Thread: NCT Local Story : IMMIGRANTS IMPACT ON WAGES MIXED

Study: Immigrants' impact on wages mixed

By: WILLIAM FINN BENNETT - Staff Writer
North County Times
February 27, 2007

NORTH COUNTY -- Study results released Tuesday on the effects recent immigrants had on California's job market between 1990 and 2004 showed native workers' wages have risen while earlier immigrants saw their wages suppressed.

The Public Policy Institute of California study concluded that the influx of immigrants during that 14-year period caused U.S.-born workers' inflation-adjusted wages to increase slightly.

But there were also losers in the job market as a result of immigration to California -- a state where fully one-third of the work force was foreign-born in 2004, the study noted.

Despite the gains posted by native workers, earlier immigrants lost out on expected wage increases of as much as 20 percent during that same period because of the competition from immigrants who arrived in California after 1990, according to study author Giovanni Peri, an associate professor of economics at UC Davis.

The study was criticized by some who took issue with the work's premise as well as the author's methodology.

Steven Camarota, the research director for a national group advocating tougher immigration controls, on Tuesday challenged Peri's work on the basis it assumes that immigration benefits U.S. workers and other points.

The public policy institute is a nonprofit organization that survives largely as a result of a 1993 $70 million endowment from the organization's co-founder William Hewlett, who helped found the Hewlett Packard Co. The institute describes itself as independent and nonpartisan in nature and it conducts research on issues affecting state policy.

Titled "How Immigrants Affect California Employment and Wages," the study analyzed four decades of data from the U.S. Census and the 2004 American Community Survey, a nationwide survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau.

The study comes as the immigration debate continues to boil across the region, state and nation, and some opponents of illegal immigration say that illegal immigrants are depressing wages and taking jobs from U.S. citizens.

The study also concluded that immigrants are not decreasing the number of jobs available to natives.

"There is no evidence that the inflow of immigrants over the period 1960-2004 worsened the employment opportunities of natives with similar backgrounds and education," Peri wrote.

The study attributed the growth in wages for native workers and their widening job horizons to the fact that immigrants often take jobs that complement those of natives.

"For example, if not for a nanny to take care of your child, you would not be able to participate in the labor force as much as you do," said Hans Johnson, the study's editor who also edits the institute's quarterly publication "California Counts."

His statement echoed the thoughts of study author Peri.

"As the number of immigrants available for certain jobs and tasks increases, so does the need for complementary jobs in managing, organizing and training -- work typically done by natives," Peri wrote. "In other words, the increased supply of one type of worker fuels the demand for another."

One economist was less than enthusiastic about Peri's methodology, however.

Camarota said Tuesday that Peri's research began with the assumption that immigration benefits native workers.

"Then, it's just a question of measuring it," Camarota said in a phone interview from his Washington office of the Center for Immigration Studies.

Peri took issue with Camarota's assertion.

"I don't agree that it is an assumption," Peri said. "The data tells me" there is a benefit.

Camarota said that Peri also did not account for the fact that there are native workers outside of California who may not be coming into the state because they don't want to have to compete with foreign-born workers at lower wage levels.

"I allowed for this effect to be there," Peri said.

Camarota also said that it would be a much more valid analysis to look at the nation as a whole rather than just at California.

"Looking at just one state is not effective," Camarota told The Associated Press. "If you have a factory in California that employs a lot of immigrants, it might be in direct competition with a factory in Pittsburgh that employs a lot of natives."

In an afternoon teleconference Tuesday, Peri said that certainly some native workers have not seen an increase in their wages, especially in manual labor intensive occupations. However, those losses have been largely offset by new job opportunities that have opened up for them as supervisors, managers or foremen in areas where greater English language skills are needed.

According to the study, native workers who were high school dropouts had the lowest increase in wages during the 14-year period, at 0.2 percent. Conversely, native workers with some college saw their wages increase most, going up an inflation-adjusted average of 7.2 percent for that period.

