New York Times: The Great Immigration Panic

The Great Immigration Panic
June 3, 2008
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Someday, the country will recognize the true cost of its war on illegal immigration. We don’t mean dollars, though those are being squandered by the billions. The true cost is to the national identity: the sense of who we are and what we value. It will hit us once the enforcement fever breaks, when we look at what has been done and no longer recognize the country that did it.

A nation of immigrants is holding another nation of immigrants in bondage, exploiting its labor while ignoring its suffering, condemning its lawlessness while sealing off a path to living lawfully. The evidence is all around that something pragmatic and welcoming at the American core has been eclipsed, or is slipping away.

An escalating campaign of raids in homes and workplaces has spread indiscriminate terror among millions of people who pose no threat. After the largest raid ever last month — at a meatpacking plant in Iowa — hundreds were swiftly force-fed through the legal system and sent to prison. Civil-rights lawyers complained, futilely, that workers had been steamrolled into giving up their rights, treated more as a presumptive criminal gang than as potentially exploited workers who deserved a fair hearing. The company that harnessed their desperation, like so many others, has faced no charges.

Immigrants in detention languish without lawyers and decent medical care even when they are mortally ill. Lawmakers are struggling to impose standards and oversight on a system deficient in both. Counties and towns with spare jail cells are lining up for federal contracts as prosecutions fill the system to bursting. Unbothered by the sight of blameless children in prison scrubs, the government plans to build up to three new family detention centers. Police all over are checking papers, empowered by politicians itching to enlist in the federal crusade.

This is not about forcing people to go home and come back the right way. Ellis Island is closed. Legal paths are clogged or do not exist. Some backlogs are so long that they are measured in decades or generations. A bill to fix the system died a year ago this month. The current strategy, dreamed up by restrictionists and embraced by Republicans and some Democrats, is to force millions into fear and poverty.

There are few national figures standing firm against restrictionism. Senator Edward Kennedy has bravely done so for four decades, but his Senate colleagues who are running for president seem by comparison to be in hiding. John McCain supported sensible reform, but whenever he mentions it, his party starts braying and he leaves the room. Hillary Rodham Clinton has lost her voice on this issue more than once. Barack Obama, gliding above the ugliness, might someday test his vision of a new politics against restrictionist hatred, but he has not yet done so. The American public’s moderation on immigration reform, confirmed in poll after poll, begs the candidates to confront the issue with courage and a plan. But they have been vague and discreet when they should be forceful and unflinching.

The restrictionist message is brutally simple — that illegal immigrants deserve no rights, mercy or hope. It refuses to recognize that illegality is not an identity; it is a status that can be mended by making reparations and resuming a lawful life. Unless the nation contains its enforcement compulsion, illegal immigrants will remain forever Them and never Us, subject to whatever abusive regimes the powers of the moment may devise.

Every time this country has singled out a group of newly arrived immigrants for unjust punishment, the shame has echoed through history. Think of the Chinese and Irish, Catholics and Americans of Japanese ancestry. Children someday will study the Great Immigration Panic of the early 2000s, which harmed countless lives, wasted billions of dollars and mocked the nation’s most deeply held values.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/opini ... ref=slogin

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The true cost is to the national identity: the sense of who we are and what we value. It will hit us once the enforcement fever breaks, when we look at what has been done and no longer recognize the country that did it

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What planet is he from ? Does he sit in starbucks all day and hum ? NYT's is getting real tuff to read now a days.
We've had a Invadsion of upwards of 40 million . Spent them all back to Mexico and latin America and i care less what any progressive says .

When is the NY Times going to give up. Their pro-illegal invader SOB stories are so tired already!

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The restrictionist message is brutally simple — that illegal immigrants deserve no rights, mercy or hope. It refuses to recognize that illegality is not an identity; it is a status that can be mended by making reparations and resuming a lawful life.

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Sophistry. Illegality is indeed a status, just as being guilty of manslaughter or DUI is a status. Both statuses carry with them consequences.

Illegal immigration and legal immigration are not the same - I wish these writers would stop justifying/equating one with the other.

Tencz


The figure that you quote represents foreign born living in the United States from all countries. A lot of people on ALIPAC are within that 40 mllion and surely you do not count all of them or us as not being assets to the United States.


Apropos


I wish some ALIPAC posters would stop making the same mistake.

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This is not about forcing people to go home and come back the right way. Ellis Island is closed. Legal paths are clogged or do not exist. Some backlogs are so long that they are measured in decades or generations. A bill to fix the system died a year ago this month. The current strategy, dreamed up by restrictionists and embraced by Republicans and some Democrats, is to force millions into fear and poverty.

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Whaaaaa!

