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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: Feds to Crack Down on Illegal Wire Transfers
Feds to Crack Down on Illegal Wire Transfers
By Sergio Chapa
Tuesday, November 24, 2009 at 8:13 p.m.
Federal authorities are looking at new ways to keep millions of dollars out of the hands of immigrant smugglers.
For years, authorities have documented how criminals exploit Western Union, MoneyGram and other wire transfer services.
The services have extensive networks used to send bill payments or transfers to family members in the United States or overseas.
But U.S. Senator John Cornyn (R-Texas) told Action 4 News that those services are being exploited by human smugglers or drug traffickers to get paid.
Cornyn discussed the issue with several law enforcement agencies at McAllen’s federal courthouse on Tuesday.
Authorities said the families of illegal immigrants often pay human smugglers through wire transfer services.
Cornyn said an illegal immigrant from Mexico may pay $1,000 dollars or more while an illegal immigrant from China may pay up to $40,000.
He said federal law enforcement agencies are now looking at new ways to close loopholes and cut off a pipeline worth millions dollars.
"One of the things I learned here today is how little information that is supplied in these wire transfers…information that should be kept that should be subject to an audit and should be subject to law enforcement investigative subpoenas to investigate these crimes,” Cornyn said at a press conference.
Jerry Robinette with U.S. Immigration & Customs Enforcement said authorities have already started working with several wire transfer companies to weed out criminals.
"It's an industry that we've worked with… very closely with...to find their vulnerabilities, so we can enhance our ability to identify those smuggling organizations that are responsible for the majority of smuggling in South Texas,” he said.
Can we start with the illegal wire transfers that the Muslim countries sent Obama for campaign donations?
They, like him, HATE America and want a jihad.
The money came in in the form of gift cards and sent out in differing amounts so as not to look suspicious.
The program they use is like the ones they use to sell out concert tickets in minutes.
Gift Cards are NOT monitored at all.....
IS ANYONE IMPORTANT READING THIS?
Check into it PLEASE and add it to the list of items we need to Impeach this Illegal alien, Presidential FAKER, POS. _________________ This country needs a leader and not someone that thinks he's an American Idol!
Joined: Jan 05, 2006 Posts: 1146 Location: California
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: Easy answer to all IA problems
The EASY answer to all IA problems.
MAKE THEM PLAY BY OUR RULES, NOT THEIRS.....DUH
Require that all wire transfers go through an audit process.
People requesting a wire transfer must show proof of citizenship! Transferors have to fill out a citizenship form, which get audited by the Feds at RANDOM-no warning!!!
Make ACCOUNTABILITY a requirement for everything! DUH!!!!!!
This WHOLE illegal alien situation could be solved by making THEM play by OUR rules..........
Of course, this all depends on whether Western Union donated to the Obama campaign. If they did, this issue will quietly disappear. _________________ "A Nation of sheep will beget a government of Wolves" -Edward R. Murrow
"He said federal law enforcement agencies are now looking at new ways to close loopholes and cut off a pipeline worth millions dollars."
It's not "millions of dollars". It's Billions of dollars every year. Immigrant remittances through wire transfers amount to $30 billion a year just to Mexico. World-wide it's hundreds of billions of dollars.
Shut them down. Shut them all down. If you aren't a US citizen or Legal Guest, then you can't "wire" anything for any reason OUT of the United States. We'll continue to accept IN payments to US Citizens and Legal Guests, thank you very much.
_________________ "A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation." Ronald Reagan "SAVE AMERICA, DEPORT CONGRESS." Judy
Joined: Jun 17, 2007 Posts: 2572 Location: SW Florida
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject:
A friend works at Lowes and tells me a lot of suspicious maximum amount gift cards are being purchased and thousands of dollars worth of tools with large amounts of cash by hispanics.Lowes is aware but there is little they can do about it.Is it legit, drug money or payment to smugglers ???
I agree TAX money,gift cards or other items purchased in the USA leaving our country is a great idea including at the border.It will make up for the taxes IA's don't pay for their illegal work here..
Joined: Mar 14, 2007 Posts: 3098 Location: Grant Township Mi
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject:
Yeah but this shouldn't have made the news until they were able to pop a bunch of them, to get under La Raza's skin first. Now the word will get out, and other methods will be devised around the current method. _________________
Quit letting them in our country, deport, deport ,deport and enforce the laws, quit feeding us BS. Get these people, arrest them remove them from our country, then close down anyone who hires illegals.
It is no where remotely close to hard as they make it sound.
Quit letting them in our country, deport, deport ,deport and enforce the laws, quit feeding us BS. Get these people, arrest them remove them from our country, then close down anyone who hires illegals.
It is no where remotely close to hard as they make it sound.
I agree 100%. "deport, deport, deport" and if Congress doesn't see that the laws of the US are enforced, then deport Congress in 2010. _________________ "A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation." Ronald Reagan "SAVE AMERICA, DEPORT CONGRESS." Judy
Quit letting them in our country, deport, deport ,deport and enforce the laws, quit feeding us BS. Get these people, arrest them remove them from our country, then close down anyone who hires illegals.
It is no where remotely close to hard as they make it sound.
I agree 100%. "deport, deport, deport" and if Congress doesn't see that the laws of the US are enforced, then deport Congress in 2010.
DEPORT CONGRESS! LOL Judy _________________ This country needs a leader and not someone that thinks he's an American Idol!
Joined: Jan 05, 2007 Posts: 130 Location: The World
Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: Meanwhile. . .
Meanwhile, the politicians and tax collecting bureaucracies of the several 50 states and the federal government are working overtime to design a system to collect sales taxes from yeoman Ebay auctions of your poor ol' grandmother's antique rocking chair.
Quit letting them in our country, deport, deport ,deport and enforce the laws, quit feeding us BS. Get these people, arrest them remove them from our country, then close down anyone who hires illegals.
It is no where remotely close to hard as they make it sound.
I agree 100%. "deport, deport, deport" and if Congress doesn't see that the laws of the US are enforced, then deport Congress in 2010.
