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  1. #11

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    WaterStationPrez, I would like to ask you a question. How would you feel if you had direct knowledge that you helped a dangerous criminal? What if someone IN YOUR FAMILY was killed by this person? Would you feel guilty at all? You fail to see that is exactly what you are doing. You are helping people that obviously have no intentions of following our laws. You are aiding criminals, simply put. You had better hope that one day one of the people you give water to doesn't hurt someone, other than the id's etc that are automatically taken from American citizens by these illegals.
    Don't think about all the things you fear, just be glad you're here.

  2. #12
    Senior Member SicNTiredInSoCal's Avatar
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    WaterStationPrez,


    One out of three prisoners in the US are illegal aliens.

    Keep in mind Robert Krentz was giving aid (water) to an illegal on his own land and was murdered in cold blood for NO REASON. What if this was your father or brother?

    Illegals make a CHOICE to sneak over here and break our laws. You are aiding and abetting criminals.

    Yes, we are talking about people here - people who made a choice to sneak. You are not only aiding IA's, but murderers, thieves, rapists, child molesters, drunk drivers, human smugglers, coyotes, drug runners, cartels, pimps, prostitutes .....need I go on?

    Americans are tired of paying for these people, with thier lives, taxes and identities. Bleeding hearts such as yourself are helping with this debauchery. I appreciate your kindness, but coddling illegals has got to stop. Look at the big picture here. Think about how you are affecting other fellow Americans.
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  3. #13
    WaterStationPrez's Avatar
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    "Aiding and abetting" has a subjective meaning, which can be quite general, but it also has a very specific legal meaning. Our work does not meet the definition. The arrests made in Arizona were for littering and there was no significant penalty for any of them.

    We do not encourage border crossing. We have sponsored public service announcements on Mexican radio that discourage people from making the trip. We talk about the dangers, the number of deaths, the lack of any natural potable water, and the unreliability of guides and trails. We do not mention our name or our mission in those announcements. We do not advertise our stations at all.

    If we accept the figures put forth by DHS in 2008, about 10% of people who cross the border illegally commit other, non-status crimes, including property and violent crimes. I imagine there are city emergency rooms that have an even higher percentage of bad guys, but no one suggests they not receive assistance when they are injured, even when they are injured while committing a crime.

    It would be immoral indeed to allow the deaths of the other 90% just to avoid the possibility of helping someone who has evil intentions.

    Like all of you, I do not want people crossing the border into the desert. It is a harsh environment for which most of them are woefully unprepared. Whether they receive help from one of our stations or from the Border Patrol makes little difference to me; I just want fewer people to die in my back yard.

  4. #14
    Senior Member SicNTiredInSoCal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaterStationPrez
    "Aiding and abetting" has a subjective meaning, which can be quite general, but it also has a very specific legal meaning. Our work does not meet the definition. The arrests made in Arizona were for littering and there was no significant penalty for any of them.

    We do not encourage border crossing. We have sponsored public service announcements on Mexican radio that discourage people from making the trip. We talk about the dangers, the number of deaths, the lack of any natural potable water, and the unreliability of guides and trails. We do not mention our name or our mission in those announcements. We do not advertise our stations at all.

    If we accept the figures put forth by DHS in 2008, about 10% of people who cross the border illegally commit other, non-status crimes, including property and violent crimes. I imagine there are city emergency rooms that have an even higher percentage of bad guys, but no one suggests they not receive assistance when they are injured, even when they are injured while committing a crime.

    It would be immoral indeed to allow the deaths of the other 90% just to avoid the possibility of helping someone who has evil intentions.

    Like all of you, I do not want people crossing the border into the desert. It is a harsh environment for which most of them are woefully unprepared. Whether they receive help from one of our stations or from the Border Patrol makes little difference to me; I just want fewer people to die in my back yard.

    Maybe your efforts might be better made helping them stay in thier OWN country. Personally, I will not give donation money to any third world country, (because I DO NOT trust thier govt's) however I'd be glad to help give a single woman in mexico or S. America a micro loan to help them with a business of thier own. How much $$ have you spent on these waterers?

