Thread: AZ- Plan would put water stations near trails used by immigr

This must be your group.

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REGION: Ten years later, Water Station work continues
GROUP PLACES WATER IN THE DESERT FOR THIRSTY IMMIGRANTS

By EDWARD SIFUENTES - esifuentes@nctimes.com | Posted: April 7, 2010

Ben Cassel, president of the Water Station, plants a flag next to a barrel containing water for illegal immigrants in the desert near the U.S.-Mexico border.

OCOTILLO ---- For 10 years, John Hunter of Escondido and a small group of volunteers have spent most of their spring and summer weekends in the hot, dry desert east of San Diego trying to save lives.
Volunteers, with federal government permission, place jugs of drinking water in the remote desert in an effort to reduce the number of people who die attempting to cross the border illegally each year.
Admittedly, it's not much, but it could be enough to keep a person from dying of thirst in an area where the temperature regularly exceeds 110 degrees in summer, members of the group said.
Despite the dangers, thousands of illegal immigrants choose to cross the border in the desert to avoid intense patrols to the east around the town of Calexico and to the west in San Diego.

The group, founded by Hunter in 2000, is called the Water Station project. Its name springs from water stations the group builds a few miles north of the U.S. border with Mexico.

John Hunter, a physicist who has helped design and build war-fighting hardware, is the brother of former U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-El Cajon, and the uncle of U.S. Rep. Duncan D. Hunter, R-El Cajon.
He said on Saturday, during the group's first trip to replenish the water this year, that he never expected to be doing the work 10 years later.
"I was hoping the next year, I'd be finished," he said.
As many as 5,607 illegal immigrants have died along the border over the last 15 years, according to a report released last year by the American Civil Liberties Union and Mexico's National Commission on Human Rights.

Water Station project

The stations, placed about a quarter-mile apart, are made up of blue barrels containing six 1-gallon jugs of water and brightly colored blue and orange flags planted next to them as markers.
In the stretches of remote desert that surround the Ocotillo area in Imperial County, about 100 miles east of San Diego, nearly two dozen illegal immigrants die each year, Hunter's group says. Many get lost, disoriented and die of dehydration in the unforgiving heat.
"What we do is really simple," said Ben Cassel, a high school teacher and president of the organization. "We know that there are thirsty people there, and we take water to them."
When the group started, it operated on a shoestring budget of about $5,000, including money out of Hunter's pocket and some donations.
Not much has changed since then, he said, bouncing on a four-wheel-drive truck between water stations on Saturday. He joked frequently, with a contagious, self-deprecating humor.
"I'm no longer the president!" Hunter said before jumping out of the truck, looking for a marker where a station will be built.
The group is now a nonprofit organization. It hold permits from the federal government, including the Bureau of Land Management, for up to 400 stations. But it has fewer than 200 active stations, because of dwindling donations and a shortage of volunteers.
It takes about $30,000 a year to run the organization, including the costs of buying water, car insurance, permit fees, fuel and volunteer meals. The organization owns one truck it purchased with a donation that is used to take the water to remote desert locations.
'Work no one else will do'
Volunteers, who provide their own vehicles and much of the labor, are rewarded with a free lunch at the Old Highway Cafe in Ocotillo, where they meet to divide the workload.
Every two weeks starting in late March, the group travels to the desert to replenish water jugs. Of the 35 stations visited by one group of volunteers along an old railroad line west of Ocotillo, about a dozen stations were missing one or more jugs.
Laura Hunter, John Hunter's wife, said it is difficult but necessary work.
"We are doing the work no one else will do," she said.
There is also a tinge of danger.
In Ocotillo, where the group stores its supplies, there were boxes of water containers with stab marks. Some people cut the jugs to spill the water, or tear the flags down. One of the barrels is pockmarked with bullet holes.
Unpopular
Rob Fryer, a longtime volunteer, said the bullet-riddled barrel was probably not intended as a malicious act, but more likely the work of a thoughtless individual.
The organization often gets hate mail, Laura Hunter said. John Hunter simply brushes those kinds of comments aside.
"I don't care about being popular," he said. "My wife and my kids are all that matters to me."
However, his work does have some unlikely supporters. His brother, the former congressman, was a hero to immigration hard-liners during his long career as a lawmaker, but he helped the group secure permission for the project.
The former congressman's son, Rep. Duncan D. Hunter, who took over the seat and is also a critic of illegal immigration, said recently that his uncle is a "humanitarian and (is) trying to save lives."
Although he comes from a family of conservative politicians, John Hunter said he tries to stay out of politics.
His brother joined a House majority in 2005 that approved a tough enforcement bill that included a measure to expand the definition of migrant smugglers to people who help them ---- potentially even his younger brother. The bill failed to become law.
John Hunter said he was unaware of his brother's involvement in the bill, but he said he would have disobeyed that law because he feels strongly that the water stations help save lives.
"I try to get along," he said about his relationship with his family.
He added jokingly, "You'd hate to get kicked out of the family Thanksgiving and Christmas parties."
'A secret'
Despite the humor, he takes the work seriously. In fact, he recently took on another cause.
Late last year, he swam across the All-American Canal to protest the drowning deaths of hundreds of illegal immigrants in that waterway.
He and another activist swam across the canal, which carries water from the Colorado River to San Diego County, to string safety buoys that illegal immigrants could use to cross the water safely.
As many as 600 people have drowned in the canal over the years, he said.
As he did when he noted the deaths in the desert, John Hunter said he decided to do something about the drowning deaths.
"It was a secret. It was unknown," he said. "So we figured, we needed to do something about it."
For more about the Water Station project, visit www.desertwater.org.
Call staff writer Edward Sifuentes at 760-740-3511.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcou ... adfb4.html

