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  1. #1
    Senior Member zeezil's Avatar
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    University of NC takes up immigrant issue

    UNC takes up immigrant issue
    System will examine whether to change guidelines to allow in-state tuition for undocumented students
    MARK JOHNSON
    mjohnson@charlotteobserver.com


    Harry Lynch, News & ObserverUNC System President Erskine Bowles (right) with UNC Chancellor James Moeser.

    RALEIGH --The University of North Carolina system will study whether to provide in-state tuition to illegal immigrants, system President Erskine Bowles said Thursday.

    The announcement, generated by a commission studying the schools' future, comes just after the state's community college system endured a week of heated criticism for deciding to admit undocumented students.

    Bowles neither endorsed nor opposed the in-state tuition idea, which was included in a report by the UNC Tomorrow commission created in March.

    "We have to do a lot of research on this to see if it makes sense," Bowles said. "I don't think we can take the ostrich theory and stick our heads in the sand on this issue and do nothing, act like none of these people are here."

    Ten states have enacted legislation to provide in-state tuition to illegal immigrants: California, Illinois, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah and Washington, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

    The N.C. General Assembly quickly sank similar legislation in 2005 amid a backlash from constituents.

    Last month, officials at the state's community college system told their 58 campuses that they must admit illegal immigrants who meet the basic admission requirements. Senate Republican leader Phil Berger, who criticized that policy, said the idea of in-state tuition for undocumented immigrants at the state's universities is "wrong-headed."

    Easley's office on Thursday initially suggested that the university system does not admit illegal immigrants and that tax dollars are not spent to educate them, neither of which is accurate.

    "The governor has made his position clear on higher education," said Sherri Johnson, Easley's communications director. Last week Easley, a Democrat, at first refused to take a position on the community colleges' admission policy but two days later endorsed it.

    The UNC system admits illegal immigrants and has done so uniformly since 2004, a policy that Bowles embraced Thursday. Those students pay the higher out-of-state tuition -- $21,000 at UNC Chapel Hill, for example, compared with $5,340 for in-state students.

    During a recent school year, the policy cost taxpayers an average of about $450 for each undocumented student.

    The total number of undocumented immigrants attending the schools is difficult to determine but appears to be small. UNC Charlotte reported eight this year. UNC Chapel Hill has four.

    Tax dollars are used to subsidize a large chunk of in-state tuition but also a portion of out-of-state students at some, but not all, UNC campuses, according to data from the General Assembly.

    That subsidy for out-of-state students varied by campus -- from $207 at UNC Greensboro to $14,325 at N.C. School of the Arts during the 2005-06 school year, the most recent data available.

    At five campuses, illegal immigrants and others who paid out-of-state-tuition paid more than the cost of their classes that year. Those schools include UNC Charlotte, where out-of-state tuition during the 2005-06 school year totaled $725 more than the cost of their classes.

    The total amount taxpayers pay to educate illegal immigrants at state colleges and universities is unclear because not only does the subsidy vary by campus, but so does the number of undocumented immigrants at each school.

    Bowles said children brought to the United States by their parents shouldn't be penalized, and he also offered economic justifications for admitting illegal immigrants.

    "We are in a knowledge-based, global economy. We need a highly trained, highly educated work force. (Hispanics are) the fastest growing segment of our work force," he said. "If we don't do something we're going to create another permanent underclass that will be a drain on society instead of being productive members of the community."

    The two Democratic candidates for governor, Lt. Gov. Beverly Perdue and State Treasurer Richard Moore, both said they oppose admission for illegal immigrants. Two Republican candidates -- Salisbury lawyer Bill Graham and former N.C. Supreme Court Justice Bob Orr -- also oppose admission, though Graham said he supported it for immigrants applying for citizenship. The third Republican candidate, state Sen. Fred Smith, could not be reached Thursday.

    The UNC system's policy, which was enacted in November 2004, differs from the community colleges' mandate. The community colleges' open-door admissions policy requires they accept anyone who meets the basic requirements of either graduating from high school or being 18 years old. The community colleges' top lawyer issued a memo last month saying that policy includes illegal immigrants.

    The state's public university campuses, however, conduct competitive admissions based on grades and other factors. They are not required to admit illegal immigrants. The universities may consider them for admission as they would any other student with out-of-state status.

    Illegal immigrants who apply to the state's universities:

    • Must have graduated from a U.S. high school.

    • May not receive federal or state grants or loans.

    • Must pay out-of-state tuition.

    • Could be rejected because the program to which they are applying qualifies them for a professional license, such as nursing. That's because federal law prohibits awarding professional licenses to undocumented immigrants.