DEPORT CONGRESS! LOL Judy
_________________ "A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation." Ronald Reagan "SAVE AMERICA, DEPORT CONGRESS." Judy
Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Meanwhile. . .
JohnPershing wrote:
Meanwhile, the politicians and tax collecting bureaucracies of the several 50 states and the federal government are working overtime to design a system to collect sales taxes from yeoman Ebay auctions of your poor ol' grandmother's antique rocking chair.
We need to cut them off at the pass and pass the FairTax which replaces all existing income-based taxes with a retail sales tax on new products and services. All used items are exempt.
www.fairtax.org _________________ "A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation." Ronald Reagan "SAVE AMERICA, DEPORT CONGRESS." Judy
It's about time. When I was a cashier in high school I had Mexicans come in all the time sending money through Western Union. About five would come in at a time and send money to the same lady in Mexico. It drove me crazy b/c they would only use the Spanish form and in the beginning the form was only in Spanish (no English meanings next to it). So I had to get another form and translate it myself. They used to send right below the amount that required two forms of ID. It pissed me off to no end . _________________ Truth is treason in the empire of lies. -Dr. Ron Paul
Joined: Mar 14, 2007 Posts: 3098 Location: Grant Township Mi
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Meanwhile. . .
Judy wrote:
JohnPershing wrote:
Meanwhile, the politicians and tax collecting bureaucracies of the several 50 states and the federal government are working overtime to design a system to collect sales taxes from yeoman Ebay auctions of your poor ol' grandmother's antique rocking chair.
We need to cut them off at the pass and pass the FairTax which replaces all existing income-based taxes with a retail sales tax on new products and services. All used items are exempt.
Why a fair tax? It will just those clowns in DC and the at the state level a reason to stay big. Do away with all forms of illegal taxation, and go back to real tax bases as the Constitution states, and re-introduce the "Protective Tariff" that Woodrow Wilson removed right after he was elected for his first term. The protective tariff did the most to help build the country, and secure a solid work base for the economy, so that cheap foreign labor could not hurt our fledgling industrial base.
But in the end, the public servants will have to cut spending if and return to careful prudent spending if they wish to keep their jobs.
The reason I say this, is that any tax that affects the people directly like that, that is not apportioned or made uniform throughout the several states, is unConstitutional, and what's to keep them from raising it to 50, 60, or 70%? Look at FDR, he tripled the illegal income tax in the 30's. What was there to stop him? He just wanted more revenue for big government projects. I say leave the people alone in their persons, papers, and wealth. What is yours from your efforts is yours. Not to some low level government stooge with a bad combover to give to someone who would rather sit and watch the tube all day than go out an earn a real living. _________________
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Meanwhile. . .
Hylander_1314 wrote:
Judy wrote:
JohnPershing wrote:
Meanwhile, the politicians and tax collecting bureaucracies of the several 50 states and the federal government are working overtime to design a system to collect sales taxes from yeoman Ebay auctions of your poor ol' grandmother's antique rocking chair.
We need to cut them off at the pass and pass the FairTax which replaces all existing income-based taxes with a retail sales tax on new products and services. All used items are exempt.
Why a fair tax? It will just those clowns in DC and the at the state level a reason to stay big. Do away with all forms of illegal taxation, and go back to real tax bases as the Constitution states, and re-introduce the "Protective Tariff" that Woodrow Wilson removed right after he was elected for his first term. The protective tariff did the most to help build the country, and secure a solid work base for the economy, so that cheap foreign labor could not hurt our fledgling industrial base.
But in the end, the public servants will have to cut spending if and return to careful prudent spending if they wish to keep their jobs.
The reason I say this, is that any tax that affects the people directly like that, that is not apportioned or made uniform throughout the several states, is unConstitutional, and what's to keep them from raising it to 50, 60, or 70%? Look at FDR, he tripled the illegal income tax in the 30's. What was there to stop him? He just wanted more revenue for big government projects. I say leave the people alone in their persons, papers, and wealth. What is yours from your efforts is yours. Not to some low level government stooge with a bad combover to give to someone who would rather sit and watch the tube all day than go out an earn a real living.
No, a voluntary tax on voluntary personal consumption isn't unconstitutional. It's just the retail version of the same concept of excise taxes and tariffs described in the Constitution.
The FairTax is paid by consumers and the people of the United States, on a voluntary basis when you decide on your own free will to purchase new products and services above the family consumption allowance.
The states collect the FairTax as provided for in the Constitution, and the FairTax is as fairly apportioned amongst the states as any founding father could have ever dreamed of, the amount collected and paid by the states to the federal government is based on the number of people and how much they spend in the state. Small poor states will collect less and large rich states will collect more.
Who will stop the government from raising the rates to say 70%? Businesses who are now on our side who want less tax so there is more expendable income available to purchase their products, communities and states who are now our side since they pay the FairTax too on any product or service they sell for money, consumers are on our side to keep the rates low because no one wants to pay more sales tax than what it necessary to run our government in a proper manner.
The Social Security and MediCare portion of the tax may go up some because it's used to fund those trust accounts. But what I expect will happen .. in fact ... I'm quite sure of it ... sales of new products and services will increase due to the increased expendable income because workers and earnings go home with all their earnings and while the FairTax rate is established as a revenue neutral rate, it will actually jump-start the economy and grow it in meaningful terms so there will be more consumption by more people and the revenues in total will increase so I don't see the rates being raised any time soon.
Furthermore, the FairTax will bring millions of people off of poverty which will reduce the amount of government spending on poverty programs. I estimate at least 50% will go off of MediCaid et al, in less than 5 years because of the FairTax and the working people on MediCaid having more income making them ineligible plus many of the unemployed will have jobs will reduces unemployment costs, food stamps, free school lunch program, HUD Housing, etc., etc., etc. We'll reduce the size of government by reducing the amount of poverty and unemployment and increasing net expendable income.
