Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

  1. #1
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    PARADISE (San Diego)
    Posts
    99,040

    2 Cops Killed by 'Sovereigns" Who Shun U.S. Laws

    Deadly Arkansas Shooting By 'Sovereigns' Jerry and Joe Kane Who Shun U.S. Law

    Father and Son Shoot Police During Routine Traffic Stop, Killing Two Officers

    By DAN HARRIS
    July 1, 2010

    A routine traffic stop in Arkansas turned into an extraordinarily violent shooting between police and a father-son pair of so-called "sovereign citizens" six weeks ago, shedding light on a secretive and dangerous subculture which believes American laws don't apply to them.

    A man and his teenage son appear to have gone on a rampage against authority.

    When police stopped a white minivan in West Memphis, Ark., on May 20, they had no idea that it would set off a chain of events that would result in the deaths of two officers as well as Jerry Kane and his 16-year-old son Joseph.

    Watch 'World News' for more on this story tonight on ABC.

    Both Kanes were deeply immersed in the the anti-government movement known as "sovereign citizens," estimated to number in the hundreds of thousands across the country. Sovereigns frequently have run-ins with the law, and this time the confrontation proved deadly.

    Video released by West Memphis authorities shows the graphic detail. As the officers questioned Jerry Kane, his son Joe suddenly leaped out of the minivan and opened fire on the officers with an AK-47 assault rifle.
    Moments later, the father and son got back into the vehicle and drove off, with Joe still firing his rifle.

    Two Officers Killed in Shooting

    When first responders arrived, they found the two officers dead -- one in the street and the other in a ditch by the side of the road, shot in the head.

    "Oh my f***ing God," said one officer on radio chatter as he drove up to the scene.

    The word quickly went out on the radio to look for a white minivan, and more than an hour later, the Kanes' vehicle was spotted and surrounded in a Wal-Mart parking lot.

    As the Kanes tried to escape, a fish and wildlife officer rammed his truck into their vehicle.

    The Kanes began shooting at authorities again, firing at the wildlife officer's cab at close range. Incredibly, he was unharmed, but both Jerry and Joe Kane died in the ensuing gun battle.

    "Officers did what they could to save the lives of their fellow officers and themselves, and you know, it has not been a difficult call for this office to say that this was a justified shoot," said Mike Walden, the prosecuting attorney for the second judicial district in Arkansas.

    Shooters Were Allegedly Part of Sovereign Citizen Movement
    According to organizations that monitor hate groups, the Arkansas incident is a rare window into the world of sovereign citizens.

    The movement has been around for decades and has included some notable cases of violence in the past. Terry Nichols of the Oklahoma City bombing was a sovereign citizen, and Joe Stack, who flew his small plane into the IRS building in Austin, Texas. in February, was also affiliated with the movement.

    J.J. MacNab, a financial consultant who has been investigating sovereign citizens for years by creating fake online identities, is writing a book on their insular underworld.

    "It's like a cult. These people truly believe they are right," she said.
    MacNab said it's a loose, unstructured movement of mostly white, middle-aged men. Their philosophy is based on cobbled-together pieces of information from the Constitution, the Bible, commercial law and even admiralty law.

    "They put them together and they form a vast concept that they don't have to pay taxes or pay debt," added MacNab.
    FBI Calls Group a Terror Threat

    The FBI lists sovereign citizens as a domestic terror threat, saying they've been responsible for such crimes as murder, threatening judges, using fake currency and engaging in scams to convince people that they don't have to pay taxes or mortgages.

    Both Jerry Kane and his son Joseph were involved in such schemes, peddling their message in seminars across the country. Videos of Kane posted on YouTube show him dressed in a white suit jacket with a closely-cropped, military-style haircut, instructing a group of people in ways to fight off banks and lawyers.

    "I look at the legal term not the slang," Kane says on one video, urging his audience to look at the roots of legal language to reveal hidden meaning.

    Inside the World of Sovereign Citizens
    In recent weeks, ABC News has called dozens of sovereign citizens to ask for interviews and repeatedly been told no. But Brent Johnson, a sovereign citizen who hosts a radio show on the subject, agreed to answer questions and explain the group's ideas.

    "I call myself a modern day freedom fighter," said Johnson. "You're the ruler, the master in your life."

    Johnson said that people don't need Social Security numbers, driver's licenses, hunting licenses or wedding licenses, but that doesn't make sovereigns dangerous.

    "You can find any organization, any group, any movement and there are dangerous people in that movement," said Johnson. "But I'm not one of them. I'm not a danger to anyone, except those who don't wish to have the truth exposed."

