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  1. #1
    Senior Member curiouspat's Avatar
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    Poll, 5:55 PM Fast please!

    Hi folks, Please take this poll, fast....

    Friday, June 2, 2006
    7NEWS Interactive

    http://www2.wsvn.com/polls/main/MI21623/


    Should students be required to stand and recite the Pledge Of Allegiance?

    Yes
    No





    I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!
    TIME'S UP!
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    Why should <u>only</u> AMERICAN CITIZENS and LEGAL immigrants, have to obey the law?!

  2. #2
    Senior Member lsmith1338's Avatar
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    Done I voted yes
    Freedom isn't free... Don't forget the men who died and gave that right to all of us....
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  3. #3
    Senior Member nittygritty's Avatar
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    Done, yes, of course.
    Build the dam fence post haste!

  4. #4
    Senior Member LegalUSCitizen's Avatar
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    What a stupid question. Figures it would come from Miami !! OF COURSE they should stand and recite the pledge at school !!
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  5. #5
    Senior Member curiouspat's Avatar
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    Thanks, they'll close it at ~6:50 PM EST. Will get story and let you know!
    TIME'S UP!
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    Why should <u>only</u> AMERICAN CITIZENS and LEGAL immigrants, have to obey the law?!

  6. #6
    Senior Member curiouspat's Avatar
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    poll CLOSED

    OK, folks.

    Thanks for your quick response.

    Friday, June 2, 2006
    7NEWS Interactive

    http://www2.wsvn.com/polls/main/MI21623/


    Should students be required to stand and recite the Pledge Of Allegiance?

    Yes 77%
    No 23%

    The station did NOT give total votes.

    They have NOT posted the story. I will look for it tonight and tomorrow and post HERE when I have it.

    Basically, a student REFUSED to stand and pledge our beloved flag. A teacher took exception. The Federal Judge agreed with the ACLU and the student (and parents) that this is a 'freedom of speech' issue and that the state cannot force a person to say what he doesn't want to say. The student was awarded (if I heard right) $32,000.

    This had nothing to do with 'Under God'. He just didn't WANT to.

    I think they said this was Palm Beach County (not sure). I was shocked when they said that now students will not be required to stand and say the pledge, as it already is in Miami-Dade and Broward Counties.

    They also interviewed Gov. Jeb Bush, who indicated that students have a right of choice here, and that they weren't going to waste time on the subject. I WILL TRY TO GET THE VIDEO LINK, SO YOU CAN HEAR IT FOR YOURSELVES.

    I don't watch this station...was just channel surfing. The only reason that I'm watching the MSM is because I'm being a pest about illegal aliens and I'm watching for cracks in their coverage so that I can attempt to widen those cracks!

    Again, thanks for your help.

    You know, it NEVER would have occurred to any of us in my classes when I was a kid, to show disrespect to our flag!
    TIME'S UP!
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    Why should <u>only</u> AMERICAN CITIZENS and LEGAL immigrants, have to obey the law?!

  7. #7
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    Basically, a student REFUSED to stand and pledge our beloved flag. A teacher took exception. The Federal Judge agreed with the ACLU and the student (and parents) that this is a 'freedom of speech' issue and that the state cannot force a person to say what he doesn't want to say. The student was awarded (if I heard right) $32,000.
    If you heard right this is just beyond stupid. Somebody needs to ask this kid what flag he does like and send him there, he certainly does not need to stay here. And why would anyone award this kid $32,000 (if you heard correctly). I would like to know who the judge in this case was also if you find out. I would like to give him a few choice words.

    This is what I mean when I do not know how much good it would do to try taking our case to federal court. The courts are just as corrupt as the government.

  8. #8
    Senior Member curiouspat's Avatar
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    Judge says students don't need OK to skip pledge

    Found it. Mods, if I shouldn't have put this here, please move it and let me know. Since my local poll is closed, I think this is ok. However, you will note a poll on the piece.

    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/pbccentral ... _0602.html

    Judge says students don't need OK to skip pledge
    By Rani Gupta

    Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

    Friday, June 02, 2006
    WEST PALM BEACH — A federal judge has declared a state law requiring students to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional, stating it violated the rights of a Palm Beach County student who sued the state last year.

    U.S. District Judge Kenneth L. Ryskamp also ruled unconstitutional the provision of the 1942 Florida law requiring students to obtain permission from their parents to be excused from reciting the pledge.


    [quote:cgpyf743]
    Should students be required to recite the Pledge of Allegiance?
    Yes
    No
    Voter Limit: Once per Day
    View Poll Results
    The American Civil Liberties Union cheered Ryskamp's decision as a landmark ruling that upholds all Florida students' free speech rights.

