Thread: Conservative Candidate Doug Hoffman Supports Amnesty

You have done excellent work on researching the candidates and exposing the truth. The problem is obvious. NY 23 is , like most of America, in the unenviable position of choosing the "least worst" candidate. I may have misread your information, but my conclusion, so far, is they are all bad Americans and that Hoffman is the least bad. How can we get decent, conservative, honest people to run for office. Has America sunk so low that like Diogenes, we cannot find an honest person"'

I am in Georgia and there is an old joke about Diogenes here--"Diogenes came to Atlanta to search for an honest man. While downtown, someone stole his lantern from him and he had to stop his search."

Here is the Daily Kos article that I saw:

NY-23: The most liberal candidate leads (and it's not the Dem)
Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 02:22:03 PM PDT

Club for Growth darling Doug Hoffman is running on the Conservative Party line, and has even garnered the endorsement of Fred Thompson. The guy has legitimate traction, fueled by the fact that Dede Scozzafava, the Republican, is actually the most liberal candidate in the race. (Heck, she has run on the very liberalWorking Families Party ballot line in the past.)

Sure, she is a Republican, and opposes the public option. But she's been willing to raise taxes when budgets require it, and is to the left of most Democrats on social issues (including supporting gay marriage). That's why conservatives are panicked about her -- for a party that is becoming more regional, more conservative, more ideologically rigid, Scozzafava's brand of moderate conservatism is grating. Hence, Hoffman has a real shot at not just playing spoiler and undermining the GOP candidate's chances, but also of potentially winning.

The "Democrat" isn't even a Democrat -- he was a registered independent when selected by the district's Democratic county chairs for the special election. On social issues, he's pro-choice, but opposes gay marriage. On health care, he opposes a public option but doesn't have the balls to say so, so he talks all squishy like claiming he has no "litmus test" on the issue. He's a Lieberdem Blue Dog, and would strengthen the part of the Democratic caucus that is actually the problem, rather than the solution.

So who to root for? A Blue Dog who would strengthen the Democrats' corporatist faction, or a Republican version of a Lieberdem, who will probably be muzzled, but could -- if she remained true to her record in Albany -- be more of a Susan Collins-type Republican, a moderate in an ideologically rigid party willing to give the Dems fake "bipartisan" cover with crossover votes every once in a while.

If Republicans lose the seat, it'll dent that sense of momentum they believe is headed their way. If they win the seat, it will have been with a liberal Republican, suggesting that their path to electoral relevance in the northeast is to ditch the Southern-fueled ultra conservatism. Both are good for us.

If the Democrat loses the race, we lose nothing -- it was previously held by a Republican. If he wins the seat, we gain another obnoxious Blue Dog, undermining our caucus from within while adding just a single vote to our already dominant House majorities. Furthermore, the typical DC wankers will take this as "proof" that you need to run Lieberdems in such districts to win them, while ignoring the fragmented conservative opposition. Not much of an advantage at all. More than likely, a net disadvantage.

So it's official, I'm rooting for the Republican to win. As a congresswoman, she could either move even more to the left to properly represent her progressive-trending district and be a pain in the side of the GOP caucus (they have nothing like our Blue Dogs), or Democrats can field a real Democrat to challenge her in 2010.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/ ... the-Dem%29

However, it now appears that the Kos guy has managed to get in a huff and take his endorsement back.

Oops! Daily Kos 'Unendorses' Scozzafava in NY-23 After Original Endorsement Backfires
By P.J. Gladnick
October 30, 2009

Oops!

Markos Moulitsas, founder of the Daily Kos, has discovered that his endorsement can be political poison. Such was the case with his endorsement at the beginning of this month of the very liberal Republican candidate, Dede Scozzafava, in the New York 23rd CD special election:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladni ... dorsement-

IMO they all suck. But I would wonder about Dede Scozzafava's roots or where she came from. Is she going turn into someone who joins the CHC? Sorry if that sounds prejudiced but I am just sick of what appears to be Americans gong in, but turning into something else after they get there.

Originally Posted by Judy

What union is Ron McDougall associated with and what Unions support amnesty?!

The UAW is the same union Ron McDougall is active in and the UAW supports amnesty! You stated that Hoffman supports amnesty yet you support a candidate who is tied to ACORN via WFA and she has been endorsed by WFA twice in the past. The last time was in 2008 with Obama!

UAW statement:
"During 2008 the UAW will continue to work for fundamental reforms to our broken immigration system. We need to establish a system that is based on full, equal and enforceable rights for all workers, including immigrant and guest workers, and also includes a well-defined pathway for immigrant and guest workers to eventually adjust their status and become full fledged stakeholders in our nation".

http://www.uaw.org/cap/08/issues/issue09.php

Looks like she's done for anyway so this thread is moot.

October 30, 2009 11:03 AM 15 Comments
Scozzafava Collapses, Republicans Refocus »
By Elizabeth Benjamin

The events of the last 24 hours have pretty much clinched it: NY-23 is now officially a two-man race between the Democratic nominee Bill Owens and the Conservative Party upstart Doug Hoffman.

From NRCC Chairman Pete Sessions to former Gov. George Pataki to former Mayor Rudy Giuliani (through his operative, Jake Menges), Republicans are quickly abandoning their nominee, Assemblywoman Dede Scozzafava, and backing Hoffman in a last-ditch effort to keep former Rep. John McHugh's seat in GOP hands and, perhaps more importantly, deny the Obama administration a much-needed political victory.

"I think it’s now to a point where we’ve got to win the Republican seat; it’s not about liberal or conservative," said a GOP consultant. "It’s about if we don’t help (Hoffman) over the finish line, Owens is going to win."

"Dede’s out of it," the consultant continued. "The bottom has dropped out on her. She can’t win it. Looks like Sessions and the national Republicans are seeing that. It was a poor choice on Sessions' part to go with her in the first place."



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailyp ... z0VRth1nAb

Originally Posted by snakeoil

Originally Posted by Judy

What union is Ron McDougall associated with and what Unions support amnesty?!

The UAW is the same union Ron McDougall is active in and the UAW supports amnesty! You stated that Hoffman supports amnesty yet you support a candidate who is tied to ACORN via WFA and she has been endorsed by WFA twice in the past. The last time was in 2008 with Obama!

UAW statement:
"During 2008 the UAW will continue to work for fundamental reforms to our broken immigration system. We need to establish a system that is based on full, equal and enforceable rights for all workers, including immigrant and guest workers, and also includes a well-defined pathway for immigrant and guest workers to eventually adjust their status and become full fledged stakeholders in our nation".

http://www.uaw.org/cap/08/issues/issue09.php

snakeoil, the only time the WFP endorsed the candidate I support is when she had no opponent. Out of a term for Mayor and 6 elections for state representative, the WFP (Working Families Party) has never, not once, endorsed her when she had an opponent. When she had an opponent, they always in every case endorsed Dede Scozzafava's opponent.

As to the UAW statement, they aren't promoting more immigration, they're saying they want full, equal and enforceable rights for all workers, including immigrant and guests workers. That's legal immigrant and visa workers, so American workers aren't disadvantaged by lower paid foreign workers. Today, the laws are different on that. Take foreign teachers hired by the Baltimore School System from the Philippines at $17,000 less than American teachers, to work in the toughest most undesirable districts. What the UAW is talking about is enforcing our immigration laws where foreign workers, legal foreign workers, are paid the same pay for equal work. This does two things. One, it prevents wage deflation for American Workers and two, with no wage advantage to hire the foreign workers, industry, business and government won't hire the foreign worker, because without a wage savings, why would they? They have to pay expensive brokerage fees, fill out a bunch of paperwork, pay their transportation and relocation costs, deal with language and cultural issues, so if there is no wage advantage, hiring a foreign workers is suddenly disadvantageus to employers, rather than advantageous. I support this position.

Then once they're here, the UAW is saying give them a chance to become citizens if they want so once when they join the union, they're a member for a long time, not a member for 6 years and then sent back to their home countries when their visa expires. I do not support this position.

The UAW isn't taking the position they want more immigration or legalization of illegal aliens. They're talking about legal immigration that's being used by our major corporations through the various Visa programs to hire foreign workers at a discount and deflate US wages which the UAW would like to see come to an end, a position I agree with.

Hoffman on the other hand is talking about illegal immigration being legalized to create a path for "more people to enter the country -- and work here."

That's quite different than what the UAW is talking about seems to me. The UAW may support amnesty, I don't know, but that statement isn't about amnesty, that statement is about wages and rights of legal immigrants on visas and guest worker permits, and covers the 1,500,000 legal immigrants we allow to enter the US legally every year.

Anyway, I guess we'll find out Tuesday what the people of NY23 want and we'll live with their decision, whatever it turns out to be.

Originally Posted by Judy

http://www.doughoffmanforcongress.com/issues.html#immigration

In Conservative Candidate, Doug Hoffman's own words from his own website:

"Where do you stand on illegal immigration?

"There is no question that our immigration policies are flawed. The answer, though, is not to put up a wall and stop all immigration. The answer is to create an easier path for immigrants to enter the United States – and to work here – while at the same time getting tough on illegal immigrants who commit crimes."