    Observers say that the group is now growing, fueled by the Internet, the recession and anger at the current administration. There is also growing fear that the potential for violence is on the rise. Already, some sovereigns are calling Jerry and Joe Kane "heroes."

    http://www.newsrunner.com/display-artic ... +Shuns+Law
    NO AMNESTY

    Don't reward the criminal actions of millions of illegal aliens by giving them citizenship.


    Sign in and post comments here.

    Please support our fight against illegal immigration by joining ALIPAC's email alerts here https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  2. #2
    GoodVibrations's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    258
    I know that this sounds crazy, but I want to hear their side before I pass any judgment.

    Gov. has for years tried to create a "crazy" out there group to chastise to keep all the rest of the sheeples running in the opposite direction to be controlled. The Oklahoma City bomber is a prime example. I wouldn't be surprised if this is really just a sham to keep everyone else in line. The real growing groups are the "independents" and "tea party" folks. These growing groups have the gov. shaking in the boot straps. So they want those resistors to the New World Order classifed as "crazy" and "violent".

    They also want to scare us from ourselves so we all don't unite too much.

    I wouldn't be surprised if these sovereigns are on the gov. payroll. About 2 years ago they started massively employing people for jobs.

    With all the government has done in the last 40 years, they fear an overthrow the most, so they want to keep the resistance down.

    Just my theory....not much news I believe anymore.

  3. #3
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    PARADISE (San Diego)
    Posts
    99,040
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodVibrations
    I wouldn't be surprised if these sovereigns are on the gov. payroll. About 2 years ago they started massively employing people for jobs.
    These two 'Sovereigns' are dead.

    The Sovereign Citizens movement started many years ago.
    NO AMNESTY

    Don't reward the criminal actions of millions of illegal aliens by giving them citizenship.


    Sign in and post comments here.

    Please support our fight against illegal immigration by joining ALIPAC's email alerts here https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  4. #4
    Senior Member uniteasone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    north carolina
    Posts
    4,638
    I would have to agree goodvibrations. I still say there was more to the Oklahoma City Bomber, Timothy McVeigh.

    Remember Ruby Ridge and WAco Texas!

    Our present government administration as well as some of the past administrations , have pushed the American people and keep pushing.
    The FBI lists sovereign citizens as a domestic terror threat, saying they've been responsible for such crimes as murder, threatening judges, using fake currency and engaging in scams to convince people that they don't have to pay taxes or mortgages.
    So they will go after these people BUT WILL NOT go after ILLEGAL ALIENS that commit some of the same crimes and more.
    "When you have knowledge,you have a responsibility to do better"_ Paula Johnson

    "I did then what I knew to do. When I knew better,I did better"_ Maya Angelou

  5. #5
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    PARADISE (San Diego)
    Posts
    99,040
    Redemption movement
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The redemption theory is an American conspiracy theory created by Roger Elvick and marketed as a tax evasion and fraud scheme. The theory claims that when the United States government abandoned the gold standard in 1933, it pledged its citizens as collateral so it could borrow money.

    According to Elvick, the government creates a fictitious person (straw man) corresponding to each newborn citizen with bank accounts initially holding $630,000. The theory further holds that through obscure procedures under the Uniform Commercial Code, a citizen can "reclaim" the straw man and write checks against its accounts.[1] Its adherents and various fellow travelers sometimes call themselves "Sovereign Citizens".

    [edit] Theory
    The redemption movement is based upon a complicated theory that consists of several elements. Purveyors of the myth claim that debts can be eliminated by filing a UCC-1 financing statement through the Uniform Commercial Code. They hold that an inalienable right is an "in-a-lien-able" right, having some relation to liens. They claim that birth certificates are negotiable instruments, behind which is a $1,000,000 bond that is pre-paid financing on any activity of the straw man, and that the man or woman, by means of his or her first lien, has first claim on that money and can use it to pay off home or commercial mortgages, bank or student loans, tax liens, credit card debt, etc. Birth certificates are said to be a contract by which the parents sign over all title to their child, releasing it to the state; the state then assumes commercial control over the contract and processes it as if it were articles of incorporation.

    The myth holds that there is a distinction between "persons" and "the people" or individual "men" and "women" under the law and that the "legal person" or "straw man," a fictional commercial debtor corporation, is denoted by an uppercase name listed on birth certificates and Social Security cards, the birth certificate representing the body and the Social Security Number representing the commercial account. The man or woman can do commercial assignments by means of an asset called a bill of exchange that can be spent out. The myth holds that governmental courts are mere "colour of law and right" institutions that only have jurisdiction over legal persons. Admiralty law and the doctrine of parity play roles in this myth.

