikorian's positions, but then he added Visa Expansions, expedited entry, and the leave and quickly return touch back provision. These items are NOT FROM KRIKORIAN and nullify almost all of Krikorian's suggested enforcement provisions.
This is a trick we saw the Open Borders lobby attempt out of DC earlier this year. They took a bill and filled it with enforcement promises that the elites might or might not enforce and then worked in the dressed up amnesties that remove the need for enforcement against the 12-20 million illegal aliens currently in the US.
They are trying to arrange the game so that their side wins no matter which party you chose after the Primary. Huckabee is their new man up front after McCain and Guilliani hit the illegal immigration wall and their numbers fell.
W _________________ Vox populi vox Dei
Ad majorem Dei gloriam
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Mike Huckabee
Mason wrote:
In February 2006 I had Bill Gheen come to western NC & speak to the GOP Club. I have introduced resolutions to my County Commissioners to stop illegal immigration on a local level. I have worked with other NC county commissioners in helping put forth resolutions to address illegals. I have been on this issue of illegal immigration for many years including running as a county commission candidate with illegal immigration as one of the four main planks in my platform. I was a candidate for state house in NC also. I am considered "too conservative" by many. I do not think the enemy is in Mike Huckabee's camp. I am not new to politics (helped with Reagan, Jesse Helms, Sue Myrick campaigns). I am not naive, I am a realist. Without the conservative Christian right, a Republican will not be elected. Face it, the only way to stop the open door is with a GOP president (GW Bush excluded). Huckabee's campaign is starting to pull this group back together and over 80% over this group is pro-life, pro-family, pro-national security, does not support illegal immigration, etc. Let us not let good getin the way of perfect. The only perfect candidate for William Gheen is William Gheen. The only perfect candidate for Mason is Mason. I will not compromise my faith/trust in Jesus Christ, the US Constitution or my personal beliefs that are forged by my love of God & country. As a father of nine I have a lot at stake and weigh very carefully what I say and do. We will have much more opportunity for productive discourse with Huckabee or whomever the nominee if we express our deeply held convictions with civility and kindness. There is a time to fight and there is also a time to talk. Right now we should talking to Huckabee. If Huckabee is elected possibly we could get Duncan Hunter as Defense Secretary and Tom Tancredo as Homeland Security. We stand a better chance of pushing those items if we have kept an open door to Huckabee or whoever is the nominee.
Mason,
Huckabee's campaign added visa expansions, expedited entry, and the touch back Pence plan that we have seen before earlier this year. Those that were pushing the failed amnesty bills tried to spring this on us before.
If Huckabee is on board with this plan then he is showing that he is willing to trick and decieve the nation. If the illegals line up, sign up, walk out for a few hours or a day, and walk back in saying hey "I'm legal and on the path to citizenship" then they will be VOTERS within a few years and millions of more illegal aliens will be on their way to America because the worst that could happen to them in their eyes one day is someone may charge them a fine and make them skip across the Mexican border one afternoon to pick up their new ID card.
All of your proposed resolutions on the county level will be rendered useless and mute.
All of your illegal aliens in your county will become untouchable by ICE unless they murder someone once they sign up under Huckabee's plan.
All of your illegal aliens will be gone for a day and back to stay.
All of your illegal aliens will vote for elected officials and and proposals in the future that are 180% different than your attempted restrictions and that are in favor of La Raza.
It is unlikely that there will be any chance at a peaceful and political resolution to stop the next wave of millions that will follow with the way paved by the first 20 million anchored in under the Huckabee plan.
W _________________ Vox populi vox Dei
Ad majorem Dei gloriam
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: Mr. Bill Goes to Iowa
Mason wrote:
What about Mr. Bill going to Iowa to have a fireside chat with Mike Huckabee? I'll chip in some gas money Grill him on the issues. Educate him on the real costs of this invasion. Who knows what the outcome will be. He may revise his Immigration plan to be more palatable and more inline with ALIPAC's stand.
I already know who Mike Huckabee is since he said those of us that opposed the Comprehensive Immigration Reform amnesty bills are "driven by racism or nativism"
He was one of only two GOP Candidates at the Univision debates that promised a "path to citizenship" for the illegal aliens.
Why don't you contact them Mason and ask them how fast the illegal aliens will be able to cross back into American territory.
Then you look at every enforcement promise Huckabee is making and ask if any of those provisions would then apply to the former illegal aliens and the answer is NO.
This is not a case of us being picky about small details.
This Huckabee thing is a 1st class Open Borders Lobby con job and if we don't put a stop to it we are screwed and the public will be told they can pick a Dem or Rep and the AMNESTY will still happen.