-- Contact staff writer William Finn Bennett at (760) 740-5426 or wbennett@nctimes.com.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/02 ... ogcomments

Comments On This Story

Note: Comments reflect the views of readers and not necessarily those of the North County Times or its staff.

morty wrote on February 28, 2007 12:33 AM:"how can they get a job and my son cant?"

Skip wrote on February 28, 2007 4:39 AM:"HERE COMES AMNESTY !!!!!!!! The media is being used to soften up the American Public. HERE COMES AMNESTY !!!!!!!!""

Bob wrote on February 28, 2007 7:02 AM:"The number of "immigrants" in our jails clearly demonstrate how they have created extra work for our police."

Robert24 wrote on February 28, 2007 7:19 AM:"Here's a study suggestion: Are you legal or illegal? Not racist, not profiling, not targeting any one group. Ask everybody, and make them show proof. Legal; have a nice day. Illegal; have a nice trip back home. No more spending money on stupid studies! That should clear up a whole lot of problems (uninsured motorist, no medical insurance, no drivers license, etc.)and save us all a whole lot of money. Wonder why no one else has thought of this?"

Scott wrote on February 28, 2007 7:21 AM:"I don't agree with the statement about it not affecting native born workers getting jobs. Try being a white male 17-20 year old male and getting a fast food part time job so you can still go to school. If you don't speak Spanish you are out of luck. When was the last time you saw a white face at the drive through window of any burger places other than In and out. That's why I don't eat there, reverse discrimination is in full swing for teenage/young adult males trying to break into the work force."

Lester: wrote on February 28, 2007 7:58 AM:" Immigrants? How can anything reported be trusted when the facts of one issue are disregarded and the details are twisted to serve a groups special interest? It amazes me to see journalist think that the public will believe anything they put in print. The compounders of the twisted facts and false information in the above article seem to believe that the public will believe anything that say, Let me remind them that the public is "we the people" and that they are being scrutinized a little closer each time they write an untruth and we the public know where they are coming from."

Common Sense Ron wrote on February 28, 2007 9:13 AM:"In a capitalist system, an overabundance of laborers will stagnant, or reduce the wages to all laborers of equal value. That is a bottom line in economic theory. Just as an overabundance of ahything, reduces the price. Aren't you just so tired of these open borders people? They may have a whole string of sheep skins behind their names, but common sense escapes them. and Besides, they are the one's who need the gardners, nannies, and maids. It's no skin off their noses, no illegal will be vying for their jobs, their secure in their Ivory Tower."

Concerned-1 wrote on February 28, 2007 9:14 AM:"The more I look and see what's happening, the more I feel the need for our governments (fed, state, local) to enforce laws that are on the books. I'm not against guest workers, provided they conduct themselves according to the laws of the land. It is an economic fact that the economy is always changing, and there is a need for workers at many levels. What I can't abide is a third world environment here in The Golden State. Overcrowding, unlicensed/uninsured drivers, free social health care, graffiti, are all major socio-economic problems the root cause of which is illegal immigration. My two cents on a Wednesday."

Bill wrote on February 28, 2007 9:22 AM:"Common sense says the more workers there are the lower they will be paid....it's supply and demand...economics 101. So I don't see how illegals could have any effect but to lower the wages."

Democrat Robert wrote on February 28, 2007 9:27 AM:"Your right on Skip .. here comes a "path to citizenship" .. this is a flimsy foundation for a weak argument. Tell them all to just get in line to enter!! "

Skipperooski wrote on February 28, 2007 9:34 AM:"Forget about immigrants. We need to quanntify the effects on wages which are effectuated by ILLEGAL ALIENS."

Jeff 2 wrote on February 28, 2007 9:55 AM:"The PPIC " describes itself as independent and nonpartisan in nature and it conducts research on issues affecting state policy." Mark Baldasarre runs it and if you analyze what he has done with the PPIC poll that he has run, it's pretty clear that the man is a mass immigration advocate. And this study was designed to further that agenda. There was no doubt in the outcome because it is merely a reiteration of the conclusion in Peri's existing study, ""Rethinking The Gains From Immigration: Theory And Evidence From The U.S." Yesterday the paper ran an article on a "just released" study on immigrant criminality that was actually not new at all. Now they and every other paper are reporting this without giving readers the background information that I've just offered. "

Yeah wrote on February 28, 2007 9:56 AM:"Skip is right. Our politicians are on Capitol Hill talking about their plans for the pathway to citizenship for their illegal friends. What a sad country we live in when our own elected officials don't listen to us. Mexifornia, here we come!"

davo wrote on February 28, 2007 10:13 AM:"Deport the white man, long live native Americans."