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John 14:27 (King James Version)
It is written,... Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

It is good to give a drink of cool water, however, on those "migrant trails," are you giving water to drug cartels? Rapists? Murderers? Terrorists?

Tell me, when you write this are you quoting the priest or the Levite?

You are personally responsible for allowing illegal aliens to come and steal identities, take jobs from Americans trying to support their families, and making taxpayers give a free ride to lawbreakers.

I did not allow them to come in, just as the Samaritan did not allow the Jew to come into Jericho. He also did not allow him to die there.

Americans are sick and tired of those who (1) enable illegals, (2) who provide cell phone GPS assistance, (3) a place to hide, (4) be harbored, etc. (5) We do not want people harmed, but this is our nation, not the nation of illegal alien invaders.

(1) We only enable them in the sense that we do not allow them to die in our back yard. We do not encourage or assist them in crossing the border; they have already done so when they reach our stations;
(2) We are not associated with the UCSD folks who designed the TBI Tool, but they assured us that the technology was such that it was only good for finding help if the migrant was in distress. They could save their life by finding a water station or a Border patrol checkpoint. It won't have the capacity for longer range than that. For a long range solution, the migrant would have to go the Radio Shack in Tecate and buy a Garmin receiver.
(3) & (4) We do not hide or harbor anyone; those actions are against the law and we do not disobey the law.
(5) I prefer having lawbreakers arrested than having them buried.

WaterStationPrez wrote:

I prefer having lawbreakers arrested than having them buried.

Mr. Krentz, and other Americans do not get a chance to continue their lives. Illegal aliens took them.

Do you call Border Patrol when you encounter illegal aliens?

Are you not enabling them to continue their journey to come and bring harm to the United States? The ones that you assist, may be coming to destroy many.

When you watch the actual videos of illegal aliens crossing with drugs and weapons, do you imagine that they are coming to bring good to the citizenry?

The main point is, if the government would secure and protect the nation's borders, then any harm to illegal aliens, or to the citizens murdered by illegal aliens would be avoided.

John 14:27 (King James Version)
It is written,... Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Mr. Krentz, and other Americans do not get a chance to continue their lives. Illegal aliens took them.

I am opposed to unnecessary deaths, including those of Robert Krentz, Robert Rosas and many others. There are, indeed, bad people crossing the border. I am not in any way opposed to the CBP doing its very difficult job.

Do you call Border Patrol when you encounter illegal aliens?

As I said in an earlier post, my organization has an cooperative agreement with the El Centro sector of the Border Patrol. We follow every part of that agreement.

Are you not enabling them to continue their journey to come and bring harm to the United States? The ones that you assist, may be coming to destroy many.

CBP estimates that 10% of the undocumented migrants who cross by land or sea are dangerous people, likely to commit crimes other than the status offense of being undocumented. They are low-level drug operatives, gang members and gang leaders, those in flight to avoid arrest or prosecution, and others. They are very bad people, indeed. However, they represent about 10% of the border crossers.

You presumably are asking (telling?) me to stop the work that we do and to allow the other 90% to die. Perhaps you might address the question as to whether you believe that they – the nonviolent migrants whose only crime is the lack of proper documentation – should be allowed to die of dehydration and hyperthermia.

The main point is, if the government would secure and protect the nation's borders, then any harm to illegal aliens, or to the citizens murdered by illegal aliens would be avoided.

We might agree on this point. I would support any action or legislation that would reduce the number of deaths in the desert.