I totally support protected trade tariffs, but not so much to fund government, but to protect our industrial base and American jobs. But unlike back when the founding fathers were doing their math and trade tariffs alone could fund a government, today protected trade tariffs could never be sufficient to fund the federal government. The tariffs can augment some but lets say we have a 25% tariffs on all imported goods, the same tariff rate we have on cars for example that would be imported from China if they wanted to ship some over here.
So at a 25% tariff rate, that would only generate $625 billion a year in revenue and wouldn't even pay the defense bill. If you doubled it to 50%, that's still only $1.25 trillion. If you quadrupled it to 100% tariff rate, that still only generate $2.5 trillion a year which is stil $600 billion short in a good economy and that's only IF consumers were interested in buying products that cost twice as much as they would without the tariff. Most would say no thanks, buy domestic, and now what happens? You have no tax collections and you're back to square one again.
The FairTax acts as a tariff at the final point of sale, it's paid by consumers and citizens, not corporations or businesses, and people don't need to cheat or scheme on their taxes to pay less. If they want to pay less tax, they just tighten up their belts, spend less on new products and services, buy used and save and invest more. Whatever they want works with the FairTax. The less they spend, the more they save and invest and the wealthier they are. The more they spend, the more the economy grows and the more jobs and incomes everyone has. There will be cycles but the people of the United States control those economic cycles under the FairTax. The people are in charge under the FairTax of their own lives, economy and government.
It changes everything in our favor.
As to the size of our government, our government has grown because our populatio has grown. The more people in our country, the more government there is. To reduce the cost of government, we have to stop our population growth, reduce the amount poverty within that population, and tell our businesses .. you're big boys, produce it, earn it, pay for it and leave us alone until you produce a produce or provide a service that interests US and then we'll buy your products and services.
Because reducing the amount of entitlements like MediCaid, SCHIP, unemployment, welfare, food stamps, free school programs, HUD, etc ... what else would you like to cut? These poverty programs presently cost US over $700 billion a year in federal funds plus the state match portions on MediCaid and SCHIP for total of almost $950 billion a year. If we cut that by 50% with job creation and living wages, then we can reduce the cost and size of government by about $475 billion a year and keep working to reduce it even further. But until we do something to create jobs, there's no way to cut these programs, the people will starve to death and be on the street begging like they do in India and that is not fair to them. These people aren't responsible for illegal immigration or free trade that have sucked their jobs and economic opportunities away from them. Sure there's some who play the system but you still can't get them off the programs until you have a job for them, and we tragically don't any jobs for them.
We have to stop illegal immigration, pass the FairTax, protect our trade, end the War on Drugs and lift the bans on oil and gas drilling and THEN, the size and cost of our government will diminish accordingly. We save $70 billion a year on law enforcement by ending the War on Drugs. We save $475 billion reducing poverty programs just by passing the FairTax and Protecting Our Trade. We save another $12 Billion by eliminating the IRS as part of the FairTax. We save $310 billion by stopping illegal immigration and free up another 10 million jobs for American Workers. By ending the War on Drugs, we create several million more new jobs for US citizens growing hemp, marijuana and other products, plus their regulated safe manufacture, distribution and retail sales. We save our money supply .. $700 billion a year by balancing our trade payments through protected trade ... $300 billion a year by ending the War on Drugs and running this trade with Americans instead of foreign drug cartels ... $300 billion a year in interest payments half of it foreign lenders and foregin goverments by reducing our poverty programs, reducing our budget deficits, reducing our national debt. We pass the FairTax and overnight, we've shut down these phony not-for-profit charities because their tax exempt status is now moot. These blood-sucking not-for-profit tax-exempt phony "charities" like National Council of La Raza, MALDEF, Family Research Council, Focus on the Family, ACORN and thousands of other collect $1.3 Trillion a year in tax free revenues, employ 15 million people and own $2 Trillion in non-taxable assets.
See how it all inter-locks? Our country is bankrupt because we didn't as yet stop illegal immigration, pass the FairTax, protect our trade, legalize/regulate/tax the illegal drug trade and drill our own oil and gas reserves.
With the exception to the volume of government expenditures on poverty programs, there really isn't all that much government that we can get rid of. But we CAN reduce our poverty programs by simply creating jobs and make an enormous dent in that cost. We CAN eliminate the IRS. We CAN stop the racist and futile War on Drugs. We CAN stop funding corporation and businesses after we pass the FairTax because they won't need the assistance, they'll have all their money they earned to spend as they wish. We CAN reduce our national debts by paying down the debt with the money we would have spent on poverty programs and eventually get it paid off and as we reduce it, we CAN reduce our interest payments on that debt. We CAN reduce the cost of government subsidized health care like MediCaid and MediCare, but only after you pass the FairTax and force 80% of our hospitals who are 501 C 3 phony "charities" charging patients thousands of dollars a day because the facilities aren't operating as businesses, when they should be. They'll be forced to operate as responsible for-profit businesses, accountable to their investors and their patients like any business. If you screw your investors, they'll fire you. If you screw our patients, they'll sue you. It's very simple. We CAN cut our defense budget by winning these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and bringing our troops home. We won WWII on 2 fronts in less than 4 years against 2 of the mightiest foes we could have ever imagined. Yet we're 8 years in Afghanistan and can't defeat a bunch of rag-tag Talibaners or in Iraq and bunch or religious fanatics scurrying in and out of alley-ways? Come On! We're being hosed, duped, used. But until we do one or the other, win and get out, or cut and run .. there's not a whole lot we can do in the defense department to make cuts without dire consequences.
So, we're a big country with a lot of stuff and that requires a certain size of government to attend to it. Thus, for now, realistic expectations of cutting the size of government rest in cutting the size of poverty. But that we CAN DO, by stopping illegal immigration, passing the FairTax, protecting our trade, legalizing/regulating/taxing the illegal drug trade and drilling our own domestic oil and gas reserves.
That we CAN DO, and that would be an enormous achievement to leave the next generation of Americans. Jobs on the table, money in the bank, control of our government, security at our borders, government reductions through poverty reductions, growth in money supply by reducing free trade payments and international black markets, no more illegal aliens, liberty and prosperity restored ... yes, THIS would be a remarkable achievement for this generation of Americans to leave to the next, and yes, we CAN DO it.