American woman wrote on February 28, 2007 10:21 AM:"This is another one of those print media masterpieces that begs the reader to move quickly and please do not note that the writer uses the term "immigrant" throughout! Most of us are concerned with illegal alien invasion and it's effects on our economy, our workers, our culture, our infrastructure, our schools, our local and Federal aid agencies and our medical facilities. As the media panders to the left, where it spends most of it's time and efforts, it will do most anything in an attempt to deceive Joe Public. Why must we tolerate the spin of the left? Answer: We don't have to! Just read carefully and if there's anything to be gleaned from an article, fine. Otherwise, it's just another birdcage-liner."

Jorge wrote on February 28, 2007 10:31 AM:"I'd like to know how these deals are arranged. How does the word trickle-down to the media? I actually know a couple of newspaper journalists who are not total left-wingnuts. When does the flag drop that indicates it's time to spin to the pathetically politically under-educated masses? Did anyone ever take note of the fact that most of the comments on these articles...not necessarily from died-in-the-wool BLOGGERS...are coming from conservative types? I'm not sure why this is, but I will venture a guess: The reason we don't hear much from the liberals on these newspaper comment pages is that they really don't have to run defense against the media all the time, so they can't be bothered. They are followers who would rather quit than fight. 'Nuff said."

Lies, damn lies wrote on February 28, 2007 10:33 AM:"And staitistics. I doubt this studies results. Having left work in construction ten years ago I can say the that the wages of trades hasn't gone up at all in that time. More need for supervisors? Sure if you speak spanish. We have a major problem here and our leaders need to do something about it. My main question is why is Mexico and south america so messed up? I know Mexico's main issue is corruption but is all of south america that bad too?"

ILLEGAL wrote on February 28, 2007 10:34 AM:"Can't anyone who works for the NCT's get it right? It is ILLEGAL ALIENS NOT immigrants."

Ray wrote on February 28, 2007 10:50 AM:"Monty, your son does not want to work! the reason is you being overprotective and condoning his excuses for not finding a job."

Reason wrote on February 28, 2007 10:55 AM:"They're doing your yards, catering your favorite restaurants, picking your fruits and vegetables, tending your hotels and many other jobs to make it really affordable to you because Morty's son would rather sit at home and complain. "

Radical Geezer wrote on February 28, 2007 10:56 AM:"Just see how hard it is to hire "tradesmen" who are not illegals. The meat packing & cutting industry, landscaping and construction fields have all seen wages decrease as a result of illegal aliens taking what used to be well compensated, middle class jobs. The finish carpenter, stone mason, butcher, and landscaper cannot compete with the cash paid, non-taxpaying illegal alien. Any time there is an underground economy, there is depressed wages. Even housekeepers have seen their hourly rates go down as a result of illegals competing for their jobs. The results of any study that condones breaking the law to help our economy is suspect."

Hey Jose wrote on February 28, 2007 11:25 AM:"It took an Associate Professor of Economics to formulate this finding? I agree that the only reason this study being reported is to create the impression of suffering caused to illegal immigrants. They never had it so good. The biggest question I have is what input was used as the basis for immigrant wages? I understand that the largest percentage of undocumented labors receive unreported income. From simple observations, street corner undocumented labors worked for far less years ago, but has steadily risen. If the source of wages was from businesses, aren't they complying with minimum wage laws which periodically increases?"

Concerned-1 wrote on February 28, 2007 12:34 PM:"I'm not much for conspiracies, but...I do find it odd that NCT would print back-to-back stories about studies supporting illegals. Could Skip have something here? Is there a North American Union plan? Is the media (NCT) being directed? Who can we trust?"

