Thread: N.C. students' undocumented status a barrier to higher educa

http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=N ... le&sid=447

6/5/2005
By VERONICA GONZALEZ
The Lexington Star
Topics: in-state tuition, illegal aliens, immigrants, laws, crimes, guilt trips, incentives, taxes, democrat, republican
Luis Sanchez has his future all sketched out...

Read the latest headlines about illegal immigration.

A pencil drawing the 17-year-old Pender County senior created depicts Luis as a young boy wearing a cap and gown, symbols of his academic aspirations.

In the background of the picture are images of his life as a farm worker, a past he wants to leave behind.

"I worked in a nursery," he said, switching easily between Spanish and English as he reviewed his resume and portfolio of drawings and paintings. "I don't want to do that. That's why I'm pursuing a higher education than what my parents have, so I don't work at a place like that, so I can get a better job, have a better life."

The real picture of his life, however, remains incomplete. Luis, whose parents brought him here from Mexico when he was 7, is among an estimated 1,300 undocumented students in the state who face steep obstacles on their paths to college, including restrictive graduation rules and expensive tuition.

For Luis, whose father works in landscaping and mother works in a factory, the cost of college, at out-of-state rates, is daunting. Attending a university, for now, is out of the question. The University of North Carolina's 16 campuses allow undocumented residents to earn degrees as long as they pay the out-of-state price tag. At the University of North Carolina-Wilmington, annual out-of-state tuition is $11,638, compared with $1,928 for in-state tuition.

Compounding the financial burden is the fact that undocumented residents can't qualify for state or federal financial aid.

North Carolina legislators have been considering a proposal that would allow undocumented residents to pay for college at in-state tuition rates. Students would have to attend a state high school for four years to qualify. The proposal, HB 1183, is stuck in an education committee and appears unlikely to succeed. It's the second time such a plan has been introduced. Opponents of the measure worry that it will make the state more attractive for undocumented migrants and add to overcrowding. Proponents contend that easing access to higher education for these students is a worthy investment for the state.

However, even if costs were lowered, students find that, at some colleges, the price of graduation also includes a green card. Recent rules allow each college to decide the amount of access it wants to offer undocumented students. Cape Fear Community College, for example, won't let them graduate; Brunswick and James Sprunt community colleges will. School officials in Pender County and other areas grapple with how to help kids like Luis gain access to affordable college education.

"We felt like they were such a part of our community," said Meredith Hobson, who coordinates programs at Pender County Schools for migrant education and English as a second language. "They do so much for our schools ... and now, all of a sudden, they're not being treated like all of our kids."

Last summer, the N.C. Community College System, which is made up of the state's 58 community colleges, allowed each school to decide whether to admit undocumented residents into degree program. The college system doesn't track how many schools allow undocumented residents to earn a degree, said Ken Whitehurst, associate vice president for academic and student services.

The schools in the University of North Carolina system also changed their policies last year to allow admission to undocumented residents who have graduated from U.S. high schools. However, these students must pay out-of-state tuition.

Cape Fear Community College doesn't allow undocumented residents to earn degrees, although they can take continuing education and English as a second language classes.

CFCC officials say that, among other things, the policy prevents overcrowding.

"Our mission is to provide training to citizens of New Hanover and Pender County, and it's unfortunate for the folks who are not U.S. citizens," said David Hardin, a spokesman for the college.

The issue of access to higher education for undocumented residents is not unique to North Carolina. Policies vary from state to state, college to college. More than a half-dozen states including California, Illinois, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, and Washington, allow undocumented residents to pay in-state tuition rates, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

As for North Carolina, the current statewide tuition proposal seems unlikely to meet an important legislative deadline looming this week.

On Thursday, pending legislation that hasn't received at least tentative approval in either the House or the Senate will be removed from the agenda. Bills that don't make the so-called "crossover deadline" cant be acted on for the rest of the legislative session, which ends next year. "The bill is certainly subject to crossover," said Paul Luebke, D-Durham, one of the bill's sponsors. "And there seems to be insufficient momentum to reopen a discussion of the merits of the bill."

Opponents say that the North Carolina proposal would attract more undocumented residents to the state. They also argue that they would take up limited space in colleges and universities.

"For every illegal alien in college that's one American that won't be in college, and the American that didn't get to go will be paying for the illegal that replaced them," said William Gheen, president of Americans for Legal Immigration PAC. He added: "Rampant illegal immigration is going to destroy a lot of things we value in North Carolina. We don't reward lawless behavior."

Supporters say encouraging these students to attend college will result in a better-educated work force. Gheen says that claim is irrelevant because the students cannot legally work in the United States.

Supporters also contend that current policy unfairly punishes undocumented students brought to the United States by their parents. Many of the students graduated from state high schools and should be entitled to in-state rates, they say. Besides, the investment in higher education will pay dividends to the entire state.

"The benefit of education goes far beyond this student that were talking about," said Marco Zarate, president of the N.C. Society of Hispanic Professionals. "It goes far beyond their families. The reach of that benefit goes to the whole state. You have more-productive citizens. When you have dropouts, for example, the possibility they're going to be a burden for this society increases exponentially."