WaterStationPrez wrote:

We do not encourage border crossing. We have sponsored public service announcements on Mexican radio that discourage people from making the trip. We talk about the dangers, the number of deaths, the lack of any natural potable water, and the unreliability of guides and trails. We do not mention our name or our mission in those announcements. We do not advertise our stations at all.

Funny, you don't seem to mention the fact that entering this country illegally is a violation of our federal laws, as well as a direct assault on this nation’s sovereignty. Or is it simply a matter of protecting illegal invaders with your so called "organization."

Your argument to assist them, is similar to saying that a guy who robs a bank, needs you to provide a getaway car, because if you don't, he may die when the police show up. He too, was just trying to provide a living for himself or his family.

John 14:27 (King James Version)
It is written,... Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Re responses from No Bueno and Georgia Peach:

Funny, you don't seem to mention the fact that entering this country illegally is a violation of our federal laws, as well as a direct assault on this nation’s sovereignty.

I doubt if many migrants are unaware that the border crossing is illegal. The PSAs are designed to make them change their minds by telling them things they might not already know. They aren't designed to make a meaningless statement of political appeasement.

How could you criticize the PSAs? The messages have a single purpose and that is to prevent people from attempting to make the border crossing. Isn't that what you want? And a bonus, for us anyway, is that the PSAs save lives before they are actually in danger.

Or is it simply a matter of protecting illegal invaders with your so called "organization."[?]

Your last question is impossible to answer, since the antecedent of "it" is unclear. If you are referring to the PSAs being an attempt to protect the people making the crossing, well of course that is their purpose. Like you, we don't want people to cross the border illegally. We would like to see politicians with the good sense and courage to pass meaningful legislation and enforce existing laws.

In the meantime, we want people to stop dying for violating relatively minor status laws.

The quotation marks around "organization" also don't have much meaning. Perhaps you might clarify what "so-called 'organization'" means.

Your argument to assist them, is similar to saying that a guy who robs a bank, needs you to provide a getaway car, because if you don't, he may die when the police show up.

I'm not sure congratulations are in order, but you may have made the dumbest analogy on this subject to date. No part of the comparison stands up -- the nature of the crimes are not comparable, as one is a passive status crime committed in the absence of others and the other is a crime against property with clear and present danger. Providing a getaway car does meet the legal definition of aiding and abetting, while our project does not. And finally, the danger to your bank robber is directly related to his crime; the danger to the migrant is incidental.

I could provide you with some assistance on developing a more appropriate metaphor.

WaterStationPrez wrote:

The quotation marks around "organization" also don't have much meaning. Perhaps you might clarify what "so-called 'organization'" means.

What is means smart guy is that I do not think much of your organization or its mission. It also appears i'm not alone in that sentiment, as the majority of comments at the source site reflect that position.

I doubt if many migrants are unaware that the border crossing is illegal.

Yeah...and I doubt if many Illegal invaders are unaware that crossing the border illegally is dangerous, so why do you have to remind them in a PSA? Illegals know the risks and therefore assume those risks if they choose to break the law by crossing the border illegally.

Obviously it doesn't bother you that the illegal invader you provide assistance to, might just go on and kill an American citizen tomorrow.

So you believe that crossing the border illegally and disregarding the sovereignty of the United States is violating a relatively minor status law? Your misguided efforts make sense given that context.

We would like to see politicians with the good sense and courage to pass meaningful legislation and enforce existing laws.

Meaningful legislation? What's your definition of meaningful legislation? My definition of meaningful legislation is the bill that was just passed in Arizona making it a crime to be illegal in Arizona.

Yeah...and I doubt if many Illegal invaders are unaware that crossing the border illegally is dangerous, so why do you have to remind them in a PSA? Illegals know the risks and therefore assume those risks if they choose to break the law by crossing the border illegally.

Actually, it was surprising to me when I learned how many people do not know how vast the desert is. Our message is, “Don’t cross the border.â€

Actually, it was surprising to me when I learned how many people do not know how vast the desert is.

Yes...i'm sure it was.

I wonder if we might return to my unanswered question: Do you believe that migrants who get in trouble in the desert due to hyperthermia and/or dehydration, or misjudging the depth and power of the water in a canal should be allowed to die?

I guess you missed ( or have chosen to disregard it) the part when I said that crossing the desert is inherently dangerous and those who engage in this reckless and irresponsible ( as well as illegal) act, must face the consequences of their actions -whatever they may ultimately turn out to be.