Morty wrote on February 28, 2007 12:43 PM:"My son can't get a job because he only has high school education and he doesn't feel like working with Mexicans. He want's to be a supervisor somewhere but the illegals make it hard for him to make good leaving, they don't even have high school. Besides, my son is only 25, I don't have a problem with him living at home. But this is not the problem, the problem is that thanks to illegals my son can't get a decent job."

Mike wrote on February 28, 2007 12:47 PM:"If Morty's son is too lazy to learn Spanish and steal sombody else's social security number, he doesn't desreve a job."

mark wrote on February 28, 2007 12:53 PM:"The PPIC needs to stop take a deep breath. The laws of supply and demand have not been repealed in the case of Illegal immigrants. As more and more low skilled American workers are displaced it will seem as thought the wages of American born workers are rising. This is the same reasoning that leads some to conclude that because only the ultra-rich are still buying houses that the market is great because the *AVERAGE* price of homes sold keeps rising."

bH wrote on February 28, 2007 12:54 PM:"My friend and I were in Vista last week. He consideres himself a "strong opponent to illegal and legal immigration", particularly from Latin America. As we were walking down the street he pointed out "how many Mexicans were driving on the streets". To make matters worse [for him], we noticed that in small shopping center many of the business were owned/run but "Mexicans". Then he said: see this is what I'm talking about, where are the Americans [meaning whites]? They [Mexicans] are kicking us out!" Then I pointed to a homeless person on street corner panhandling, an American [white], and said, "no, we're still here""

tch tch wrote on February 28, 2007 3:04 PM:"I wonder if Morty's son would be able to go to Bank Of America and get a mortgage, or maybe even a credit card? "

According to the government wrote on February 28, 2007 3:05 PM:"we do not have to obey laws, I guess this applies to our paying IRS?"

el tigre wrote on February 28, 2007 4:01 PM:"To Morty: With that attitude your son will never work. Mexicans (legal or not) are everywhere and are not going anywhere. Here's an idea have your son take Spanish lessons."

morty wrote on February 28, 2007 4:43 PM:"STOP USING MY NAME .I DIDNT BLOG AT 12.43"

Pedro wrote on February 28, 2007 5:20 PM:"Chill out, Morty. It's not el tigre's fault your son doesn't speak Spanish."

Is this still America? wrote on February 28, 2007 5:48 PM:"It is Saturday morning and I am sitting in my yard. Street work is going on- I can hear the tools working and the men talking in spanish to each other-not one word of English spoken. Flash back to the 70's and 80's this would be a job held by an American working to support his family-only English spoken or no job. Nobody had to learn to speak the language of another country to accomadate you!! It is AMERICA-the USA etc.. learn to speak, read and write in English-no coddling. My ancestors had to learn to speak English to survive, they were happy to be Americans, they became citizens and were proud to be able to vote!! Now we have ballots in Farsi, spanish and who knows what else. I thought you had to be a citizen to vote and I thought one of the pre-requisites was that you could speak, read and write "our language""

Skip wrote on February 28, 2007 5:51 PM:"If amnesty does go down this year as is being pushed, I will quit all of my online blogging and fighting to preserve America. All I can do is saying that I told you so. All of the illegal Aliens today are not vested in social security and if they are, it will be on your dime. After the Amnesty goes down all of the new found citizens will be able to sponsor all of their relatives, and if that is not bad enough there will be a new round of 20 million new illegal immigrants to take their place. You would think that we would be running out of subservient jobs by then and I am at a loss at what all of these uneducated and non-English speaking people will do. This study says that illegals do not affect our wages, but what about our schools, hospitals, cities (gangs), and roads (unlicensed drivers). What about all of the other negative effects of bringing millions of third world people illegally into our country? Yeah sometimes I get depressed just thinking about it. Oh and there will be amnesty, because our politicians are afraid that just like in France, that there will be rioting in the streets."

CCUSA wrote on February 28, 2007 6:04 PM:"Any gains are quickly soaked up and siphened off from taxes, encarcerations, hospital closings increase in social services ect... Who are they trying to kid, we're in the red on illegal immigration!!!!!!! "

Add Your Comments or Letter to the Editor

I can see it now wrote on February 28, 2007 6:11 PM:"All these little old men and ladies living in North County who do not have internet, and get all of their news from this newspaper. Hmmmmm .... Back to back, to back, stories on how wonderful Illegal Aliens are to this country. Hmmm maybe Amnesty is not such a bad idea after all."

morty wrote on February 28, 2007 6:28 PM:"Maybe my son is not the best person to sell hamburgers. Lets face it folks, illegals do jobs we wont do. They clean, cook, and sell oranges...so that we don't have to....I can't even remember the last time my son even cleaned his room!"

Skip wrote on February 28, 2007 6:32 PM:"I am tired of the immigration problem here in so cal....we should all go back to Europe....the illegals we here first anyway....come on guys...what's fair is fair....its their land."

Conservative1 wrote on February 28, 2007 6:32 PM:""Titled 'How Immigrants Affect California Employment and Wages,' the study analyzed four decades of data from the U.S. Census and the 2004 American Community Survey, a nationwide survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau." 1) The canyons are full of illegal aliens whose statistics are not tabulated. 2) Many illegal aliens are day laborers who are paid under the table; hence their income is transparent. 3)Many illegal aliens are sublet apartment space without signing a lease; hence, there is no reliable data to determine their numbers, much less their impact on our economy. 4)The U.S. Census does not distinguish between resident aliens and illegal aliens; hence, it favors the open borders advocates' agenda and renders any statistical analysis of all such data it collects utterly meaningless. "

Chip wrote on February 28, 2007 6:44 PM:"To Conservative 0, should we then invalidate anti-immigrant studies that use statistics based on your reasoning?"

morty wrote on February 28, 2007 8:33 PM:"Yes, my son wishes he did not drop out of school in 8th grade and hence cannot spell and that he cannot seem to get out of bed until noon, sometimes later, but that should not prevent a red-blooded American like him from losing a job to an illegal. This is not the American way folks!"

the colonized wrote on February 28, 2007 9:06 PM:"I left NC because of all the Mexicans. I read (prior to my leaving) that the Triangle is considered to be the "Puerto Rico of the Southeast." This Puerto Rico comment was from a Hispanic website. Whites have no rights in this country and the politicians pretend we don't exist, unless they blame us for something. In my heart, America doesn't even exist, we're now just a colonized people. "

dubya wrote on February 28, 2007 9:19 PM:"This "study" is pure nonsense plain and simple. I think Mr. Peri needs to quit his job with the corporate funded think tank and go out and get himself a real job. That is of course if he qualified to do anything more productive than tell fairy tales. But I suppose if Peri ever loses his job with PPIC he could always go to work for the Creation Science Institute. He's got all the right qualifcations for it. Native workers' wages have risen? And that supposed increase is all directly attributable to unfettered illegal immigration? Puh-lease, spare me! There are literally dozens of other studies that directly contradict that. "There is no evidence that the inflow of immigrants over the period 1960-2004 worsened the employment opportunities of natives with similar backgrounds and education," Note the distinction he makes - "natives with similar backgrounds and education". Last time I checked, there were absolutely NO non-english speaking "natives" in the legal US workforce with third grade educations, accustomed to doing agricultural stoop labor 10 hrs. a day for $3 / hr. And if there were I'm reasonably certain they would have found that their jobs had already been taken by illegal immigrants. That assertion is just plain nonsense on it's face. But also note, "earlier immigrants lost out on expected wage increases of as much as 20 percent during that same period because of the competition from immigrants who arrived in California after 1990" If that assertion is correct, then it's further proof that illegal immigration does in fact have a devastating impact on the wages of unskilled, low-skilled workers already in the US. Well, at any rate, this study proves one thing for sure; figures lie, liars figure. There's an simple way to settle this issue. Just send all the illegals back to Mexico for 1 year. If US wages go down then we can let them come back and bring all their relatives and friends with them. However, if it turns out that illegal immigration really does cause wages to rise for the native workforce then I can think of at least a dozen poor countries who need higher wages much worse than we need them in the US. It would be terribly greedy of us here in America to keep the benefits of illegal immigration all to ourselves. Tell Calderone to send the troops to Darfur instead -W- "

morty wrote on February 28, 2007 9:54 PM:"Ok, can someone please help getting my lazy American-born son a job?! "

Conservative2 wrote on March 01, 2007 12:37 AM:"Chip wrote on February 28, 2007 6:44 PM: "To Conservative 0, should we then invalidate anti-immigrant studies that use statistics based on your reasoning?" Conservative1 is not going to answer you because your question is so totally inane. He said the statistical data are invalid because they do not distinguish between those who are here legally - called resident aliens or immigrants in common parlance - and those who are here illegally, who are properly called illegal aliens. Moreover, there are plenty of reliable statistics to draw upon to determine the impact illegal aliens are having on our economy: the number of illegal aliens incarcerated, the number of babies born to illegal aliens that do not pay anything for hospital services, the number of stolen social security numbers that the IRS is tracking, etc. What don't you understand about illegal? "

Skip wrote on March 01, 2007 4:35 AM:"RE: Skip wrote on February 28, 2007 6:32 PM:"I am tired of the immigration problem here in so cal.... >>>> Very funny. But I won't give up that easy. I haven't spent 20 years in the United States military to just give up our country to third world Illegal Immigrants, and Socialism. R/ The REAL SKIP"[/b]

unemployment wrote on March 01, 2007 5:55 AM:"Here's a crazy thought, Morty. Maybe the reason your son can't find a job has more to do with your son than immigration. Though of course, blaming someone else is much easier than taking personal responsibility. A 25 year old with only a high school diploma is really not qualified to supervise anyone. In fact, most of the Mexicans you refer to are probably 10x more qualified than a racist GenMe-er who refuses to work with them. If he really wants a job, I hear the military has been on a mad hiring spree. Assuming your son hasn't committed any felonies (which would otherwise further explain his employment status), maybe he can get a gig at the local army recruiter. "

El Roberto wrote on March 01, 2007 1:25 PM:"Whers the beef?...based on what I see in the economy and looking at others, I say its a net gain (our economy)like it or not."

Hick wrote on March 01, 2007 6:41 PM:"Conservative 0, Chip is right. You cannot downplay statistics when they say things you do not want to hear or agree with. That is, like, totally inane. What part of reason do you not understand? Stats are a powerful tool but not everyone understands them. I am sorry. Its just a fact of life."

What happened? wrote on March 01, 2007 6:42 PM:"I remember a time when the USA had an identity. Where we went to Mexico and it was a different identity. I'm seeing that identity replacing ours today, and the USA identity my many family generations have known, is gone. I went to the Fashion District in LA, I was literally the only person with the old USA identity. Everything was in Spanish, and every knock off item was there and every scam artist was selling them. From Rolex's to Nike's, to the latest released movies that haven't come out on DVD yet. It was the same as the Tijuana identity i used to know. What happened to the USA identity? It's no different than going into Mexico now. The proud culture we used to know was a melting pot of different races with people who wanted to earn citizenship and become a proud American. This is now replaced with a bunch of criminals who sneak into here in the middle of the night and demand the same thing, without earning it. You can't earn citizenship by jumping a fence and working in a field, you have to earn it by standing in line and doing the requirements - what we from the old USA identity would call "the right thing to do". "

Skip wrote on March 01, 2007 6:48 PM:"Something needs to be done. Using tax dollars on immigrants is a waste. I was in the military for 20 years doing push-ups, running laps, and playing with rifles--a good use of tax dollars. Using tax dollars to educate illegals, give them health care, and care for their babies is an utter waste!"

Conservative 2 wrote on March 01, 2007 6:51 PM:"Just to go on record, I misunderstood the stats from the report, those opposing immigration, it could be said, are statistically misguided. Thank you to conservative 0 for pointing that out to me and the other good, but misguided, folks in here."