Luis, like many other students, lacks immigration documentation because his parents brought him across the border illegally from the Mexican state of Guanajuato. He said he doesn't remember details, and it's not something he and his parents discuss. But he does remember that his parents left Mexico in search of better-paying jobs and to get access to education for their children.

Luis said he didn't realize he was undocumented until he was in middle school. "You never really talk about these sort of things with anybody," he said. "You just sort of keep them to yourself. You always know about it, but it's not until things like this happen that you realize what it means."

Luis dreams of attending Savannah College of Art and Design, but at an estimated total cost of $35,000 a year, that university is too expensive for his parents to afford. For now, he'll have to attend an area community college at a cost of $211 per semester hour.

Luis, who rehearsed for graduation before receiving his diploma Friday in his high schools gym, said he wanted to speak out about the issue because he wants the law to change. He said he picked blueberries last summer because he couldn't find a job. But he doesn't want to go back to the fields.

In his drawing, a profile of President Bush rises from behind Luis cap-and-gown image. "I've been living here for 10 years and I have to pay what somebody who hasn't lived here has to pay, which is a lot more," Luis said.

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Boo hoo hoo again. Find that extra box of tissues!

"We felt like they were such a part of our community," said Meredith Hobson, who coordinates programs at Pender County Schools for migrant education and English as a second language. "They do so much for our schools ... and now, all of a sudden, they're not being treated like all of our kids."

Well HELLO. The AREN'T like "all of our kids." They are ILLEGALS.
Wake up Ms. Hobson. The money you ARE spending on illegals is money you ARE NOT spending on citizens.

Luis said he didn't realize he was undocumented until he was in middle school. "You never really talk about these sort of things with anybody," he said. "You just sort of keep them to yourself. You always know about it, but it's not until things like this happen that you realize what it means."

You need to get a clue. And you want to go to college?

"I've been living here for 10 years and I have to pay what somebody who hasn't lived here has to pay, which is a lot more," Luis said.

What you fail to mention is the American taxpayer has been subsidizing YOUR education. It is unlikely that your parents have paid enough in taxes to cover the cost.
Why don't you apply to the University of Mexico? After all, you ARE a Mexican citizen.

I have a question. What IF you were granted in-state tuition. What would you do when you graduated? Do you realize that you could not be a teacher or any other professional because you would NOT pass a background check because of your illegal status?

Thank you Luis for coming forward.

Your mother works in a FACTORY. If you are undocumented, then so is she. THAT MEANS, your mother stole a factory job, from an American Family in violaton of US Immigration, US Labor and US Civil Rights Law. AMERICANS are standing in line by the droves waiting for a manufacturing job to open up. My county has lost 3,000 manufacturing jobs in NC since 2003.

Your father works in LANDSCAPING!! That means your father either STOLE A JOB IN LANDSCAPING from an American or is RUNNING AN ILLEGAL BUSINESS and STOLE AN ENTIRE BUSINESS ENTERPRISE from an American.

AND if that isn't enough, now you want to steal a seat from an American Student!!

Take your lawnmowers, your family, your money you've saved and GO HOME!!

TWO AMERICAN FAMILIES have been PUT OUT IN THE COLD by your family. The GOVERNMENT AUTHORITIES who created this situation, perpetuated this situation, collaborated and conspired to allow Americans to be displaced by illegal aliens have no heart, have no soul, have no sense, and need to be PINK-SLIPPED and PUT OUT ON THE STREET!!

Luis, Dear, we wish you well and strongly recommend that you head home now. We know that this is not your fault. It is your parent's fault. But you presumably are a Mexican Citizen and have a country waiting for you that needs you. Take your American education and go home.

Use what you have learned here to help your Nation of Mexico become a Place of Dignity!

The Tide is Turning in the United States on this subject. This isn't going to fly here any more, because WE can no longer allow it for reasons that you will understand when you are older.

Judy, you are correct. The tide is finally turning.

I've lived in California for over 30 years now, and have seen 'his' story broadcast, with little or no critical journalistic inquiry, too many times on local, regional, and national television news reports.

The stories I could tell you.

In an odd way, I'm glad the problem has popped up in your state. I'm glad, because it is no longer just a Western states issue. Which means that folks such as yourself are now involved in fixing this problem, too.

Note, too, that Luis himself has been working illegally in this country.

And as he has now announced his family's illegal presence and employment in this country, it's time to deport them. And it's also time to make make people like Meredith Hobson do a little more thinking, and less deceptive emoting.

And it's high time to have appropriate charges filed against the employers who hired them, and to find out into whose pockets the 'taxes' those employers have been 'witholding' these past ten years have actually gone.

And Mr. Gheen has made note of one part of this debate not generally addressed. Illegal aliens do not magically aquire the right to American employment upon college graduation. Indeed, unless they've actually gotten their status changed along the way, a college degree just makes them educated illegal aliens who still can't work in this country legally.

And who says they're going to stay in North Carolina.

Enough already!

Turn the tide!