Nobody has forced anybody to live in fear and poverty. They put themselves in this position when they broke into our country. And yes, they need to go back and come in the right way. The reason the system is clogged is because everyone in the world wants to come here, and that's imposssible.

Consider the source! They get dumber by the day!

A nations immigration policy is supposed to optimize the conditions for it's citizens collectively not the immigrants. That is not supposed to be NO immigrants like Tencz would have it but it is neither is it until the potential immigrants decide they want to stop coming here either. It is supposed to be up to us as a democratic country to decide how many is ideal and if they have broken our law they should not benefit by it .

The Bush adminstration belatedly (and still minimally) starts to enforce some of the immigration laws, and the New York Times and other open border and illegal alien enablers are hysterical. I wonder how many of these New York Times editors would be willing to live in and send their kids to public schools in south central LA or similar public schools on the East Coast.

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Originally Posted by Richard

Tencz


The figure that you quote represents foreign born living in the United States from all countries. A lot of people on ALIPAC are within that 40 mllion and surely you do not count all of them or us as not being assets to the United States.


Apropos


I wish some ALIPAC posters would stop making the same mistake.

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Not sure what you are saying in your post, Richard but CAPS has published (October 2007) a study that estimates the number of illegal aliens in the U.S. are 20 to 38 million. I also believe that 20 million is a very conservative figure.

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Report by CAPS Disputes Government Figures
WASHINGTON, DC—Homeland Security's August 31 report that 8 to 12 million illegal aliens reside in the United States grossly underestimates the number of illegal foreigners, according to a new study by the Californians for Population Stabilization (CAPS) released on Wednesday, October 3.

The new report, "The Illegal Population Explosion: A Realistic Appraisal of its Actual Size, Implications for the Future, and Consequences for Public Policy Decisions and Citizen Activism," was released at a News Conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.

Four experts who contributed to the 45-page study explained their findings that illegal aliens in the U.S. total at least 20 million, but perhaps as many as 38 million or more -- which far exceeds 8 to 12 million estimated by Homeland Security's Office of Immigration Studies new report, "Estimates of the Unauthorized Immigrant Population Residing in the United States, January 2006" (released August 31, 2007, see http://www.dhs.gov/ximgtn/statistics . The new study disputing the government figures was funded by Californians for Population Stabilization (CAPS) (www.capsweb.org) and published by The Social Contract Press (www.thesocialcontract.com).

The new report's contributors and paper titles which were discussed the Washington, D.C. News were:

"How Many Foreign Nationals Actually Live in the U.S. Illegally?" -- Diana Hull, Ph.D., behavioral scientist and President of Californians for Population Stabilization (CAPS).

"Illegal Aliens: Counting the Uncountable" -- James Walsh, J.D., former Associate General Counsel of the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS).

"Spiraling Backwards: The Fiscal Impact of Illegal Immigration in California, Revisited" -- Philip Romero, Ph.D., professor of Business Administration at the University of Oregon who previously was Economic Advisor to former California Governor Pete Wilson.

"How Many Illegal Aliens are in the U.S.? An Alternative Methodology to Discovering the Numbers" -- Fred Elbel, computer specialist from Colorado who is an expert in methodologies and data analysis

Wayne Lutton, Ph.D., editor of The Social Contract, was the moderator.

"There is good reason to believe that instead of 8 to12 million illegal aliens living in the United States, there may actually be 20 to 30 million or more," Diana Hull, President of CAPS, writes in her paper, "How Many Foreign Nationals Actually Live in the U.S. Illegally?" "Getting those numbers right was crucial, but ignored, during the recent Senate debate. There is no matter more critical for our population future than ascertaining the actual scale of this problem," she writes.

James Walsh, former associate general counsel to the INS, says in his paper, "Illegal Aliens: Counting the Uncountable," that: "No exact head count exists for the ghost population of illegal aliens. ...Guessing the number is like playing the lottery." None of the government "experts" "has a clue as to the exact number," he says, "but this does not keep them from crafting estimates to fit their own agenda. ...My estimate of 38 million illegal aliens residing in the United States is calculated using a conservative annual rate of entry (allowing for deaths and returns to their homeland) of three illegal aliens entering the United States for each one apprehended," he explains. His article further details his methodology and experiences at the INS.

Philip Romero, former economic advisor to Gov. Pete Wilson of California, says in his paper, "Spiraling Backwards: The Fiscal Impact of Illegal Immigration in California, Revisited" that "the average illegal immigrant receives eight to twelve dollars in services for every dollar they pay in taxes, roughly twice the disparity found in 1994... Illegal immigrants impose a 'tax' on legal Californian residents in the tens of billions of dollars. Their costs, net of taxes, consume about 20 percent of the entire state budget, crowding out vital services or lower taxes for legal residents."

