Thread: Mexico president following California marijuana vote: state lawmaker

The State of Texas has executed 534 people since 1982;

of these, 279 occurred during the administration of Texas Governor Rick Perry (2001-2014), more than any other governor in U.S. history.

Executions peaked in Texas in 2000, when 40 people were put to death.

In 2015, the State of Texas executed 13 people ...

Texas Death Penalty Facts - TCADP

tcadp.org/get-informed/texas-death-penalty-facts/

pkskyali (excerpt):

The legalization of marijuana also means the death of the whole marijuana subculture which owes its vitality to its outlaw status. Marijuana consumption will go down as commercial production and distribution take over.

I found your suggestion that marijuana consumption would reduce with legalization a little hard to swallow, so I did some checking. The very first article I read disputes that notion.

Excerpt:

Use among people aged 18 and older from 2011-2013 in Colorado and Washington has risen about 3 percentage points, from roughly 16 to 19 percent and from 15 to 18 percent, respectively, SAM said, citing federal data. The national average is about 12 percent.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-bad-idea.html

Oh, and a few other articles I read stated that black market marijuana sellers were thriving in the states that legalized marijuana. Since the black market sellers don't tax it, it can be sold cheaper, which means the poor are still buying from the black market. So no, the cartels are not being put out of business.

7 Harmful Side Effects Pot Legalization Has Caused in Colorado

Cully Stimson / @cullystimson / August 20, 2014

There is more bad news out of Colorado regarding the negative impact of marijuana legalization.
As I reported a few weeks ago, some professors published a peer-reviewed article on the negative social costs to outright legalization. I noted that although overall traffic fatalities in Colorado have gone down since 2007, they went up by 100 percent for operators testing positive for marijuana—from 39 in 2007 to 78 in 2012. (Colorado legalized marijuana for medical usage in 2009, before legalizing marijuana for other uses in 2012.) Furthermore, in 2007, those pot-positive drivers represented only 7 percent of total fatalities in Colorado, but in 2012 they represented 16 percent of total Colorado fatalities.

Now, there is even more proof from Colorado that legalizing pot, as I have argued before, is terrible public policy.

This new report paints an even bleaker picture of what is happening in Colorado since it legalized the possession, sale, and consumption of marijuana.

According to the new report by the Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area entitled “The Legalization of Marijuana in Colorado: The Impact,” the impact of legalized marijuana in Colorado has resulted in:

1. The majority of DUI drug arrests involve marijuana and 25 to 40 percent were marijuana alone.

2. In 2012, 10.47 percent of Colorado youth ages 12 to 17 were considered current marijuana users compared to 7.55 percent nationally. Colorado ranked fourth in the nation, and was 39 percent higher than the national average.

3. Drug-related student suspensions/expulsions increased 32 percent from school years 2008-09 through 2012-13, the vast majority were for marijuana violations.

4. In 2012, 26.81 percent of college age students were considered current marijuana users compared to 18.89 percent nationally, which ranks Colorado third in the nation and 42 percent above the national average.

5. In 2013, 48.4 percent of Denver adult arrestees tested positive for marijuana, which is a 16 percent increase from 2008.

6. From 2011 through 2013 there was a 57 percent increase in marijuana-related emergency room visits.

7. Hospitalizations related to marijuana has increased 82 percent since 2008.

The report includes other data about the negative effect of legalizing marijuana in Colorado, including marijuana-related exposure to children, treatment, the flood of marijuana in and out of Colorado, the dangers of pot extraction labs and other disturbing factual trends.

Don’t expect this data to impact the push to legalize pot in Colorado, or elsewhere for that matter. Big pot is big business, and the push to legalize is really all about profit, despite inconvenient facts.

Drug policy should be based on hard science and reliable data. And the data coming out of Colorado points to one and only one conclusion: the legalization of marijuana in the state is terrible public policy.

http://dailysignal.com/2014/08/20/7-...used-colorado/

The states and feds want the tax monies collected...and it is a n enormous amount of $$$$. An interview with a Ca 2 dispensary owner revealed he paid millions to the state and IRS yearly.

Legalize Marijuana Tax Revenue - Huffington Post

www.huffingtonpost.com/news/legalize-marijuana-tax-revenue/

The Huffington Post


Pot Legalization Would Generate Billions In Tax Revenue. The Huffington Post ... Legalizing Marijuana Would Raise $1.4 Billion Says CA Tax Board. . .

Originally Posted by JohnDoe2

Legalize Marijuana Tax Revenue - Huffington Post

www.huffingtonpost.com/news/legalize-marijuana-tax-revenue/

The Huffington Post


Pot Legalization Would Generate Billions In Tax Revenue. The Huffington Post ... Legalizing Marijuana Would Raise $1.4 Billion Says CA Tax Board. . .

Some things are more important than money.

Originally Posted by MW

pkskyali (excerpt):

I found your suggestion that marijuana consumption would reduce with legalization a little hard to swallow, so I did some checking. The very first article I read disputes that notion.