The Tide is Turning.....the only reason this Party lasted as long as it did is because the whole nation didn't understand it. Now, it does. I feel so bad that we didn't know more about what was happening in our southwestern states. I don't know how or why they tolerated it for so long. I guess they felt isolated and that nobody cared because they were bombarded by the enemy I'm sure each and every time they tried politely to address it.

Americans will not allow this to continue. It will be brought under control shortly or they will take to the streets...as we should.

Judy,

'Bombarded by the enemy' is a phrase you're now becoming familiar with. And you're now witnessing how effective that bombardment is when directed at the uninformed, and the hand-wringers.

In California, we remember Proposition 187. Can you believe it's already been more than ten years since its passage. And not quite as many years since 'Latino rights activists', our state judicial system, and Governor Davis caused its line by line demise.

As long as American citizens allow our elected officials, and our law-enforcement personnel, to do nothing about this problem, or even to allow its expansion. the problem will not stop.

I'm not sure how to tackle it, but the root cause of this mess is the businesses that hire illegal aliens.

It is they that we must boycott, and picket, and embarrass.

It is they upon whom our law enforcement personnel must concentrate.

When they stop hiring illegal aliens, illegal aliens will stop coming here.

Good luck in your local efforts. May they expand into a national one.

Thank you BobC!! I agree that we all have to unite and work on a nationwide basis. I was so shocked to learn today that California had done everything they possibly could within the system and were still defeated for more than a decade. It's outrageous!!

No organization representing interests of foreign nationals should be able to operate as a tax exempt 501 C 3 organization and use this special tax exemption, reserved for public charity work, to work in opposition to the rights, needs and desire of American Citizens

The article I read stated that Governor Davis defended Proposition 187 in the court case, but then bowed to pressure and did not appeal the decision.

The federal court should have upheld the referendum and US Immigration Law.

We have been invaded I think by more than just illegal aliens. We have been invaded by anti-American forces and they appear to be in our courts.

HEY GUYS!!

If illegal immigration is ground to a halt, then so is the illegal migrant population invading our schools.

Ms. Meredith Hobson coordinates program for migrant education and English as a second language. Does this mean that she is a Director of Migrant Education and English as a Second Language?

Does this mean Ms. Hobson would now no longer have anything to coordinate? Perhaps that position would no longer be needed. How many teachers, coordinators, and other personnel are hired EXTRA to accommodate this insanity?

Nationwide, I'll bet this Coordinating Migrant Education and English As a Second Language is BIG BUSINESS!!

They need classrooms, teachers, interpretators, materials, publications, translators. This is BIG EDUCATION BUSINESS!!

Look deep....their is money being made off this insanity, even through the public school systems.

That explains why all these educators support the In-State Tuition Bill. I wondered why they did, because it seemed they would be relieved to have free of the burden of educating Mexico....but nah.....they are employed in it so of course they would support it for their own personal gain.

SHAME ON YOU EDUCATORS, SHAME ON YOU!!

Shame on you to place this burden on the citizens who pay the taxes to support public schools. Shame on you for putting the best interests, safety, security, well-being of American School Children behind your job and aliens. Shame on you for putting your personal gain, your comfy job ahead of the best interest of American Children, Their Parents, and the United States.

Any educator working in the public school system that supports illegal immigration should BE PINK-SLIPPED AND PUT OUT TO PASTURE BEFORE SCHOOL STARTS IN THE FALL!!

The real picture of his life, however, remains incomplete. Luis, whose parents brought him here from Mexico when he was 7, is among an estimated 1,300 undocumented students in the state who face steep obstacles on their paths to college, including restrictive graduation rules and expensive tuition.

Luiz and his parents have been here illegally a long, long time!!!! Long enough to have applied for and gotten legal citizenship had they wanted to. Long enough for Luiz to figure out that is what he needs to do. He hasn't done so either.

Poor Luiz. A criminal, the product of criminal parents.

By the way, in case no one has noticed, we have lots and lots of US Citizens who have parents in prison, but they continue on to lead productive lives. All Luiz has to do is step up to the plate and become a legal, productive citizen of the United States of America. Not just another illegal alien who "expects everything handed to him on a silver platter" -- as his parents have taught him to do.

Everyone used to complain about people on Welfare and how Welfare was a "chosen lifestyle". We all raised cain about getting the welfare roles reduced. Train the people -- get them off the roles. So we actively pursued doing so. Now we have thousands of welfare mothers who are coming off welfare and looking for jobs they cannot find because illegal aliens have them. What's up with that? Is that fair? They are showing up at our Employment Security Commission offices and stating that illegal aliens get the jobs before they can. This is a growing and already huge problem. What are we as a society going to do about it?

Isn't illegal alien-ship a chosen lifestyle? What are we as a Nation going to do about it?

You know any truly educated teenaged son or daughter of immigrants would put the blame on their parents. I mean, you would at least think that their parents would have told them they were undocumented. These kids had to realize it the hard way. I still don't think they should get any in-state tuition but they should wake up and realize that their own parents are to blame. Instead, they blame us. We did not bring them over here when they were little. Their parents did.