W _________________ Vox populi vox Dei
Ad majorem Dei gloriam
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:33 am Post subject: DO NOT LET HUCKABEE PULL THE WOOL OVER YOUR EYES
Mason:
You have a point in saying : "Without the conservative Christian right, a Republican will not be elected. Face it, the only way to stop the open door is with a GOP president (GW Bush excluded)."
But that is just the point. I liken Huckabee to George Bush. To me they are both big business Republicans pandering to special interests. And 4 more years of another Bush-like President is something that will wipe the economy of America off this map. Terrorists know our Southern border is open also, just like the rest of the world. They also know that we throw our own US border guards in solitary for shooting at agents out to destroy us.
The conservative Christian right is presently grabbing at straws, and I don't blame them, but they will soon be forced to come down to earth. They know that it takes Independents to win an election and Huckabee is not electable because the more you know about him and his past actions the more you shrink away in disgust.
Wasn't it the conservative christian right who put Bush in and isn't it the conservative christian right who now regrets this as much as anyone else?
In a way, I wish Tancredo would run as an independent, except that that risks fracturing the Republican party right in two and then nobody wins except either Hilary or Obama. It is only through such fracture, in fact that the Republicans will loose.
Mitt Romney is an intelligent, clean man, who aside from Tancredo is as honest as you will get. Lou Dobbs is probably better than the lot of them, but will not run. Romney, a galvanizing man, will win and moreover Romney will be the only candidate that can defeat Hilary (or Obama) in 2008. Romney will be a Democratic nightmare, Huckabee a Democratic dream.
As a father of nine I have a lot at stake and weigh very carefully what I say and do
We all have a lot at stake... Our Childrens Futures!!!!
I will NOT vote for someone who wants to give my childrens future and my grandchildrens futures to ILLEGAL ALIENS!!! They are breaking the law by being here! I will no longer vote for the lesser of two evils. I am going to vote for one who is looking out for our children and their children. If that should come down to zero... then there isn't any point in voting at all! The rest of these TRAITORS are all on the same ticket. They just call themselves dems and reps!
WELL SAID JAK!!!! Great work everyone!!! We are making our voices heard, we will NOT BE IGNORED!!! _________________
Running FULL FORCE AGAINST AMNESTY for ILLEGALS!!!!
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:45 am Post subject: RINO or Liberal?
IT IS BETTER to have a Democrat in the White House (with a Republican Congress) than to have another open-border RINO in the White House in 2008.
Why?
Because it will finally force each party to take two, separate, CLEAR positions on immigration.
The Dem president will shout "Amnesty now!" and almost by instinct, the Republican House/Senate will shout "Enforcement now!" And finally the public will have a choice.
If we allow the McCain-Giuliani crowd to run the GOP, there will continue to be four more years of mass confusion on the issue, the public will not know which party supports illegal aliens, and it will continue to be impossible to create a consensus.
Point in fact, many Californians believe that the Republicans want amnesty and that electing a Democrat would result in border security! Even though everyone there understands that open borders are destroying that state, the politics on this issue have been too confusing for voters living far away from Washington.
So unless we elect Hunter-Dobbs-Tancredo-Thompson, etc., we're in for more of the same. It would be better to have a Dem in the White House.
Perhaps we need to start an "Immigration Pledge" that will keep the ultimate winner on track.
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:52 am Post subject: William and I don't have a horse in this race.
Pat Robertson supports former Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
Jim Gilchrist supports Gov. Mike Huckabee.
William and I don't have a horse in this race.
If I believed in the Global Warming religion (which I oppose), I would be looking for real estate on the Antarctic Peninsula around Jan., 2009. I think I could learn to like an all-fish diet, plus some home-grown vegetables.
God save these United States. _________________ One man's terrorist is another man's undocumented worker.
Unless we enforce laws against illegal aliens today,
tomorrow we may wake up as illegals.
Before the debate, the commentators on Fox let it be
known that Huck had the endorsement of the Minutemen, and after the debate Huck said it himself on the Cavuto show.
This was in answer to Neil asking him about questions on his immigration stance.
Huck just smiled and said he has the endorsement of Jim Gilchrist , founder of the Minuteman Project.
Jim Gilchrist speaks on behalf of Gov. Huckabee only for himself, not for the Minutemen. I know of no other Minuteman who supports Gov. Huckabee. _________________ One man's terrorist is another man's undocumented worker.
Unless we enforce laws against illegal aliens today,
tomorrow we may wake up as illegals.
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I just ordered 20 of these. They will make great stocking stuffers!!!!!
Grill him on the issues. Educate him on the real costs of this invasion. Who knows what the outcome will be. He may revise his Immigration plan to be more palatable and more inline with ALIPAC's stand.