Excerpt:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-bad-idea.html

Oh, and a few other articles I read stated that black market marijuana sellers were thriving in the states that legalized marijuana. Since the black market sellers don't tax it, it can be sold cheaper, which means the poor are still buying from the black market. So no, the cartels are not being put out of business.

MW, the only reason you are seeing those numbers change is because more people are willing to admit they use the stuff. The actual use is most certainly going down. As the years go by, you will see this is hard to contradict. Sure the black market still exists for tax free marijuana just like there is a black market for tax free tobacco and alcohol. The problem is that the black market has not been confronted like alcohol and tobacco are confronted with the ATF. It is still being confronted with the old and increasingly obsolete DEA and local police. These agencies are confused and demoralized about what to do. There are also the surrounding states which naturally pick up a lot black market trade coming out the legalized states.

Also, an issue not being confronted is the source of the marijuana in the legalized states. The growers are still stuck in the illegal-grows mode. Before you know it somebody will start growing the stuff out of doors again and from there agriculture takes over and the "artisan" growers fall out of fashion. Everyone could restrict their diet to their favorite strain of tomato too, but not when you can get the stuff canned on your local grocery store shelves.

pkskyali wrote (excerpt):

MW, the only reason you are seeing those numbers change is because more people are willing to admit they use the stuff. The actual use is most certainly going down.

I would be eager to read any documented evidence you have to substantiate your claim that legalizing marijuana reduces its use. To my way of thinking, such an assertion doesn't make logical sense. However, with the exception of an opinion, I'm willing to read any legitimate offerings on the subject that would support your claim.

Now, I can see the potential of what you're saying if all black markets were completely eliminated. The reduction may be possible in such a scenario because of cost. The high taxes on marijuana cold make it cost prohibitive for the poor. However, I can't picture a scenario where the black markets will be eliminated. As long as the illegal drug distributors can sell the product for less than the legal distributors, an illegal market will continue and consumption use will not be reduced.

Originally Posted by MW

I would be eager to read any documented evidence you have to substantiate your claim that legalizing marijuana reduces its use. To my way of thinking, such an assertion doesn't make logical sense. However, with the exception of an opinion, I'm willing to read any legitimate offerings on the subject that would support your claim.

Now, I can see the potential of what you're saying if all black markets were completely eliminated. The reduction may be possible in such a scenario because of cost. The high taxes on marijuana cold make it cost prohibitive for the poor. However, I can't picture a scenario where the black markets will be eliminated. As long as the illegal drug distributors can sell the product for less than the legal distributors, an illegal market will continue and consumption use will not be reduced.

You have to step back and really decide what it is you think has to be done about recreational drugs. They are here to stay, we are never going to get rid of them and there are always going to be a part of population who is going to get caught up with them.

It is exactly like alcohol and tobacco. In the case of alcohol, governments that try to purge it from society are otherwise unfit to govern as we in the case of Muslim countries. And as we also saw during our own era of Prohibition. Tobacco was a new problem for Europeans that came with the European discovery of the Americas. This is another proven plague that we are struggling to overcome. Tobacco is an excellent model for confronting marijuana.

There are several differences. Tobacco is a fussy plant to grow and requires the right kind of climate to grow. It also requires a fussy fermentation process that escapes the understanding of most people who try to grow it themselves, and you can grow it yourself, there are no legal obstacles.

Also, tobacco as a drug has a rather elusive intoxicating effect, it has not ever been promoted or distributed based on how it effects the user. Despite that, it is a highly addictive drug as marijuana is not. And also, it is an extremely dangerous drug, and understood completely to be a carcinogen and a threat to cardiovascular health. Finally, tobacco as an agricultural product has no other uses.

Marijuana can be grown just about anywhere by anyone and processing marijuana for consumption is as easy as drying it out. Marijuana is consumed strictly for its intoxicating effect and has never been promoted for any other purpose of consumption. Marijuana as a drug can clearly be a behavioral problem, but there are no medical consequences to compare with that of tobacco and reports to the contrary are bogus. Also bogus are the claims to medical benefits from marijuana. And finally, marijuana has a proven economic benefit as a source of plant fiber. It is our best source of plant fiber, superior even to cotton as a practical if not aesthetic matter.

We are not going to wipe out the black market. But we can destroy the international black market and reduce it to starvation wages instead making it into a major economic force. It is not necessary to legalize marijuana to starve out the black market, decriminalization would do the job. But because of the quacks running our medical establishment, the medical dispensaries have made simple decriminalization impossible and the only alternative is legalization. This will destroy the medical dispensaries and demoralize the outlaw subculture that promotes the coveted image of marijuana consumption. This is on its way and if you don't like it, there is not much you can do about it. Common sense will prevail.

It would be interesting to see what a Trump presidency does about this. Let's hope he makes it, I think that his law and order claims also means better laws, especially regarding the Drug War.

The legalization of marijuana for recreational use will be on the ballot on Nov. 8 in California, Nevada, Arizona, Massachusetts and Maine.

Legalization for medical use will also be on the ballot in Florida, Missouri and Arkansas on that same day.