    The basic theory is that a filed UCC-1 is public notice of a registered lien by a real human being who is the secured party creditor upon the straw man, the government-created, foreign non-registered corporation. With the straw man under one's control, government has no access to the treasury direct account and also loses its connection to the real, living man or woman. No longer a subject, the man or woman become a free sovereign once again. This process is also known as "redemption." Other important documents in this theory are the security agreement, power of attorney, copyright notice, hold-harmless agreement, UCC-3, notice of security agreement, birth certificate bond, Form 56 (notice concerning fiduciary relationship), Form W-8BEN (serving notice to the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury of the correct status of the issuer of the bond and countering any presumption that the issuer might be considered to be a fictional entity), declaration of status, Form 1040-V, Form 1099-OID,[2] and the Notice of International Commercial Claim in Admiralty Administrative Remedy.[3] It is held, however, that the UCC-1 merely creates a rebuttable presumption, which can be overcome if a man or woman is receiving some sort of benefit from the state as a slave. It is held to be important to not sign documents such as W-4 forms, or if one is to sign them, to also write "under duress."

    One element of the myth states that Americans are U.S. nationals, not U.S. citizens, and can therefore avoid taxes by changing their filing status from "U.S. citizen" to "non-resident alien." This argument has been repeatedly rejected by federal courts.[4] Classes are often set up to teach the intricacies of the theory, and books have been published about it in the underground press. Canaanite law is held to be an important source of law and The Wizard of Oz (presumably because of the scarecrow character, i.e. the "straw man") and The Matrix trilogy are held to have important symbolisms in reference to this theory,[5] and there is also said to be some connection to the New World Order. The American's Bulletin sells an extensive product line related to the sovereignty myth.[6] It is also a widespread YouTube meme.[7]

    The theory also holds that the gold fringe on the U.S. flag, often seen on flags in courtrooms, is a warning that one is entering into a foreign enclave, the same as if one were stepping into a foreign embassy or a ship flying another country's flag, and that one will be under the jurisdiction of that flag.[8] According to Clay Conrad, former director of the Fully Informed Jury Association:[9]

    “ [A] maladjusted malcontent was arguing that the gold fringe around the flag made the court a maritime court. The judge invited the maladjusted malcontent to make his argument, and as he went on and on and on, the judge whispered to the bailiff, who removed the flag in its entirety. The maladjusted malcontent looked like he was about to cry...
    It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. I had someone call my office recently who thought he would attempt to litigate child support issues on his own. He responded with some UCC forms...and will probably end up in jail for contempt. But he won't listen to anyone who actually knows how to litigate such things because he has gotten everything he needs from some web listserv... so he thinks. He didn't hire us because we told him the truth.
    â€
    NO AMNESTY

    Don't reward the criminal actions of millions of illegal aliens by giving them citizenship.


    Sign in and post comments here.

    Please support our fight against illegal immigration by joining ALIPAC's email alerts here https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  6. #6
    Senior Member LuvMyCountry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    694
    What do you expect, our own Gov dosnt follow the law either. These guys are no better than the Obama Admin.

  7. #7
    GoodVibrations's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    258
    Thanks uniteasone,

    It does all sound crazy, but then again turn on the evening news. It's crazy times.

    Another thing I meant to add was that Bill Clinton and others tried to demonized the Tea Party group and it didn't work, so now they've come up with a new group to demonize. I dare say that all these out there fringe groups aren't really because they are patriotic Americans or as I said before they are on the ever expanding government payroll.

    There is also a growing divide with police and citizens, too.

    I just think that there is much more to this, but I'm sure it will be covered up once they scare Americans from these folks.

    My guess is these "sovereigns" if not all on he government payroll, must have really gotten under Obama's collar.

  8. #8
    Senior Member TexasBorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Getyourassoutahere, Texas
    Posts
    3,783
    These Sovereign Citizens are but the tip of the iceberg. There is a growing movement against those in power. It's all around us. The Tea Party just happens to be so large that the government dare not make any serious moves against them.
    ...I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism & everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid...

    William Barret Travis
    Letter From The Alamo Feb 24, 1836

  9. #9
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    PARADISE (San Diego)
    Posts
    99,040
    Sovereign Citizen Movement -- Extremism in America

    The 'sovereign citizen' movement is a loosely organized collection of groups and individuals who have adopted a right-wing anarchist ideology originating in ...
    www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/SCM.asp?xpicked=4
    NO AMNESTY

    Don't reward the criminal actions of millions of illegal aliens by giving them citizenship.


    Sign in and post comments here.

    Please support our fight against illegal immigration by joining ALIPAC's email alerts here https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  10. #10
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    PARADISE (San Diego)
    Posts
    99,040
    FBI — Sovereign Citizens - Press Room - Headline Archives

    Apr 13, 2010 ... Today, we look at a third threat—the “sovereign citizenâ€
    NO AMNESTY

    Don't reward the criminal actions of millions of illegal aliens by giving them citizenship.


    Sign in and post comments here.

    Please support our fight against illegal immigration by joining ALIPAC's email alerts here https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •