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  1. #11
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoe2
    If a large muscular man is charging at a smaller female officer, or even a smaller male officer, they have every right in the world to defend themselves with whatever is available to them.
    If they don't use a taser the alternative is a 9mm handgun, which tend to be very deadly much more often than a taser.
    Then, they need to defend themselves with hand to hand combat or use their mace or club if they don't think the "charge" warrants deadly force. If the "charge" warrants deadly force then they should pull their gun, use it and prepare to defend the shooting. In every instance I've read, the situation didn't warrant any force at all let alone, deadly force. Officers are using their Tasers to subdue and force compliance with instructions, not to protect themselves and doing so because the Taser company lied to shareholders and law enforcement for many years about the deadly nature of their stun guns claiming they were non-lethal weapons, when they are in fact lethal weapons and should not be used on unarmed civilians.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    . . . under our system of justice, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a trial in a court of law by a jury of peers . . .
    Only the court of law is required to consider a person innocent until proven guilty. People are free to think or believe anything they want.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    I bet this woman wishes the officers had used a taser on her.
    And of course she is innocent because she hasn't been to court yet.

    Long Beach Police shoot, kill female suspect who was stabbing man on Pine Avenue
    http://www.presstelegram.com/breakingnews/ci_17638721
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  4. #14
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    The taser is a good instrument for law enforcement and has saved many lives of officers whohave had to stop or disarm a suspect who is on drugs, drunk or has issues with authority. Some advocate the use of beanbags but they have a much lower percent of success as have the rubber bullets. The taser works effectivly and while it may seem to be more lethal it actually is about even compared to beanbags. It is found hitting aperson with the beanbags or rubber shot can cause broken bones, also heart stopage and death. Taser use is well regulated within the law enforcement community and its use are clearly guidelined. If it keeps out officers safe, protects the citizens of the community, stops the bad guys...then it should continue to be used.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDoe2
    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    . . . under our system of justice, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a trial in a court of law by a jury of peers . . .
    Only the court of law is required to consider a person innocent until proven guilty. People are free to think or believe anything they want.
    Well, that is "our system of justice", isn't it? The justice system established of, by and for the people of the United States?
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  6. #16
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillCunnane
    The taser is a good instrument for law enforcement and has saved many lives of officers whohave had to stop or disarm a suspect who is on drugs, drunk or has issues with authority. Some advocate the use of beanbags but they have a much lower percent of success as have the rubber bullets. The taser works effectivly and while it may seem to be more lethal it actually is about even compared to beanbags. It is found hitting aperson with the beanbags or rubber shot can cause broken bones, also heart stopage and death. Taser use is well regulated within the law enforcement community and its use are clearly guidelined. If it keeps out officers safe, protects the citizens of the community, stops the bad guys...then it should continue to be used.
    I got to go with you on this one.
    P.D.s don't want their officers going hand to hand with people
    If the officer gets killed or injured you can't go back and redo it.
    If an officer uses a baton and anyone gets a video of it the officer gets hit with an excessive force lawsuit.
    Mace often doesn't affect people on drugs or with mental conditions.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    Border Patrol Beats a Man to Death

    By DEE MOORE

    SAN DIEGO (CN) - Two dozen Border Patrol agents beat a man to death at the San Ysidro Port of entry while onlookers screamed for them to stop, his family says in Federal Court.

    "At one point, there were approximately 20 to 25 agents taking part in beating, kicking or punching Mr. [Anastacio] Hernandez-Rojas ..." the complaint states. "The beating continued for several minutes. At some point, federal officer Doe 3 pulled out a Taser and fired it at Mr. Hernandez-Rojas while he lay beaten on the ground. He discharged the Taser several times. Mr. Hernandez-Rojas stopped screaming after being Tased.

    "Paramedics arrived on scene. By the time of their arrival Mr. Hernandez had not been breathing for at least 8 minutes. Mr. Hernandez-Rojas was transported to Sharp Chula Vista [hospital] and pronounced brain dead.

    "The San Diego County Office of the Medical Examiner determined that the cause of death was anoxic encephalopathy, caused by physical altercation with law enforcement. The Medical concluded the manner of death to be a homicide."