And we don't need to spend the time struggling with new political parties, or new constitutions, or conventions, or anything else. All we have to do is everyone pull together, get on the same page, with the same message, unite as ONE PEOPLE, and tell these CongressCriters you want to stop illegal immigration, pass the FairTax, protect our trade, end the War on Drugs and drill baby drill, and you won't take no for answer.
_________________ "A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation." Ronald Reagan "SAVE AMERICA, DEPORT CONGRESS." Judy
Joined: Mar 14, 2007 Posts: 3098 Location: Grant Township Mi
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:26 am Post subject:
"The FairTax is paid by consumers and the people of the United States, on a voluntary basis when you decide on your own free will to purchase new products and services above the family consumption allowance."
This is too intrusive. Who decides what will be considered above the family allowance?
"The Social Security and MediCare portion of the tax may go up some because it's used to fund those trust accounts."
In reality, there are no "trust accounts" for these entities. The money collected is put directly into the general fund for Congress to spend as they see fit.
"I totally support protected trade tariffs, but not so much to fund government, but to protect our industrial base and American jobs. But unlike back when the founding fathers were doing their math and trade tariffs alone could fund a government, today protected trade tariffs could never be sufficient to fund the federal government. The tariffs can augment some but lets say we have a 25% tariffs on all imported goods, the same tariff rate we have on cars for example that would be imported from China if they wanted to ship some over here. "
The way the Constitution lays out the four ways for the government to collect revenue, "duties, imposts, excises, and direct taxes" (this one must be apportioned among the several states), is more than enough to support the government, as long as they trim the fat. A prime example, when a politician retires, they collect for the rest of their lives their yearly salary at 100%, and if the cost of living goes up, so does their retirement. That's a real "golden parachute". But there are many things that could be cut. And one of them is the welfare system, as it breeds more hands looking for a handout, than those it helps who are in real need, even if for just a temporary time. But the list of government favors and overbloated programs is too long to include here. But about 60% of what government has taken upon itself without the consent of the people, could be cut.
"So at a 25% tariff rate, that would only generate $625 billion a year in revenue and wouldn't even pay the defense bill."
The ammount of money spent on defense is equal to the ammount of "corporate income tax" collected every year. And the corporate income tax is legal since the Supreme Court ruled that income is gain or profit from corporate activity. Wages and earnings are not income. Roads are paid for from the tax collected on gasoline and other petrolium sales. Schools are funded mostly from the collection of property taxes.
"Because reducing the amount of entitlements like MediCaid, SCHIP, unemployment, welfare, food stamps, free school programs, HUD, etc ... what else would you like to cut? These poverty programs presently cost US over $700 billion a year in federal funds plus the state match portions on MediCaid and SCHIP for total of almost $950 billion a year. If we cut that by 50% with job creation and living wages, then we can reduce the cost and size of government by about $475 billion a year and keep working to reduce it even further."
Before big government got involved with all these things, the people in the community took care of their own. There were little things like the "Community Chest", and these worked fine until what happenned in the Great Depression. The Federal Reserve contracted the money supply by close to 60% in something like 4 to 6 years. Now when you contract the money supply like that, you will cause these community run and financed programs to fail. They depended on donations from the local populace. And if people don't have money in their pockets, they can't donate to help the less fortunate. I read some of my grampa's records, and he made about $7.00 a week, when money was backed by gold and silver. He would donate .50 cents a week to charities in the community. By today's standards, that doesn't sound like much, but back then, .50 cents was a good bit of money. Lunch at the diner across from Packard Motor Works was only .20 cents, which he didn't do very often. He had a wife and 3 kids at home.
"Because reducing the amount of entitlements like MediCaid, SCHIP, unemployment, welfare, food stamps, free school programs, HUD, etc ... what else would you like to cut?"
All of them and even more. History has shown time and again that every welfare state eventually becomes a totalitarian state. Russia, Germany of the 1930's, and so on. Now they can't be cut off immediately, but they do need to be scaled back as things shift over. Mainly, because it is like the drug addict who is so addicted, that cold turkey would probably result in death.
"Sure there's some who play the system but you still can't get them off the programs until you have a job for them"
Even when there were jobs to be had, they still "played the system".
"We have to stop illegal immigration, protect our trade, end the War on Drugs and lift the bans on oil and gas drilling and THEN, the size and cost of our government will diminish accordingly"
This I agree with whole heartedly.
"eliminating the IRS"
This can be done by eliminating the illegal income tax on the American citizens. The tax collected goes to paying the international bankers, the interest on the money Congress "borrows" from the Federal Reserve. It never goes to paying the principle because it is a "debt based" monetary system where there is never enough cash in circulation to cover the interest plus the principle. Not one penny goes to the things that people have come to expect from government. It goes directly into the pockets of the international bankers in the form of profits, and not one of them, the American owners, thew Rockefellers, and Margan families pays income taxes. They are the beneficiaries of them. David Rockefeller admitted it.
"Our country is bankrupt because we didn't as yet stop illegal immigration, pass the FairTax, protect our trade, legalize/regulate/tax the illegal drug trade and drill our own oil and gas reserves".
Our country is bankrupt because of our wealth (gold and silver) being swindled from us by the Central Bank and it's owners. 1933 FDR confiscates the American peoples gold. Then makes it illegal for American to own gold, with a fine of $10,000.00 and up to 10 years in the Federal Pen. Look up Congressman Louis T. McFadden. He was the head of the House Banking and Currency Commitee from 1920 to 1931. http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/mcfadden.html
The honorable Congressman tried to expose the fact that 30,000,000 in gold was shipped to Germany an was used to put Hitler in power. Jacob Schiff, on his deathbed, gloated how he financed Lenin and Trotsky in the Russian Revolution. Mr. Schiff was another international financier. This was done, because during the Civil War, England placed troops on the border with Canada, and France under Napoleon III, placed troops on the border with Mexico. Both in violation of the Monroe doctrine. Now Czar Alexander of Russia knew that if America fell to Britain and France, it wouldn't be too long before Russia would fall to the bankers since Russia was the last European country to hold against these financiers. So to help Russia, he sent the Russian Pacific Fleet to San Fansisco, and made it known that if France and England attacked America, he the Czar of Russia would consider it an attack on his country. Well the Russian Revolution shows the financiers never forgave the Czar and his family. Then in 1968 Lyndon Johnson takes us off silver. No more silver certificates. Followed in 1971 by Nixon removing us completely from the gold standard by seperating the dollar from gold internationally.