    "The highest tradition of being an American is freedom of thought and freedom of speech," ACLU attorney James Green said Thursday. "Freedom of speech includes the right to speak and the right not to speak, and not to be forced to speak in a certain way."

    But conservative legislators decried the decision, which they said was an assault by "liberal" and "activist" judges on the beliefs of the majority.

    State Sen. Mike Fasano, R-New Port Richey, called the decision "ludicrous." Fasano this year spearheaded an unsuccessful attempt to ask Florida voters to decide whether the state constitution should require students to stand and recite the pledge. Students would have needed a parent's permission to be excused.

    "What a federal judge has done is taken away patriotism from our schools," Fasano said.

    In December, Boynton Beach High School junior Cameron Frazier, 17, sued the state Department of Education, the Palm Beach County School Board, a teacher and an assistant principal, saying his rights were violated when the teacher berated him in front of his class when he refused to stand for the pledge.

    The school board in February agreed to pay Frazier $32,500, a decision that drew vehement criticism from some parents and veterans groups. Board members also decided students did not have to stand for the pledge and did not need parental permission to opt out, saying they had been following state law in crafting their policy.

    The school district's settlement was dependent on a judge declaring the law unconstitutional.

    Ryskamp ordered the school district to halt the policy, but school district spokesman Nat Harrington said the ruling would have little impact because district schools already have posted notices to that effect. Ryskamp's order also requires the district to remove the policy from its student handbooks, which Harrington said is "in the works."

    "We have already implemented many aspects of that," Harrington said of Ryskamp's order, which is dated Wednesday.

    State Department of Education spokeswoman Cathy Schroeder said department attorneys will review the decision to decide whether to appeal.

    "Of course, we're disappointed with the decision," she said.

    In his decision, Ryskamp cited a 1943 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that a West Virginia law requiring students to salute and pledge to the flag violated their First and 14th Amendment rights.

    Since that case, Ryskamp stated, "federal courts have established a body of case law that irrefutably recognizes the right of students to remain silent and seated during the pledge."

    State lawyers had argued that striking down the Florida law would violate parents' constitutional rights, citing a 2004 case in which the U.S. Supreme Court rejected a California father's plea to strike the words "under God" from the pledge.

    But Ryskamp said that decision didn't support the state's "novel legal assertions" and in fact recognized the ability of a student to assert constitutional rights.

    But the justices decided the father, Michael Newdow, lacked the standing to represent his daughter in court because he didn't have custody of her.

    Ryskamp also rejected the state's argument that Frazier and the school board were misinterpreting the law, which state lawyers claimed allowed students to sit during the pledge with permission.

    State Sen. Ken Pruitt, R-Port St. Lucie, said the decision was "typical of the ACLU and activist judges combining to create another hit at our traditional values of our country."

    "To let a 6- or 7- or 8-year-old decide, whether or not they have parental permission, is insane," he said.

    Pruitt this year sent letters to state Republicans seeking contributions for what he called a fight by the "anti-God left" against the pledge. State Democrats have said Republicans are exploiting the pledge lawsuit for fund-raising purposes.

    Fasano's bill died in Pruitt's committee, but Pruitt said Ryskamp's decision would have meant that such a law would be overturned anyway because federal rulings trump state law. He said a nationwide grass-roots effort is needed to "stop the insanity," though he could not detail what such an effort would entail.

    Frazier could not be reached for comment Thursday, but he has said in a statement that he is patriotic and believes the meaning of the flag has been tarnished by the "recent policies of our government."

    The ACLU emphasized that its challenge never sought to remove the pledge from the classroom, nor did it seek to change its content. Green said the case was about students' rights to "speak or not to speak."

    "We all have an affirmed First Amendment right to pray to God and to pledge allegiance to the flag," he said. "All this decision says is that if we don't want to pledge allegiance to the flag, we don't have to and if we're students, we don't need our parents' permission not to recite the pledge."[/quote:cgpyf743]
    TIME'S UP!
    **********
    Why should <u>only</u> AMERICAN CITIZENS and LEGAL immigrants, have to obey the law?!

  9. #9
    Senior Member curiouspat's Avatar
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    Poll from above site.

    Here's their current poll results. I voted YES.

    Should students be required to recite the Pledge of Allegiance?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Yes 65.34% 820
    No 34.66% 435


    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/pbccentral ... _0602.html
    TIME'S UP!
    **********
    Why should <u>only</u> AMERICAN CITIZENS and LEGAL immigrants, have to obey the law?!

  10. #10
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    Should students be required to recite the Pledge of Allegiance?
    Yes 65.19% 824
    No 34.81% 440
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