Sound familiar? Straight out of the talking points of National Council of La Raza. So this should tell you straight-up where Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Tim Pawlenty, Rick Santorum, Fred Thompson, Glenn Beck and Mike Huckabee stand on illegal immigration.

We're in our Period of Ironies and Opposites, folks. Beware. Many of you have just espoused a no name from nowhere because a guy on the radio and another dude on TV told you "he's the man", when he is in fact a multi-millionaire globalist that supports the very action ALIPACers have been working their asses off for 6 years to stop.

You can not possibly want Doug Hoffman in the US Congress and be sincere about stopping illegal immigration, can you?

Judy, from your own post. Sound familiar? UAW has talking points straight from La Raza. What you quote about Hoffman supporting anmesty is the same thing from the quote I posted from the UAW! You can't call one candidate on amnesty without admitting the same exact stand and almost same wording from the UAW. Amnesty is amnesty.

Originally Posted by snakeoil

Originally Posted by Judy

http://www.doughoffmanforcongress.com/issues.html#immigration

In Conservative Candidate, Doug Hoffman's own words from his own website:

"Where do you stand on illegal immigration?

"There is no question that our immigration policies are flawed. The answer, though, is not to put up a wall and stop all immigration. The answer is to create an easier path for immigrants to enter the United States – and to work here – while at the same time getting tough on illegal immigrants who commit crimes."

Sound familiar? Straight out of the talking points of National Council of La Raza. So this should tell you straight-up where Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Tim Pawlenty, Rick Santorum, Fred Thompson, Glenn Beck and Mike Huckabee stand on illegal immigration.

We're in our Period of Ironies and Opposites, folks. Beware. Many of you have just espoused a no name from nowhere because a guy on the radio and another dude on TV told you "he's the man", when he is in fact a multi-millionaire globalist that supports the very action ALIPACers have been working their asses off for 6 years to stop.

You can not possibly want Doug Hoffman in the US Congress and be sincere about stopping illegal immigration, can you?

Judy, from your own post. Sound familiar? UAW has talking points straight from La Raza. What you quote about Hoffman supporting anmesty is the same thing from the quote I posted from the UAW! You can't call one candidate on amnesty without admitting the same exact stand and almost same wording from the UAW. Amnesty is amnesty.

No, it isn't the same wording snakeoil. The UAW statement doesn't say anything about "more people to enter--and work here". That is Hoffman's goal, more immigrant workers, that is not the UAW's goal. Hoffman's statement doesn't say anything about "a system based on full, equal and enforceable rights for workers", which is the main thrust of the UAW statement. Again, I don't know if the UAW supports amnesty or not, they may, and there may be another statement or position out there that would support that contention, but this statement isn't it.

And Dede isn't a member of the UAW. Her husband may be, but that doesn't mean she supports something just because he might. I'm very confident she's opposed to amnesty, she's law and order on her voting record, she's also a fiscal conservative on her voting record, she's also a Republican and will vote the party line on immigration issues.

It's a shame that such an important issue didn't get the attention in that race it deserved. Anyway, I guess we'll see what happens on Tuesday.

Originally Posted by snakeoil

Looks like she's done for anyway so this thread is moot.

October 30, 2009 11:03 AM 15 Comments
Scozzafava Collapses, Republicans Refocus »
By Elizabeth Benjamin

The events of the last 24 hours have pretty much clinched it: NY-23 is now officially a two-man race between the Democratic nominee Bill Owens and the Conservative Party upstart Doug Hoffman.

From NRCC Chairman Pete Sessions to former Gov. George Pataki to former Mayor Rudy Giuliani (through his operative, Jake Menges), Republicans are quickly abandoning their nominee, Assemblywoman Dede Scozzafava, and backing Hoffman in a last-ditch effort to keep former Rep. John McHugh's seat in GOP hands and, perhaps more importantly, deny the Obama administration a much-needed political victory.

"I think it’s now to a point where we’ve got to win the Republican seat; it’s not about liberal or conservative," said a GOP consultant. "It’s about if we don’t help (Hoffman) over the finish line, Owens is going to win."

"Dede’s out of it," the consultant continued. "The bottom has dropped out on her. She can’t win it. Looks like Sessions and the national Republicans are seeing that. It was a poor choice on Sessions' part to go with her in the first place."



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailyp ... z0VRth1nAb

If that's true, that's a real shame.

Yippee!! It's not over 'til its over:



http://24ahead.com/doug-hoffman-might-b ... orters-kno

"Doug Hoffman might be weak on immigration; do his supporters know he might cost them money?