"We won WWII on 2 fronts in less than 4 years against 2 of the mightiest foes we could have ever imagined."
That's because we weren't getting the s**t blown out of our industry. By July 1943 American industry was producing more than Germany, Italy, Japan, our foes, and our tentative ally Russia combined. But Germany was already losing on the eastern front by the time Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. The Russian winter with the lack of proper winter clothing took a heavier toll on German troops than the Russian counter attacks.
"We CAN cut our defense budget by winning these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and bringing our troops home"
Read John Perkins, Confessions of an Economic Hitman. He talks in great detail about Iraq. And if memory serves correct he made a comment that after our troops went into Afganistan, the production of opium poppies went up 90% in about a year. We aren't the cops of the world. This is imperialistic empire buiding.
"We CAN stop funding corporation and businesses"
Actually, by purchasing the things they produce is still funding them. (Not meant as a smarta**ed remark. Honestly)
"But that we CAN DO, by stopping illegal immigration, protecting our trade, legalizing/regulating/taxing the illegal drug trade and drilling our own domestic oil and gas reserves."
Also add to it, restore the States to their rightful autonomy and power, and neuter the Federal Government like it was before 1936.
"That we CAN DO, and that would be an enormous achievement to leave the next generation of Americans. Jobs on the table, money in the bank, control of our government, security at our borders, government reductions through poverty reductions, growth in money supply by reducing free trade payments and international black markets, no more illegal aliens, liberty and prosperity restored ... yes, THIS would be a remarkable achievement for this generation of Americans to leave to the next, and yes, we CAN DO it."
Again, until we have sound banking again, and real money in the form of gold and silver coin as the Constitution demands, there won't be any money in the bank, only the ghost of money, to coin a phrase from Thomas Jefferson.
"And we don't need to spend the time struggling with new political parties, or new constitutions, or conventions, or anything else. All we have to do is everyone pull together, get on the same page, with the same message, unite as ONE PEOPLE, and tell these CongressCriters you want to stop illegal immigration, pass the FairTax, protect our trade, end the War on Drugs and drill baby drill, and you won't take no for answer."
Nope, no new Constitutions or Constitutional Conventions. A restoration of the policies, and regulations in that Constitution, where no man or entity of man is above the Supreme Law of the Land. What most folks don't mention about the Constitution is the "supremacy clause", where any legislation of Congress, any Executive Order, and any rulings of the Supreme Court or any lower court that is inconsistant with the Constitution, those things that are not in line with it are to be treated as null and void, and the Constitution is to be sought for the answer.
As Far as new parties, I think the Demopublicans and Republicrats have torqued so many people off that they aren't trusted anymore. That's why the "grassroots" organizations are getting bigger. People are looking for a place to go to find some way to try and fix the problem. But you are correct, we need to be on the same page. Everybody needs to know our founding documents. They aren't that long to read. Nor are they hard to understand. A few words in them may need to be looked up in the dictionary to understand them. But unless the people of these united States understand their principle foundations, then there is little hope in restoring our Constitutional Republic, and the law and order that goes with it. And the morals and fortitutde to be Americans again in real Liberty.
Please Judy, don't take any of this personally. I am enjoying the discussion and a real good exchange. Mainly up to about 15 years ago, I thought the same way, but I was called a nutjob, and a kook. Shunned from friends and family, as I was making too many waves, and nobody wanted to hear it. Funny thing is, those same people now call and tell me, "I wish we would have listened to you back then".
It's been my pleasure to engage in conversation, but it's late and I'm about to fall asleep.
And something to recommend for you to read would be Adam Smith / The Wealth of Nations. _________________
"The FairTax is paid by consumers and the people of the United States, on a voluntary basis when you decide on your own free will to purchase new products and services above the family consumption allowance."
This is too intrusive. Who decides what will be considered above the family allowance?
"The Social Security and MediCare portion of the tax may go up some because it's used to fund those trust accounts."
In reality, there are no "trust accounts" for these entities. The money collected is put directly into the general fund for Congress to spend as they see fit.
"I totally support protected trade tariffs, but not so much to fund government, but to protect our industrial base and American jobs. But unlike back when the founding fathers were doing their math and trade tariffs alone could fund a government, today protected trade tariffs could never be sufficient to fund the federal government. The tariffs can augment some but lets say we have a 25% tariffs on all imported goods, the same tariff rate we have on cars for example that would be imported from China if they wanted to ship some over here. "
The way the Constitution lays out the four ways for the government to collect revenue, "duties, imposts, excises, and direct taxes" (this one must be apportioned among the several states), is more than enough to support the government, as long as they trim the fat. A prime example, when a politician retires, they collect for the rest of their lives their yearly salary at 100%, and if the cost of living goes up, so does their retirement. That's a real "golden parachute". But there are many things that could be cut. And one of them is the welfare system, as it breeds more hands looking for a handout, than those it helps who are in real need, even if for just a temporary time. But the list of government favors and overbloated programs is too long to include here. But about 60% of what government has taken upon itself without the consent of the people, could be cut.
"So at a 25% tariff rate, that would only generate $625 billion a year in revenue and wouldn't even pay the defense bill."
The ammount of money spent on defense is equal to the ammount of "corporate income tax" collected every year. And the corporate income tax is legal since the Supreme Court ruled that income is gain or profit from corporate activity. Wages and earnings are not income. Roads are paid for from the tax collected on gasoline and other petrolium sales. Schools are funded mostly from the collection of property taxes.