    Illegal immigrants are counted within the 18 percent cap on out-of-state students, so they do not deprive a N.C. student of a slot at the universities.

    Out-of-state costs

    Here's how much North Carolina paid per out-of-state student during the 2005-2006 school year. Illegal immigrant students pay out-of-state tuition. If the amount is in parentheses, it indicates that the students paid that much more than the cost of their classes.

    • Appalachian State ($741)

    • East Carolina ($486)

    • Elizabeth City State $5,618

    • Fayetteville State $429

    • N.C. A&T $726

    • N.C. Central $900

    • N.C. School of the Arts $14,325

    • N.C. State $3,833

    • UNC Asheville ($682)

    • UNC Chapel Hill $1,093

    • UNC Charlotte ($725)

    • UNC Greensboro $207

    • UNC Pembroke $255

    • UNC Wilmington ($1,026)

    • Western Carolina $1,312

    • Winston-Salem State $3,801

    http://www.charlotte.com/breaking_news/ ... 94874.html
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  2. #2
    patrio's Avatar
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    letter to Erskine against policy

    I read this morning in the Charlotte Observer about plans to review the policy to potentially give in-state tuition to illegal immigrants in the UNC System.

    As a double graduate of two UNC Schools I want to state my strong opposition to such a policy for the following reasons.

    Illegal immigrants have broken the law. Yes, many of them were brought here as small children but ultimately their status is still illegal. If we allow them to have higher education without resolved status, what is the benefit of this education and training when they cannot legally work in North Carolina or any state? To work would require more law breaking such as false paperwork or even identification theft.

    To say that comprehensive immigration reform will resolve their status is a huge gamble. The majority of the American people are against Amnesty, and have lobbied and will continue to lobby against policy that gives a pathway to citizenship to these lawbreakers.

    Finally, if we give these students in-state tuition, how many North Carolinians will not be able to have a seat at their UNC school of choice? How much financial aid will now be unavailable to hard working citizens who are struggling to send their children to universities in the face of rising costs? The resources are limited and should be given to North Carolina citizens instead of diluting them by adding a lawbreaking group to the pool.

    While at our Charlotte and Greensboro campuses, I saw many out of state students go through a rigorous process to try to get in state status. To let undocumented illegal immigrants receive the precious commodity of in state tuition is a slap in the face to all those who follow the law and play by the rules. I beg you to consider not enacting this policy.

  3. #3
    Senior Member zeezil's Avatar
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    UNC joins fray on immigrant tuition
    The system will review its position on whether to give in-state tuition to those who come here illegally
    Kristin Collins, Staff Writer

    CHAPEL HILL - Joining the state's community colleges in the debate over how to treat illegal immigrants who seek college educations, the University of North Carolina system will study the costs and benefits of offering in-state tuition to undocumented residents at its 16 university campuses.

    In-state tuition would save illegal immigrants who attend college thousands of dollars a year, putting higher education within the reach of many who cannot afford it now. In-state tuition rates range from $1,500 to $3,700, compared with $10,000 to $20,000 for out-of-state students.

    "We can't stick our heads in the sand," system President Erskine Bowles said Thursday. "These people are here, and we have to deal with it. The last thing in the world we want to do is create another permanent underclass."

    Bowles said the study was the recommendation of the UNC Tomorrow Commission, a group of business, community and academic leaders. Bowles established the 28-member commission to suggest ways that the university can better serve the state in the midst of a changing economy.

    Bowles and the commission took a cautious approach to the tuition issue, which has been highly controversial.

    A related controversy erupted this month over admission policies at state community colleges. Top officials there announced that all campuses should admit illegal immigrants as students but charge out-of-state tuition. The decision drew nationwide criticism and the opposition of all five gubernatorial candidates.

    Opponents of the policies say taxpayer money should not be spent educating people who are in the country illegally. Some argue that the practice robs resources from American students and encourages illegal immigration.

    The UNC group did not support or oppose the tuition move. Members said the university system should do extensive study before deciding whether to ask the legislature to change state law, which prohibits campuses from offering in-state tuition to illegal immigrants.

    In harm's way

    Regardless, Bowles acknowledged that the study is likely to put the state's university system at the center of an issue that has exposed deep divisions in the past.

    Legislators from both parties advocated changing the law in 2005, but their bill failed after sparking a rowdy debate and threats of violence against Hispanic advocates.

    On Thursday, Edenton Mayor Roland Vaughan was the only commission member to speak in opposition.

    "It's a slippery slope," Vaughan said. "There are documented citizens of this state who can't get their children into the campuses."