"I'm not going to get into all of the issues surrounding the current race in upstate New York where conservative Doug Hoffman is battling against the establishment Republican candidate (Dede Scozzafava) and the Democrat (Bill Owens). However, Hoffman doesn't exactly appear to be Tom Tancredo when it comes to immigration issues, and this might be yet another example of the tea parties being useful idiots for someone whose actions will end up raising their taxes.

"From his site (link):

" Where do you stand on illegal immigration?
There is no question that our immigration policies are flawed. The answer, though, is not to put up a wall and stop all immigration. The answer is to create an easier path for immigrants to enter the United States - and to work here - while at the same time getting tough on illegal immigrants who commit crimes.

"The first sentence of his answer is the standard (and false) system is broken line used by hacks from San Diego to Lake Champlain; see the link for more. The second sentence is a false choice: few people are calling to "stop all immigration", and even those who are only want a moratorium and not a permanent cessation. The final sentence is almost assuredly code for some sort of guest workers program and probably is code for something akin to "deport the criminals first (and then amnesty)". The supposed conservative insurgent sounds more than a bit like George W Bush and others who supported some form of amnesty and guest worker programs. Now, maybe he just got tired and used boilerplate instead of actually coming up with a non-establishment GOP position, and if so he should specify exactly what he supports. Or, those in the area should go to his public appearances and ask him to specify what he supports.

"Also: Scozzafava doesn't appear to have her position on this issue on her site; the only thing I could find is:

"From dedeforcongress.com/news/read.aspx?id=5 comes this insignificant blurb:

"Conservatives for Dede Co-Chair Dwayne Martin said, "There are a lot of powerful interest groups in New York City and Washington, DC who think this race should be about their own national agenda — not about the issues that matter to us. Dede is a fiscal conservative with a record of creating jobs who will protect our Second Amendment rights, promote national security, reduce taxes and stand tough on illegal immigration. I have spent my career in law enforcement and I know that in Washington, Dede will support legislation to keep our families safe from criminals and terrorists at home and abroad. We are proud to strongly endorse her candidacy for the 23rd Congressional District."

_________________________________

I knew it! I knew it! Dede Scozzafava will "stand tough on illegal immigration".



Here's the entire news release:

"In The News

"Scozzafava Announces "Conservative for Dede"

"Friday, August 07, 2009

"Campaign Picks Up Support from Conservative Activists

"Dede Scozzafava, Republican and Independence Party candidate for the 23rd Congressional District, announced the formation of a grassroots conservative group that will support her bid to win the race for the 23rd Congressional District. The group "Conservatives for Dede" will work to organize Conservative activists across the district to knock on doors, make phone calls and "get out the vote" on Election Day. The group will be chaired by Dwayne Martin, a corrections officer in St. Lawrence County, and Donna Lawrence, owner of Lawrence Manor in Gouverneur.

"Conservatives for Dede Co-Chair Dwayne Martin said, "There are a lot of powerful interest groups in New York City and Washington, DC who think this race should be about their own national agenda — not about the issues that matter to us. Dede is a fiscal conservative with a record of creating jobs who will protect our Second Amendment rights, promote national security, reduce taxes and stand tough on illegal immigration. I have spent my career in law enforcement and I know that in Washington, Dede will support legislation to keep our families safe from criminals and terrorists at home and abroad. We are proud to strongly endorse her candidacy for the 23rd Congressional District."

""I am extremely honored and grateful for the support and encouragement that I have received from rank and file Conservatives," Scozzafava said. "I look forward to working with Conservatives across this district to promote our shared beliefs in individual rights and freedoms, lower taxes and spending, and a strong national defense."

"Martin added, "No one has their hooks in Dede Scozzafava. She has the integrity, strength of character and rugged independence that is unique to Northern New York. When she gets to Washington she will do what's right for the district."

"Co-Chair Donna Lawrence said, "As small business owners, we are worried that Washington has lost touch with just how difficult it is to run and grow a business. Too many in Washington believe that the best way to grow the economy is to replace individual initiative with a government program. We know that the best way to grow jobs and the economy is to protect our freedoms and empower the individual — it's the bedrock of conservative philosophy. Dede shares these beliefs and that's why we will be working hard to elect her as our representative."

""I look forward to campaigning with these common sense Conservative Party supporters and many more in the coming months to win this Congressional seat," said Scozzafava.

"Conservatives for Dede will also be setting up a Facebook page to encourage other Conservative Party members to join."

http://dedeforcongress.com/news/read.aspx?id=5
____________________________________