    Hernandez-Rojas was detained at or around the Border Patrol's "Barracks Five" on May 28, 2010. Hernandez, 42, originally from San Luis Potosi, Mexico, had lived in San Diego County for 20 years with his common-law wife and their five children, according to the complaint. He was a construction worker.

    After arresting him, a Border Patrol agent "in the presence of witnesses ... became angry and pushed Mr. Hernandez-Rojas against a wall, and spread his legs by kicking his ankles apart," the complaint states.

    One of Hernandez's ankles was held together with surgical screws, and he "explained the injury to Doe 1, including that there were screws in the ankle and begged for Doe 1 to stop kicking his legs. He was weeping in pain."

    But the Border Patrol denied him medical assistance and Doe 1, aided by another agent, Doe 2, "drove him to the San Ysidro Port of Entry," according to the complaint.

    "At the Port of Entry, up to 20 to 25 federal agents beat Mr. Hernandez-Rojas while he lay helpless on the ground.

    "Federal agents were on top of Mr. Hernandez-Rojas' back, stepping on the backs of his knees and punching his ribs. Bystanders screamed for the agents to 'stop beating him.'"

    But the beating continued until Doe 3 Tasered him and he lay still, the complaint states.

    His widow and five children seek punitive damages for wrongful death, assault and battery, civil and constitutional violations, and other charges.
    They are represented by Eugene Iredale and Guadalupe Valencia.

    http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/03/18/35031.htm
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  8. #18
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    This man should have not fought with police but he was jacked up on drugs.The officer had no choice but to use his taser they where out of bean bags.The drugs is what stop the heart.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckman
    This man should have not fought with police but he was jacked up on drugs.The officer had no choice but to use his taser they where out of bean bags.The drugs is what stop the heart.
    The Taser stopped the heart which stopped the oxygen supply to the brain which caused the death. The reason a person stops moving when being Tased is because the electrocution of the Taser stops the heart which stops the brain which stops the body.

    I'm surprised so many people who support Tasers don't know how they work. I'ts why they always aim for the heart area.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    THIS IS WHY AGENCIES DON'T WANT THEIR EMPOLYEES GOING HANDS ON WITH PEOPLE.

    State police arrest of immigrant suspect investigated

    Posted at: 03/18/2011 8:42 PM
    By: Gadi Schwartz, KOB Eyewitness News 4

    Police dash camera video captures a New Mexico State police officer and two state police criminal agents punching, Tasering and smashing an immigrant's head into the ground during an investigation that has now been tossed out of court.

    On Friday, Rio Arriba Magistrate Judge Joseph Madrid dismissed a slew of charges against Julio Caballero, a Mexican national living in Espanola, after problems with the way the charges were filed.

    Caballero faced three counts of battery against a police officer and three counts of resisting arrest, as well as an open container violation that the prosecution admitted was a mistake.

    The charges stem from an incident last October in which state police investigators showed up to Caballero's home in Espanola without a warrant, accompanied by a man who claimed Caballero was extorting his wife.

    State police began to question Caballero and when Caballero presented them with his license, police ordered him to hand over cash.

    The video shows Caballero try to put his money back in his pocket and officers take him to the ground. For almost four minutes, the officers are seen sitting on Caballero, punching him and at one point appear to hit him with a flashlight while Caballero struggles and screams.

    Minutes into the struggle, Caballero is seen pushing an officer with his leg. Officers respond by Tasering Caballero repeatedly while he is on the ground in handcuffs.

    Throughout the confrontation, Caballero is heard asking the officers in Spanish why they are arresting him and why they are trying to take away his money.

    When Caballero is taken to the police car he is heard asking officers why they are taking his money.

    Caballeros attorney, A.J. Salazar, says when Caballero asked about his money again he was kicked in the groin and told by an officer, "You got it? You gonna follow directions now?" and told to keep his mouth shut.

    Salazar says Caballero's money was eventually returned.

    KOB Eyewitness News 4 called the acting State Police Chief Robert Shilling for comment.

    Shilling said he had seen the video and internal affairs investigators are now looking into the case.

    Salazar said Caballero is considering filing a civil lawsuit.

    http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S202 ... ml?cat=504
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