    ALL illegals who cross over our border by sneaking are law breakers. Besides that, even if only ten percent of them have bad or evil intentions, why oh why would we want to import more criminals when we already have more American convicts here already than we can handle?

    There is nothing good about illegal immigration. If you spent more time on this site, you might change your outlook on helping them.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  5. #15
    Senior Member SicNTiredInSoCal's Avatar
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    Like all of you, I do not want people crossing the border into the desert.
    We dont want people crossing the border illegally at all. We don't care how they do it - just that it needs to stop.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  6. #16
    WaterStationPrez's Avatar
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    Maybe your efforts might be better made helping them stay in thier OWN country.
    Interesting idea. We sponsor PSAs on Mexican radio in which we discourage people from making the cross. The message lists all of the reasons not to go – the heat, lack of potable, natural water, the vast expanse and multiplicity of trails, the lack of available assistance. We do not mention our stations or give the name of the organization.

    Personally, I will not give donation money to any third world country, (because I DO NOT trust thier [sic] govt's)
    I don’t make such donations, either.

    How much $$ have you spent on these waterers?
    Our budget varies year to year. An individual station can be established for a bit less than $50 + the cost of water.

    ... why oh why would we want to import more criminals when we already have more American convicts here already than we can handle?
    We don’t import anyone into the country. We try to reduce the deaths of those who do come.

    There is nothing good about illegal immigration. If you spent more time on this site, you might change your outlook on helping them.
    I’m opposed to illegal immigration, as well. I wish people did not attempt the trip. I would like to see meaningful legislation and enforcement of existing laws. However, I am equally opposed to needless death.

    I have been involved in human and civil rights for about 40 years, so, even though I find the rhetoric on this site to be interesting, I do not expect I will change my mind about trying to help people who are dying in the desert.

    And so far, our work has not cost taxpayers anything.

  7. #17
    Senior Member SicNTiredInSoCal's Avatar
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    Ok BEN CASSEL. Got it.

    I doubt you will change anyone's mind here on your position either.

    As far as "rhetoric" as you so eloquently put it - it's not "rheotoric" it's called emotion - "pissed" is one to start with. There are several members here who have lost thier loved ones to illegals. Several more have lost thier identities to illegals. Others have friends or who have themselves been involved in serious accidents with them because the IA's were driving drunk. Still more have lost businesses and jobs due to being undercut by illegals so bad that they could not stay in business. Others are just tired of seeing towns they grew up in get riddled with crime, gangs, drugs when the IA's moved on in that wasn't there before.

    As for me, my father was shanked in the stomach by a scumbag illegal who wanted my dad's wallet. He was stabbed after telling the a-hole to go to hell - who then ran away like the little coward that he was. Never to be seen again. Maybe he was one who would not have made it here illegally if not for you and your water stations.

    Makes one wonder if the tables were turned if you'd be so compasionate to someone who has no business being here. Get where I'm coming from, Ben?

    Need I go on or am I boring you with the details? The havoc that these "immigrants" you seem so bent on helping/aiding reaches far and wide across this country.

    However, I am equally opposed to needless death.
    I am also opposed also to needless death, but most of all to my fellow Americans!

    And so far, our work has not cost taxpayers anything.
    Good. Lets keep it that way. We here at ALIPAC will make sure it stays like that.


    Be safe, Ben. You might be giving water to them, but you are playing with fire. They've been known over and over again to bite the hand that feeds (or waters) them. Just ask Robert Krentz's family or the numerous old women who hired them for work around the house and ended up getting raped, stabbed, and finally burned alive in their own house because they felt "sorry" for them and wanted to "help" the poor little things. They paid for that compassion with their very lives. Hopefully we won't be reading about you in the paper for the same reasons...
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  8. #18
    Senior Member dregerk's Avatar
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    Response

    Quote Originally Posted by WaterStationPrez
    I am the president of Water Station, a group in California who places emergency water on wilderness roads and migrant trails. There are a couple of things I would like to clarify. First, our actions do not constitute aiding and abetting, as those have to involve transporting or harboring undocumented people or providing them with employment assistance. We do not take any position on border legislation, primarily because we are a 501(c)3 and have restrictions on political involvement, but secondly because we have differeing opinions among our volunteers.