    The state's universities already admit illegal immigrants who graduate from U.S. high schools. UNC guidelines adopted in 2004 say illegal immigrants can attend if they pay out-of-state rates.

    Out of reach

    Those rates, coupled with ineligibility for financial aid, make attending college impossible for many illegal immigrants.

    In a draft report released Thursday, the commission made a host of suggestions for new university initiatives, which included enhancing global competitiveness, helping high schools cut dropout rates, improving health care and protecting the environment.

    In a section devoted to helping under-served populations, such as black males and Hispanics, the commission said the university should examine "whether and under what circumstances, if any, undocumented students who graduate from North Carolina high schools and who are academically qualified for admission to a UNC institution should be charged in-state tuition."

    The report recommends studying the legal issues involved. It also asks the university system to calculate the cost of educating illegal immigrants, along with the cost to society of allowing a fast-growing population to be effectively excluded from a college eduction.

    The commission will submit its recommendations to the UNC system's Board of Governors in January.

    Jim Phillips, a Greensboro lawyer who is chairman of both the commission and the Board of Governors, said the university is being forced to take up the slack for a federal government that hasn't secured the borders.

    "We can't deport them," Phillips said. "So it's up to us to say, 'Are they going to be here in jail or on public assistance? Or are they going to be productive members of society?' "

    The recommendation stirred slight discussion among a diverse group of commission members, which includes Hispanic advocates, business owners and political leaders such as former Republican Gov. James Holshouser.

    Martin Lancaster, the departing president of the community college system, attended the UNC commission meeting Thursday. Even after enduring fierce criticism in the past week, he said in an interview that he thinks the universities are right to look at how they can serve illegal immigrants.

    "I think it's important in a knowledge-based economy that we educate every human being, period," Lancaster said.

    Bowles said the university system will study all the consequences of offering in-state tuition to illegal immigrants.

    He said he doesn't know how many illegal immigrants attend the universities now, although he suspects it is a small number because of the high tuition, nor does he know how many might apply if in-state rates were offered.

    'Deal with facts'

    "Let's deal with facts," he said. "Let's do the research and look at both sides of the equation."

    Andrea Bazán, a commission member who helped lead the push for in-state tuition in 2005, said she hopes the commission has opened an opportunity for a more measured discussion of the benefits of educating all residents, regardless of their immigration status.

    "It's unfortunate that it becomes a controversial political issue," Bazán said. "What we're trying to address is educating the people of this state. ... It's a matter of our economic competitiveness."

    kristin.collins@newsobserver.com or (919) 829-4881
    http://www.newsobserver.com/news/higher ... 16697.html
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    Re: letter to Erskine against policy

    Quote Originally Posted by patrio
    To let undocumented illegal immigrants receive the precious commodity of in state tuition is a slap in the face to all those who follow the law and play by the rules. policy.
    Welcome, patrio!

    Well said. Every seat taken up by an illegal is one less for our children.

    I just noticed a thread in the Observer forum about this. If you have time, please take a minute to post your comments there as well.
    http://forums.charlotte.com/n/mb/messag ... 1.1&maxT=1
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  5. #5

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    Illegal immigrants are counted within the 18 percent cap on out-of-state students, so they do not deprive a N.C. student of a slot at the universities.
    Now it's justified because only Americans that don't reside in NC will be deprived of a chance to attend UNC. Why can they not see other nations citizens should not be given precedence over Americans? With their education, you'd think they'd get it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1_paint
    Illegal immigrants are counted within the 18 percent cap on out-of-state students, so they do not deprive a N.C. student of a slot at the universities.
    Now it's justified because only Americans that don't reside in NC will be deprived of a chance to attend UNC. Why can they not see other nations citizens should not be given precedence over Americans? With their education, you'd think they'd get it.
    These are sneaky people we're dealing with here. They'll have to be classified in-state. They'll loose money coming from out-of-state students which they can't afford to do.

    Something they don't mention is a lot of classes fill up quickly at CH & probably State, too.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member SOSADFORUS's Avatar
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    Welcome"Patrio" to Alipac so glad you have joined us, please stay around and sign up for the "Action Alerts" at the top left side of the page! We need all the help we can get.

    Not much I can add to the post you wrote above....WELL SAID!

    but It is time these politicans get through their "BIG FAT HEADS" they are giving away money that belongs to the 'TAXPAYERS" Helloooo it is not your damn money, it is ours, it does not fall off of a tree it comes out of our hard earned paychecks and should not go to anyone who does not belong in this country....Why can you not get that though your thick skull!!
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