"Because reducing the amount of entitlements like MediCaid, SCHIP, unemployment, welfare, food stamps, free school programs, HUD, etc ... what else would you like to cut? These poverty programs presently cost US over $700 billion a year in federal funds plus the state match portions on MediCaid and SCHIP for total of almost $950 billion a year. If we cut that by 50% with job creation and living wages, then we can reduce the cost and size of government by about $475 billion a year and keep working to reduce it even further."
Before big government got involved with all these things, the people in the community took care of their own. There were little things like the "Community Chest", and these worked fine until what happenned in the Great Depression. The Federal Reserve contracted the money supply by close to 60% in something like 4 to 6 years. Now when you contract the money supply like that, you will cause these community run and financed programs to fail. They depended on donations from the local populace. And if people don't have money in their pockets, they can't donate to help the less fortunate. I read some of my grampa's records, and he made about $7.00 a week, when money was backed by gold and silver. He would donate .50 cents a week to charities in the community. By today's standards, that doesn't sound like much, but back then, .50 cents was a good bit of money. Lunch at the diner across from Packard Motor Works was only .20 cents, which he didn't do very often. He had a wife and 3 kids at home.
"Because reducing the amount of entitlements like MediCaid, SCHIP, unemployment, welfare, food stamps, free school programs, HUD, etc ... what else would you like to cut?"
All of them and even more. History has shown time and again that every welfare state eventually becomes a totalitarian state. Russia, Germany of the 1930's, and so on. Now they can't be cut off immediately, but they do need to be scaled back as things shift over. Mainly, because it is like the drug addict who is so addicted, that cold turkey would probably result in death.
"Sure there's some who play the system but you still can't get them off the programs until you have a job for them"
Even when there were jobs to be had, they still "played the system".
"We have to stop illegal immigration, protect our trade, end the War on Drugs and lift the bans on oil and gas drilling and THEN, the size and cost of our government will diminish accordingly"
This I agree with whole heartedly.
"eliminating the IRS"
This can be done by eliminating the illegal income tax on the American citizens. The tax collected goes to paying the international bankers, the interest on the money Congress "borrows" from the Federal Reserve. It never goes to paying the principle because it is a "debt based" monetary system where there is never enough cash in circulation to cover the interest plus the principle. Not one penny goes to the things that people have come to expect from government. It goes directly into the pockets of the international bankers in the form of profits, and not one of them, the American owners, thew Rockefellers, and Margan families pays income taxes. They are the beneficiaries of them. David Rockefeller admitted it.
"Our country is bankrupt because we didn't as yet stop illegal immigration, pass the FairTax, protect our trade, legalize/regulate/tax the illegal drug trade and drill our own oil and gas reserves".
Our country is bankrupt because of our wealth (gold and silver) being swindled from us by the Central Bank and it's owners. 1933 FDR confiscates the American peoples gold. Then makes it illegal for American to own gold, with a fine of $10,000.00 and up to 10 years in the Federal Pen. Look up Congressman Louis T. McFadden. He was the head of the House Banking and Currency Commitee from 1920 to 1931. http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/mcfadden.html
The honorable Congressman tried to expose the fact that 30,000,000 in gold was shipped to Germany an was used to put Hitler in power. Jacob Schiff, on his deathbed, gloated how he financed Lenin and Trotsky in the Russian Revolution. Mr. Schiff was another international financier. This was done, because during the Civil War, England placed troops on the border with Canada, and France under Napoleon III, placed troops on the border with Mexico. Both in violation of the Monroe doctrine. Now Czar Alexander of Russia knew that if America fell to Britain and France, it wouldn't be too long before Russia would fall to the bankers since Russia was the last European country to hold against these financiers. So to help Russia, he sent the Russian Pacific Fleet to San Fansisco, and made it known that if France and England attacked America, he the Czar of Russia would consider it an attack on his country. Well the Russian Revolution shows the financiers never forgave the Czar and his family. Then in 1968 Lyndon Johnson takes us off silver. No more silver certificates. Followed in 1971 by Nixon removing us completely from the gold standard by seperating the dollar from gold internationally.
"We won WWII on 2 fronts in less than 4 years against 2 of the mightiest foes we could have ever imagined."
That's because we weren't getting the s**t blown out of our industry. By July 1943 American industry was producing more than Germany, Italy, Japan, our foes, and our tentative ally Russia combined. But Germany was already losing on the eastern front by the time Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. The Russian winter with the lack of proper winter clothing took a heavier toll on German troops than the Russian counter attacks.
"We CAN cut our defense budget by winning these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and bringing our troops home"
Read John Perkins, Confessions of an Economic Hitman. He talks in great detail about Iraq. And if memory serves correct he made a comment that after our troops went into Afganistan, the production of opium poppies went up 90% in about a year. We aren't the cops of the world. This is imperialistic empire buiding.
"We CAN stop funding corporation and businesses"
Actually, by purchasing the things they produce is still funding them. (Not meant as a smarta**ed remark. Honestly)
"But that we CAN DO, by stopping illegal immigration, protecting our trade, legalizing/regulating/taxing the illegal drug trade and drilling our own domestic oil and gas reserves."
Also add to it, restore the States to their rightful autonomy and power, and neuter the Federal Government like it was before 1936.
"That we CAN DO, and that would be an enormous achievement to leave the next generation of Americans. Jobs on the table, money in the bank, control of our government, security at our borders, government reductions through poverty reductions, growth in money supply by reducing free trade payments and international black markets, no more illegal aliens, liberty and prosperity restored ... yes, THIS would be a remarkable achievement for this generation of Americans to leave to the next, and yes, we CAN DO it."
Again, until we have sound banking again, and real money in the form of gold and silver coin as the Constitution demands, there won't be any money in the bank, only the ghost of money, to coin a phrase from Thomas Jefferson.
"And we don't need to spend the time struggling with new political parties, or new constitutions, or conventions, or anything else. All we have to do is everyone pull together, get on the same page, with the same message, unite as ONE PEOPLE, and tell these CongressCriters you want to stop illegal immigration, pass the FairTax, protect our trade, end the War on Drugs and drill baby drill, and you won't take no for answer."