    Our only mission is to save lives.

    We have licenses from the Bureau of Land Management and the superintendent of the state park that comprises some of the area in which we work. We cooperate with the U.S. Border Patrol; in fact, I had a meeting last month with the Chief Patrol Agent of the El Centro sector and we agreed to a cooperation plan. I have also met with Alan Bersin, Asst. DHS Secretary.

    I have always been fond of vibrant debate on important issues and I am pleased to have the opportunity to offer my unique perspective. Please be thoughtful, though -- remember that you are dealing not just with violations of status laws, but with people's lives.

    Thanks
    Interesting "THEORY", have you filed in every state in which you collect donations to your 5013c ORG? If not you may be in violation of Tax Fraud! You need to check with every state inwhich you actually plan on getting donations or have gotten donations from! BTW, look over your shoulder, someone may be also telling the IRS about your political involvement! Which is a REALLY BIG NO NO for a 5013c! Ouch!
    Any and all comments & Opinions and postings by me are considered of my own opinion, and not of any ORG that I belong to! PERIOD!

  9. #19
    WaterStationPrez's Avatar
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    Interesting "THEORY", have you filed in every state in which you collect donations to your 5013c ORG? If not you may be in violation of Tax Fraud! You need to check with every state inwhich you actually plan on getting donations or have gotten donations from!
    This is really silly. What are you suggesting has to be "filed in every state"? We file an IRS 990 and state FTB and DOS forms. That covers us regardless of the source of our donations.

    BTW, look over your shoulder, someone may be also telling the IRS about your political involvement! Which is a REALLY BIG NO NO for a 5013c! Ouch!
    To what political involvement are you referring? We have never supported or opposed a candidate and we spend no time lobbying. And your writing the accusation IN ALL CAPS doesn't change reality.

    Again, after a decade of operating a humanitarian non-profit, we've got a pretty good handle on requirements and limitations.

  10. #20
    Super Moderator GeorgiaPeach's Avatar
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    WaterStationPrez wrote:
    I am the president of Water Station, a group in California who places emergency water on wilderness roads and migrant trails. There are a couple of things I would like to clarify. First, our actions do not constitute aiding and abetting, as those have to involve transporting or harboring undocumented people or providing them with employment assistance. We do not take any position on border legislation, primarily because we are a 501(c)3 and have restrictions on political involvement, but secondly because we have differeing opinions among our volunteers.

    Our only mission is to save lives.

    We have licenses from the Bureau of Land Management and the superintendent of the state park that comprises some of the area in which we work. We cooperate with the U.S. Border Patrol; in fact, I had a meeting last month with the Chief Patrol Agent of the El Centro sector and we agreed to a cooperation plan. I have also met with Alan Bersin, Asst. DHS Secretary.

    I have always been fond of vibrant debate on important issues and I am pleased to have the opportunity to offer my unique perspective. Please be thoughtful, though -- remember that you are dealing not just with violations of status laws, but with people's lives.

    Thanks
    "Our only mission is to save lives. "

    Really? It is good to give a drink of cool water, however, on those "migrant trails," are you giving water to drug cartels? Rapists? Murderers? Terrorists?

    You may in truth be directly responsible for allowing people to come to murder innocent Americans. You are personally responsible for allowing illegal aliens to come and steal identities, take jobs from Americans trying to support their families, and making taxpayers give a free ride to lawbreakers.

    Americans are sick and tired of those who enable illegals, who provide cell phone GPS assistance, a place to hide, be harbored, etc. We do not want people harmed, but this is our nation, not the nation of illegal alien invaders.


    John 14:27 (King James Version)
    It is written,... Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
    Matthew 19:26
    But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
    ____________________

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