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  1. #11
    Senior Member uniteasone's Avatar
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    Maybe we should just declare war on Mexico and get this all over with,once and for all
    "When you have knowledge,you have a responsibility to do better"_ Paula Johnson

    "I did then what I knew to do. When I knew better,I did better"_ Maya Angelou

  2. #12
    Senior Member dragonfire's Avatar
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    America's Third War: Is the U.S. Arming Mexican Cartels?

    America's Third War: Is the U.S. Arming Mexican Cartels?

    By William La Jeunesse
    Published April 28, 2011

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/28/am ... n-cartels/

    If you ever watch video or look at pictures of the drug war in Mexico, you'll notice some pretty heavy weapons. This is a war being waged with rockets and plastic explosives, not pea shooters and Saturday Night Specials.

    Consider these incidents:

    - A M26A2 fragmentation grenade used against a U.S. Consulate in Mexico in 2008

    - Explosive projectiles and 21 grenades found during a raid in Guadalupe

    - An unexploded grenade and pull ring used to attack a TV station in Monterrey

    - Automatic weapons, including U.S.-made M16s found at a cartel crime scene in May 2009

    - U.S. military-issued ammunition found in a cartel raid in Reynosa in November 2008

    You can't buy this stuff at a U.S. gun store. So where do the cartels get it? According to leaked diplomatic cables, there are three sources.

    1. U.S. Defense Department shipments to Latin America, known and tracked by the U.S. State Department as "foreign military sales."

    2. Weapons ordered by the Mexican government, tracked by the State Department as "direct commercial sales."

    3. Aging, but plentiful arsenals of military weapon stores in Honduras, Guatemala and Nicaragua.

    Even though these facts were well-known by the Obama administration, including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Attorney General Eric Holder, it blamed much of the violence in Mexico on U.S. gun stores.

    "More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our border," President Obama said in February 2009.

    That was contested, but few listened to gun store owners and former vets like Lynn Kartchner, owner of Allsafe Security, a gun shop in Douglas, Ariz.

    "We in the gun industry knew from day one the allegations that the preponderance of sales came from gun stores like this one was totally not true," Kartchner said.

    In fact, many of these weapons are getting to Mexico via the U.S.
    government.

    Tens of thousands of firearms and explosives are sold legally through the U.S. State Department to the Mexican government.

    These weapons are then funneled to the traffickers and cartels by corrupt officials within the Mexico Ministry of Defense and local and state police departments.

    According to State Department documents, in 2009 Mexico bought nearly $177 million worth of American-made weapons, exceeding sales to Iraq and Afghanistan. That number includes $20 million in semi- and fully automatic weapons.

    "Most of the M16s were sold legally to the Mexican government and disappeared," Kartchner added.

    State Department cables obtained by WikiLeaks confirm that fear. One cable from November 2009 reads "U.S. law enforcement has fair reason to worry a number of weapons simply disappear... "

    Another from June 2009 says, "Rogue elements of the Guatemalan military are selling weapons to narcos."

    “These are weapons that have been stockpiled either through U.S. aid programs or currently being shipped there under the guise of military support," said a confidential informant in Arizona who has worked for federal agencies such as the FBI, ATF and DEA.

    "The governments and military in those countries realize that the economy is such that they are far better off to push these weapons north and sell them than they are to keep them in their own arsenals and reserves," he said.

    Evidence of that is also contained in the Small Arms Survey. The table shows U.S. government sales of rifles, machine guns and handguns in the hundreds of thousands over a five-year period number.

    And a GAO report http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d10952.pdf
    from last year details both foreign military and direct commercial sales of arms from 2005 to 2009.

    After looking at a warehouse full of high-powered weapons, allegedly stolen by a corrupt Mexican federal police officer, the informant said it was obvious to him that such weapons did not come from the "mom and pop" gun stores identified by the administration.
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALIPAC
    By constitution be president must be father and mother citizen and for five generation,democrat party is must destroit from political view.

  4. #14
    Senior Member RonLaws's Avatar
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    Mexico is in civil war and is imploding -- and it is sad and there are multiple reasons. Which is more reason for the U.S. to put U.S. Troops on the Border to contain that war destruction -- yes militarize the Border. Tell Calderon -- sorry, just gotta do it.