Oh...they are not migrants, they are illegal invaders, breaching the sovereignty of this country. The term migrants downplays and otherwise implies a hint of legitimacy to what these people are doing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm not the one being compelled to allow them to die because I object to the use of water stations. THEY are the ones putting themselves in a position where death is a substantial likelihood because of their irresponsible actions. This is not my fault, nor do I have any duty to provide assistance to those engaged in the invasion of my country. Why don't you include this language in your PSA's.

Get it? I hope i'm no longer dancing around the question.

The Border Patrol estimates that 90% of the people who cross the border do not commit any other offenses other than being (and usually working) in the U.S. illegally. I don’t want them to cross the border, but if they do, I don’t want them to die in the desert.

Since it is impossible to separate the 90% who commit no crime other than illegal crossing and illegal employment from the ones who commit other, more serious crimes, the choice then becomes whether I will allow all of the migrants who wind up in distress to die.

Every premature death diminishes me and society. One life does not have more intrinsic value than another.

Explain that to the mother or father of a child murdered, raped or brutalized at the hands of an illegal invader. One innocent American slaughtered at the hands of an illegal is not worth any humanitarian act directed towards these people.

Since you like statistics:

Putting aside the terrorism threat, the lack of border security contributes to crime. In Los Angeles, a look at outstanding arrest warrants for homicide reveals that over 90% are for illegal aliens. Examination of all LA felony arrest warrants (murder, rape, armed robbery, etc.) shows that 65% are for illegal aliens. The Manhattan Institute estimates that 350 killers managed to escape back into Mexico and the Mexican government refuses to extradite these killers to the US to stand trial.

In another study, a sample group of 55,000 criminal aliens committed 700,000 criminal acts and were arrested a total of 450,000 times.

I would be unwilling to take the chance that the invader I save today, may go on and kill an American citizen tomorrow.
There is no way you can guarantee that only the job stealing invaders will drink your water. As I and many other Americans see it....that's a problem!

With that said, I don't want these people to die in the desert either. That's why I would like to see the military at the border, and increased BP in those areas known to be utilized by invaders to breach our border.

Also, why would you believe that only brown people would be singled out when illegal immigration is engaged in by people of every ethnicity and race? Illegal is not a race and therefore, will not result in any one group being singled out. The law does not target, nor exclude based upon race.

However, for sake of argument, if 90 % of the illegal invaders in this country were of a certain race, does this mean we are prevented from combating this problem, simply because their is a chorus of disapproval from those who choose to view this as a racial issue, as opposed to a rule of law issue?

If I were in downtown Tucson, dressed a particular way, walking a particular way, acting a particular way, I would not be detained. Chances are, if a Hispanic (or other dark-skinned) person had identical clothing, comportment and behavior, he would be. Skin color is not probable cause.

Well first off, I don't know what you mean when you use language such as: dressed a particular way, walking a particular way, acting a particular way, as this is subjective and open to interpretation, based upon specific training and experience that police officers are required to have. With that said, I'm not even going to attempt to speculate on what you're trying to suggest here.

Generally, police officers have better things to do than stop people who are simply walking down the street. This is nothing more than alarmist poppycock from pro-illegal proponets.


Have you actually read SB 1070?

"Requires a reasonable attempt to be made to determine the immigration status of a person during any legitimate contact made by an official or agency of the state or a county, city, town or political subdivision (political subdivision) if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S."

One can only assume that "legitimate contact" refers to being pulled over or stopped by the police for already doing something illegal. And reasonable suspicion probably refers to, oh, failure to provide valid identification...?

No one is going to get stopped on the street for "looking Hispanic" or speaking Spanish.

However, If I were illegal, I would probably stay away from large groups of men who are loitering in front of Home Depot or 7-11 in order to illegally solicit work. I would also stay off the road if I didn't have a valid operators license, in order to avoid being pulled over for some other driving offense; which might in turn lead to the discovery of my illegal status.

Above all however, is the fact that if your doing nothing wrong, then you have nothing to fear.

States have a duty to protect their citizens, especially where the federal government has chosen to ignore the problem. 1070 does not violate or contradict any federal law that's already in existence, but rather mirrors existing fed law.

Federal law requires noncitizens to carry their immigration documents, such as visas or "green cards" for legal residents, at all times. The Arizona law mirrors federal law, saying that "willful failure to carry alien registration documents" is a misdemeanor and subject to arrest and penalties under state law.

There is no Constitutional basis for opposing this law and i'm confident this will be the case when all challenges are exhausted and the law is implemented.

It's obvious we have a fundamental difference in opinion on this matter and always will. Fortunately, based upon the comments I have reviewed, the majority of those expressing their opinion agree with me and not you or your cause.

Here's a picture you might enjoy. I'm sure they appreciate your efforts.