Anyone want to help me argue with an Anarchist??

[BlessUSA]

On our local forum....I think people here are getting laid back, and not responding anymore to the topics of illegals. If you want to help me set this Anarchist straight, please go to this link. Thanks guys!!

http://www.waukegan.org/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7815

(notice how he says immigrants, instead of illegals many times. Also calls them undocumented, and this is a new one to me....STATELESS WORKERS!!) I'm Penguin40, over there by the way....

[PhredE]

Sorry no takers here this morning BlessUSA.

One thing I like to rib that crowd with (along with the hard-core economic free-traders/libertarians) ... is to suggest that if they dislike rules and government so much, that instead of the USA, they might try to live in places like: Somalia or Afghanistan - where there is little little government control into any aspect of live - for the citizen and non-citizen alike.
Yes, there is 'free movement' and 'free trade', etc. etc, - but... would anyone want to live there???

[BlessUSA]

Thanks Phred! I'll keep on him. He's trying to tell me that gangs and such are basically because of the poverty in the U.S. I tell him that may be true, but why add more poverty to an already bad situation. Uggh sometimes I just want to strangle someone!!

[PhredE]

Hmmm... that makes me wonder...

If anarchy is essentially the absence of law and order (the lack of a sovereign and autonomous government), and gangs are a manifestation of societal poverty... then why would the existence of "gangs" even be a concern to the anarchist? After all, gangs (groups of people) organize themselves to do all sorts of things: play sports, throw social events, ... all the way up to crime, and general nefarious acts. The difference: laws place limits on what groups of people can do and what they can NOT do. I think the anarchist needs to revisit his/her definition of what 'legal' and 'anarchy' really are... (IMHO)

Edit/Update: Actually, many different things in society can be correlated with the existence of 'poverty'. I wrote a paper in high school many years ago, and the topic was about the increase in heart-related illness as the unemployment rate rises (the obvious logic being: as people lose jobs, their stress levels increase, as stress levels increase, blood pressure and other heart-related problems manifest themselves in greater frequency/intensity... <- simplified here). Sure enough, there was a very substantial association between the two. BUT... association is not the same as CAUSATION. While it is statistically valid to say that 2 things are highly related to each other (<somehow>, even this is not always easy to discern) that does not mean that one can say that one thing causes the other thing....

[Bowman]

I would suggest if it's anarchy he wants, he needs to move to Somalia. He could even trade his passport there with a Somalian, I am sure there would be thousands of takers.

That should really make the guys day, he could have anarchy plus help some poor people all at the same time!!!

[BlessUSA]

Hey guys, thanks for the info. It looks like we have snoopers over here, good to see they like to read Alipac!! Here's what was posted on our local forum...



Lee123
Starting Member



16 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 15:30:48
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well Penguin or BUsa, I was wondering when you were going to add additional comments. Stop demonizing an entire group of people. Study the History of Immigration. Understand why we are in this mess. Take accountability and stop all the anger.


Lee123
Starting Member



16 Posts
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 15:31:58
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is sad that the alleypackers try to take over this site with all of their anger and rhetoric. Penguin, your rallying cry over there didn´t work.

[BearFlagRepublic]

That Lee guy or whatever keeps going on about immigration history...not sure how it help his point. But I do know that the guest worker programs he is refering to were resulted in 2 things: depressed American wages, and increased illegal immigration. Which is exactly why the respective administrations ended them. Besides, what we are experiencing today is in no way similar to past immigration. we are experiencing a human tsunami the likes of which world history has never seen. This is an invasion. The greatest invasion in history.

[imblest]

That Lee guy or whatever keeps going on about immigration history...not sure how it help his point. But I do know that the guest worker programs he is refering to were resulted in 2 things: depressed American wages, and increased illegal immigration. Which is exactly why the respective administrations ended them. Besides, what we are experiencing today is in no way similar to past immigration. we are experiencing a human tsunami the likes of which world history has never seen. This is an invasion. The greatest invasion in history.

BearFlagRepublic, you can't tell these people anything. They think they know it all already and they're right and we're wrong. No way they'll listen. Wonder what "Lee123" would do about things since he says, "Understand why we are in this mess. Take accountability and stop all the anger?" I'd love to hear his definition of "why we're in this mess" and what his idea of accountability is, besides what do we need to be accountable for? Probably involves the cure-all AMNESTY!

Maybe if we approach it from a different angle--

BlessUSA, have you seen this?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...roy+beck&hl=en

This video just floored me, and I already knew there was a huge problem. I just had NO IDEA it was as BAD as it is!! Maybe it would affect someone on your local forum that way also if you posted it?

Hope this helps

[BearFlagRepublic]

BearFlagRepublic, you can't tell these people anything. They think they know it all already and they're right and we're wrong. No way they'll listen. Wonder what "Lee123" would do about things since he says, "Understand why we are in this mess. Take accountability and stop all the anger?" I'd love to hear his definition of "why we're in this mess" and what his idea of accountability is, besides what do we need to be accountable for? Probably involves the cure-all AMNESTY!

Maybe if we approach it from a different angle--

BlessUSA, have you seen this?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...roy+beck&hl=en

This video just floored me, and I already knew there was a huge problem. I just had NO IDEA it was as BAD as it is!! Maybe it would affect someone on your local forum that way also if you posted it?

Hope this helps

Good find impblest.......Well, we at least know that apparently Lee123 knows how to count, so he should be able to understand what NubersUSA was conveying in that video.

If you don't get it after that, God help you.

[BlessUSA]

Thanks Imblest! I'll post that video and see what happens. BearFlagRepublic was right...Good find!