    A bad effect also is that it is also likely driving more illegal Aliens across the Border.

    Meanwhile WE keep giving Mexico $$Billions!!

    Thought: The Mexico-U.S. relationship amounts to this now : About 10 People in the U.S. govt. talking with and relating with about 10 people in the Mexico govt -- they have nice State dinner meeting where they talk about how they can manipulate the American People and the Mexican People for profit and NAU stuff. Yes the meeting includes the richest man in the world, telecom giant, Carlos Slim(?) Meanwhile all the People and all the other officials and organizations in both countries dislike (hate) each other...

    Now confirmed -- NAFTA and free trade (trade designed to profit the wealthy big corps at expense of people) is a failure. NAFTA -- where are those million jobs Clinton promised?? Yes, trade occurs -- the U.S. gets oil and tequila from mexico --- the American People and the Mexican People have been ripped off. Mexico's agriculture industry was hurt by NAFTA -- many farmers turn to drug crops and the workers became illegal Aliens at U.S. farms.....

  5. #15
    Senior Member RonLaws's Avatar
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    Paul Revere9 commented, "Also, I am betting that the ATF gun running scam was specifically done to undermine the 2nd Amendment of our constitution by giving Mexico a reason to sue the U S... "

    YES Paul Revere9!! -- there is much to be very vigilant about here! This brings to thought a red alert situation:


    There is suspect to things going on here:
    We all seem to get suspicion that persons in our government want to create some kind of crisis on the Border (god forbid something crazy) so they can take action into an opportunity -- to well, we all know from Open Border jerks -- do away with the Border (or essentially so by some "guest-worker" agreement).

    This ATF scandal points to that direction while simultaneously going after/disarming Americans out of the 2nd Amendment (end-run around 2nd Amendment). See how rotten and twisted Obama Admin is in doing double edged two-faced actions to accomplish assualt on Americans and U.S. Constitution freedoms meanwhile under the guise.... of going after the drug cartels (acting like the good guy -- ya know for Americans security and safety--and being kind to our neighbor Mexico).

    I suggest and fellow Americans be vigilant---Here is scenario we see being constructed here:

    In a name "justice" of wanting to ensnare or trace drug cartels weapons for crime arrests, the ATF tells American gundealers to sell there guns to drug cartels via and with ATF help. The ATF also is the exact agency that hands out firearm selling license permits to U.S. gundealers and therefore has a coercion threat on the gundealers livelihood. The gundealers are then entrapped by the ATF and the 'gunwalking' occurs over the Border to the cartels. The ATF then accuses U.S. gundealers as a cause to violence in Mexico (this is what is then propagandized in media and to U.S. officials) so that then the 2nd Amendment can then be infringed on and also make the U.S. look bad "for being so mean to poor little illegal immigrants and Mexico"-- and this was stated as an objective in the Border States -- was a gun registration requirement for any person buying 2 or more guns at a show or store -- registration -- meaning getting the owners info-- for whatever purpose....

    previous article: ((As the Obama administration is poised to enact a sweeping infringement of the right of Americans to keep and bear arms in the states bordering Mexico, the only thing which may stand in the way is not the Republican-dominated House of Representatives, but the Federal Paperwork Reduction Act.
    The scale of the revision in U.S. law which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (still known as ATF) is contemplating is breathtaking; as noted in a recent Reuters article: “The measure would require around 8,500 gun dealers in Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas to report sales of two or more high-powered semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines to the same person within a five-day period.

  6. #16
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    Sounds like Chicago Politics to me. ATF encourages gun stores to sell guns illegally with promises to track the guns. ATF does not track guns. American Border Agent is murdered with one of the guns. D.O.J. refuses the release information on ATF activity in Operation Gun Runner. They are trying to take our guns,with to much resistance. The easy way to do it is have corrupt mexico to do the dirty work for them. D.O.J. will not get involved? Bankrupt gum companies. Smart move hussein obana!! This is the biggest crock of S--- to hit the fan yet!!

  7. #17
    Senior Member forest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBorn
    Mexico files a lawsuit against U.S. Gun Industry??

    Pretty funny, huh?
    Yup... and the circus goes on....
    As Aristotle said, “Tolerance and apathy are the first virtue of a dying civilization.

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