Nope, no new Constitutions or Constitutional Conventions. A restoration of the policies, and regulations in that Constitution, where no man or entity of man is above the Supreme Law of the Land. What most folks don't mention about the Constitution is the "supremacy clause", where any legislation of Congress, any Executive Order, and any rulings of the Supreme Court or any lower court that is inconsistant with the Constitution, those things that are not in line with it are to be treated as null and void, and the Constitution is to be sought for the answer.
As Far as new parties, I think the Demopublicans and Republicrats have torqued so many people off that they aren't trusted anymore. That's why the "grassroots" organizations are getting bigger. People are looking for a place to go to find some way to try and fix the problem. But you are correct, we need to be on the same page. Everybody needs to know our founding documents. They aren't that long to read. Nor are they hard to understand. A few words in them may need to be looked up in the dictionary to understand them. But unless the people of these united States understand their principle foundations, then there is little hope in restoring our Constitutional Republic, and the law and order that goes with it. And the morals and fortitutde to be Americans again in real Liberty.
Please Judy, don't take any of this personally. I am enjoying the discussion and a real good exchange. Mainly up to about 15 years ago, I thought the same way, but I was called a nutjob, and a kook. Shunned from friends and family, as I was making too many waves, and nobody wanted to hear it. Funny thing is, those same people now call and tell me, "I wish we would have listened to you back then".
It's been my pleasure to engage in conversation, but it's late and I'm about to fall asleep.
And something to recommend for you to read would be Adam Smith / The Wealth of Nations.
Oh no, the FairTax is not intrusive at all. It's all predetermined by the official Family Consumption Allowance. Under the FairTax, every US citizen and Legal Resident household (illegal aliens need not apply, they're excluded), may at their option sign up for the FairTax Rebate which is very simple. It's based on the number of adults and children in the household, that's it. If you are married and have 2 kids, then you are a couple with 2 kids and are eligible for the monthly sum of $199 x 2 adults and $70 x 2 children or $527 a month or $6,440 a year to pay FairTaxes on purchases up to the Family Consumption Allowance for a family of 4 with 2 adults and 2 kids. This is how they exempt essentials from taxation without any intrusion or book-keeping or turning in receipts, etc. Social Security handles the Rebates. You don't have to document your spending, you are automatically entitled to it by filling out a simple form that lists the names and social security numbers of the members of your household. You can request the payments monthly on a SmartCard or have them deposited directly into your bank account or receive it by check in the mail, your option. You then use this money to pay the FairTaxes on your expenditures on new products and services for the month and the amount covers what the Family Consumption Allowance provides. Or if you don't spend up to the limit that the Rebate was calculated on, then you can save it and spend it later or do whatever you want to with it. It's your money.
A national retail sales tax like the FairTax is an indirect tax and totally constitutional, no different than an excise tax, sales tax, tariff or value added tax. It's a tax on a transaction. A direct tax is an income tax and unconstitutional, which is why the 16th Amendment was required to collect it.
Hylander, we don't want our corporations paying tax. We want them to be out of the tax business, we don't want them spending fortunes on tax lawyers and tax accountants filing income tax returns. They also don't pay $625 billion a year in corporate income tax. All our corporations only pay $339 billion a year in corporate income tax, still a princely sum, that is just passed on to consumers with a mark-up.
We the people of the United States want to pay the taxes, we want to fund our government, we want to hold the purse-strings on our government, we want our government accountable to us, not our corporations. I mean you're free to want to keep our corporations in bed with our politicians, but not I, my friend, not I. When those bureaucrats and snake-eyed politicians are scanning the room to figure out who to scam for their next pork barrel, ear-mark or boondoggle, I don't want them going to the US Chamber of Commerce or the National Association of Manufacturers or the National Federation of Independent Businesses asking for more money, I want them knocking on my citizen door, looking square into my eyes at a town meeting and explaining to me a) how much they want and b) what they're doing to do with it so I can burst out laughing and tell them to go frisk themselves and add calmly, "oh by the way, you're fired for even asking such a stupid question."
As to the constitutionality of the FairTax, there is no question that both by the type of tax that it is, a retail national sales tax on new products and services, not used or existing products, as well as by how it is collected, which is by the Retail Collectors, the businesses who sell you the new product or service who remit to the states for a fee who then remit to the Federal Government for a fee, the FairTax is constitutional.
It is also voluntary, instead of mandatory. You only pay the tax when you choose to spend above the Famiy Consumption Allowance on new products and services. It's up to you how much you spend, when you spend, what you choose to buy, a new house or a used house, a new car or a used car, what you choose to save, invest or give to others.
You need to study the Federal Budget, Hylander, which is broken down nicely here for you so you better understand our actual receipts and expenditures.
Citizens of the US already pay 4 x what is collected from corporations in personal income taxes, and then we pay the corporate income taxes and their share of our payroll taxes when we purchase their products and services. So consumers are paying all the taxes now. We're just paying them in multiple ways, with mark-ups. The FairTax streamlines all that into 1 tax, at 1 rate, collected 1 time on a new product or service at the final point of sale, that requires no paperwork, no record-keeping, no time, no returns, no accountants, no tax preparers, no worries, no deadlines, no mandates, no reporting, no intrusion, no obligations, no fines, no penalties, no liens, no threats, no interest, no lawyers, no jail. Americans are free under the FairTax, while having absolute financial control over their wages, earnings, savings, interest, dividends, assets, gifts, estates and ... federal government.
Retail Tax Collectors, the retail businesses who sell new products or services, are the only ones who collect the FairTax, it's very simple. They collect 23% inclusive which means if you pay them $100, they take 23% of the $100 and set it aside to be forwarded to the state in FairTaxes. The Retailers are paid a fee for their brief time and effort, which is comprised of collecting the money, reporting it on their existing state sales tax form and sending it in less their fee which is 1/4 of 1% of their collections or the greater of 1/4 of 1% or $200 not to exceed 20% of the tax due. The states also receive a fee for their services which is also 1/4 of 1%. There's no new forms, just the state sales tax form with 1 new line added.