Skip wrote on March 03, 2007 10:35 AM:"re : Skip wrote on March 01, 2007 6:48 PM:" Once again not a post by me. But the funny thing is that I agree with most of what he/she did post. I did want to add that I spent a great deal of those 20 years guarding other countries borders, while ours seem to be wide open. I do feel that it is a waste of money to spend on Foreign illegals, while our own citizens are being neglected. Our public school systems have become unsuitable for u.S. Citizens."

Skip wrote on March 03, 2007 10:38 AM:"There will be a new wave of Illegal Immigrant rallies at Balboa Park soon. Here is a picture from last year. I'll bet it took the photographer a long time to get a picture that was not exclusively mexican Flags. http://www.nctimes.com/content/articles ... _30_06.jpg"

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What happened? wrote on March 01, 2007 6:42 PM:"I remember a time when the USA had an identity. Where we went to Mexico and it was a different identity. I'm seeing that identity replacing ours today, and the USA identity my many family generations have known, is gone. I went to the Fashion District in LA, I was literally the only person with the old USA identity. Everything was in Spanish, and every knock off item was there and every scam artist was selling them. From Rolex's to Nike's, to the latest released movies that haven't come out on DVD yet. It was the same as the Tijuana identity i used to know. What happened to the USA identity? It's no different than going into Mexico now. The proud culture we used to know was a melting pot of different races with people who wanted to earn citizenship and become a proud American. This is now replaced with a bunch of criminals who sneak into here in the middle of the night and demand the same thing, without earning it. You can't earn citizenship by jumping a fence and working in a field, you have to earn it by standing in line and doing the requirements - what we from the old USA identity would call "the right thing to do". "

Skip wrote on March 01, 2007 6:48 PM:"Something needs to be done. Using tax dollars on immigrants is a waste. I was in the military for 20 years doing push-ups, running laps, and playing with rifles--a good use of tax dollars. Using tax dollars to educate illegals, give them health care, and care for their babies is an utter waste!"

Skip wrote on March 03, 2007 10:35 AM:"re : Skip wrote on March 01, 2007 6:48 PM:" Once again not a post by me. But the funny thing is that I agree with most of what he/she did post. I did want to add that I spent a great deal of those 20 years guarding other countries borders, while ours seem to be wide open. I do feel that it is a waste of money to spend on Foreign illegals, while our own citizens are being neglected. Our public school systems have become unsuitable for u.S. Citizens."

Skip wrote on March 03, 2007 10:38 AM:"There will be a new wave of Illegal Immigrant rallies at Balboa Park soon. Here is a picture from last year. I'll bet it took the photographer a long time to get a picture that was not exclusively mexican Flags. http://www.nctimes.com/content/articles ... _30_06.jpg"

Skip wrote on March 03, 2007 4:34 PM:"I would also add that I am proud of my military service. However, it is now time for a new generation to take up the fight against the illegals. I am too tired, old, and broke to fight on."

Skip wrote on March 03, 2007 8:08 PM:"Re : Skip wrote on March 03, 2007 4:34 PM:" It is too bad I cannot stop others from using my name or making false posts, but that is the way I see the open borders crowd acting. Dishonest, manipulating, and corrupt. No Socialist Country has ever been successful. That they intentionally use terms that confuse rather than clarify is automatically suspicious. They'll stop at nothing to stop public discussion of immigration issues. Those who insist on using clear and accurate terms will be intimidated with accusations of "racist," "xenophobic," "hate mongers," "anti-immigrant," and "bigot" and the rest of their tired litany. And for what it is worth I am still active duty and will make at least one more deployment before I retire. "

BearFlagRepublic wrote on March 03, 2007 8:23 PM:"Makes my blood boil......187........Foreign leaders, ethnic activists, business lobbies, and the ACLU have more power than Californian voters. We just can not call our current government a democracy. Since then, hundreds of thousands of Californians (possibly 1 million?) have fled the Golden State. If we do not do something, and reclaim our democracy, California--nay the ENTIRE Southwest will look like Los Angeles. One big Third World paradise. Lovely."