It's truly beautiful. For a family of 4 who earns between $50,000 and $60,000 a year, the FairTax is worth over $16,000 in new net expendable income assuming they sign up for the Monthly Rebate.
Our companies are streamlined, relieved of this horrible tax burden, our citizens and legal residents are relived of theirs and they pay only when they choose to go shopping or sign up for services of one kind or another.
Also, Hylander, there are trust funds for Social Security and MediCare. When these payroll and employer funds are paid, they are immediately invested by the Social Security Administration in special interest bearing notes and sold on the market so the funds earn interest constantly until they are used to pay benefits to the recipients.
The same is true with the Social Security and MediCare portion of the FairTax. By law the 8.09% is ear-marked and dedicated to Social Security and MediCare Funds while the balance of the rate of 14.91 is dedicated to General Revenue to run the US government.
It's a great well-thought out tax collection system, the best I've ever seen, and I've studied different plans in detail for years.
On wealth, the wealth of our nation is based on the wealth determined by the amount of recurring income and net worth of our citizens. I understand the pre-occupation with a gold standard. It makes people comfortable to think there's shining gold bricks in a bank somewhere "backing" everything. But in reality, that's a side-track, a diversion. Under our present system, the wealth of our citizens which is all that matters is determined by wages, benefits, earnings, assets, dividends, interest, savings, investments, retirement accounts and pension income less their debt. Having gold bars hidden somewhere under lock and key in the Federal Reserve somewhere or not, doesn't change that. I have no opinion one way or the other on the gold standard. if people want it back, fine. If they want to leave it like it is, that's fine with me, too.
As to the Federal Reserve, they need to a full-scale audit and investigation after which we can determine if the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 needs to be repealed. I'm of the mind that it does, because Republicans opposed it vehemently just as they opposed the Federal Revenue Act of 1913, and they were right about the income tax and I suspect they were right about the Federal Reserve as well. But again, that's a diversion at this time, a side-track.
There are two ways to consider a healthy economy. One is by the health of your money supply. Under this way, we are broke. By now, we have sent almost all of our money out of the country in the name of "Free Trade", which is why the Government has to constantly print new money to replace what we gave away. Another way to consider a healthy economy is by the GDP, the production components of our economy. By this method, we are broke as well, importing more than we export. As of 3 years ago, we are importing more food than we export, while Americans merrily continue to believe that we are the "bread basket to the world", when we aren't even producing enough food to feed ourselves. We have a bankrupt economy by both of these measures and any other measure anyone wishes to devise. We have to rebuild our economy virtually from the ground up while at the same time meeting national debt obligations that exceed our ability to ever repay them without drastic changes in the way we do business.
How do you jump start a production based economy? You produce. There is no way under any scenario to sustain the US economy without rebuilding our industrial base. There is no way to protect the small industrial base we have left, let alone rebuild it without employing immediate protected trade policies and providing a business climate that brings our industries home where they belong.
You can not tax our corporations and expect to bring them home because that is one of the primary reasons they left to begin with. You have to completely de-tax our corporations to bring them home and keep them here. You also can not bring our corporation home without being able to show them that Americans have buying power which means we need the FairTax immediately to increase that buying power, by increasing net expandable income without raising wages or increasing costs to our companies. The FairTax does this as I've explained above. Once our corporations are tax-free and their customers have more expendable income, they will not only rush home, they will want protected trade policies to protect their own customer base and market share from foreign competition.
If they want to play Globalism over there. God Bless Them. Have at it. We don't care! We're thrilled to think of Walmart providing their services around the globe. They just won't be able to play it here because while we're giving them the best business climate in the world and the best consumer base in world history, we're going to repeal Free Trade and re-impose tariffs and even quota restrictions on certain products as well to keep them here and protect their businesses so we can protect our jobs, investments, technologies and infrastructures. We're also going to shut out the rest of the world from 1 dime of government contracts, not even 1 cent of US taxpayer money will be paid to a non-US company, unless in the rare and most unusual of situations, there is no US bidder, in which case and provided we still want or need whatever product or service it is that's going out for bid, then a special procedure well-publicized and scrutinized will be established for these rare and unusual events.
You're a Constitutionalist, Hylander, and that's great! But for some reason you guys don't understand how the FairTax works and thus reject it erroneously. You need to ask questions so we can break through this problem and become ONE on the key to saving our economy which starts with the FairTax. So, tomorrow after you've had a good rest, lets get through the FairTax so you guys understand its value and why so many of US support it. It's not because we don't understand the Constitution, most of US understand the Constitution all too well, and there is just no conflict at all between the FairTax and our Founding Documents. None whatsoever, so lets work on that tomorrow, okay?
Finally on the welfare state, there is no way to end our welfare state until we fix the economy and have jobs that pay sustainable wages. The welfare state will decline and virtually end in natural course as we stop illegal immigration, pass the FairTax, protect our trade, end the War on Drugs and lift the ban on oil and gas drilling. No one wants to be on welfare. It is not a good or happy life. The people are trapped with the impossible choice of a) no job and starvation b) a job that won't sustain them or c) and continuing a miserable existence on welfare. You can't take 62 million people to the middle of the Sahara Desert with a fishing pole, teach them to fish and expect them to catch any. You have to take them some place where there are some fish, then teach them to fish, and you can not only expect them to catch some fish, they will catch some fish, and your work is finished because they can fend for themselves. It's no different with ending welfare. You can't cut off welfare and tell them to go get a job when you know there aren't any jobs for them which is why they're on welfare to begin with. You have to bring the jobs back and THEN tell them, go get a job and give them the list of where the jobs are, they'll go and be hired, and then your work is finished, and they can fend for themselves.
I, too, have enjoyed this dialogue. Until tomorrow.
Good Night.
Judy
www.fairtax.org _________________ "A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation." Ronald Reagan "SAVE AMERICA, DEPORT CONGRESS." Judy
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