In his paper, "How Many Illegal Aliens are in the U.S.? An Alternative Methodology to Discovering the Numbers," Fred Elbel includes five tables and many statistics to explain his methodology to arrive at a reasonable figure of illegals. "Official estimates are somewhat suspect and may represent significant undercounts, as they are produced by the very entity responsible for the tidal wave of illegal aliens entering our nation," Mr. Elbel explains. "Based on [my] analysis...it is likely that up to 20 million illegal aliens presently reside in the United States, with up to 12,000 additional illegal aliens entering every day."

To receive a copy of the new study, "The Illegal Population Explosion: A Realistic Appraisal of its Actual Size, Implications for the Future, and Consequences for Public Policy Decisions and Citizen Activism," go to CAPS’s website: The study may be viewed on CAPS’ website at http://www.capsweb.org/content.php?id=57&menu_id=8, contact the CAPS office at 805-564-6626 or info@capsweb.org.

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Someday, the country will recognize the true cost of its war on illegal immigration. We don’t mean dollars, though those are being squandered by the billions. The true cost is to the national identity: the sense of who we are and what we value.

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We've already seen what non-enforcement of our laws has done to this country and it's made our country into something we as Americans no longer recognise........the cost has already taken it's toll on this country, created a vile new wave of racism, child moslestation, drugs, violence, rape, abuse, confusion, seperation, lawlessness, to extreems I haven't experience in over 50 years. Right now we have no national identity anymore, no protected borders, nothing like the American way of life I grew up in. I don't know what America is anymore, but its a far cry from what it used to be and in the bad way. It's like in less than 10 years we've gone back 150 years.

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A nation of immigrants is holding another nation of immigrants in bondage

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This NATION isn't holding anyone in bondage. They aren't wanted or needed here and they didn't care to follow the laws as it is and I don't see Americans keeping them from leaving. Remember, these people willing came here on their own merits and undercut the wages of citizens and begged to be so called held in bondage because it was supposidly better than their home country. Then proceeded to do everything in their power to spit in face of Americans. These are not American immigrant material and not doing anything but destroying every level of the American life to turn it into the same place they supposidly fled from. No thank you. It's not the same America anymore and it's worse than I ever remember and going towards a type of country I want no part of.

Our immigration system is backlogged because it's obvious we, as a nation, bend over backwards to let people from other nations come here. Millions a year.....Our door is open.......just not open enough for some and "too difficult" for others, and then there's those who don't CARE if we have laws or not because they WANT it. They don't want to pay any price for the right to be here legally. They don't want to fill out papers, abide by basic laws, learn the language, fly this flag, get along with the host of other people who live here, pay a fine, show papers, be asked questions, fit in.........just like everyone else has to. No they want to change this entire nation to where no-one knows where we are anymore. :twisted:

"Supposedly we are a nation of laws!"

I didn't know "That we do not impose" should be added!

I'm ashamed and embarrassed of our President (and his war criminal buddies, Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and others), Congress, Senate, and House.

We need a shaking up and not just that they are all taking ill and dying.
Too many have been in Congress and the Senate for TOOOO LONG!!!

They are out of touch with regular Americans.

Remember that there is no recession?
That gas will come down?
Oh, and the stimulus checks will be used to by goods!
Nope, they are to pay off bills and save for later ...

Bunch of freaking idiots we have running this once great country

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Originally Posted by Richard

Tencz


The figure that you quote represents foreign born living in the United States from all countries. A lot of people on ALIPAC are within that 40 mllion and surely you do not count all of them or us as not being assets to the United States.


Apropos


I wish some ALIPAC posters would stop making the same mistake.

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The fiqures i keep hearing are any wheres from 20 million up to 40 million. Government reports 12 millions . That is what i was speaking of Richard . We have , thank goodness a lot of fine people from a round the world on Alipac . Unless i'm Lou Dobbs all of a sudden please don't read in to my post a different intend :lol:

CAPS is not considered to be more than a group of hysterical alarmists by anybody outside people like themselves even within the immigration control advocacy community. I do not think that it is impossible that it will get there if there is no opposition but to overestimate only helps voices like the New York Times.

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CAPS is not considered to be more than a group of hysterical alarmists by anybody outside people like themselves even within the immigration control advocacy community.

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Whhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttt???

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The restrictionist message is brutally simple...

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...[my version]... that we can't accept all of the world' 4-5 billion people that have claimed an interest in coming here. In lieu of such thing, the best we can do is to have a system to limit entry to a relative small fraction of that group based upon a host of factors deemed important to us as a country.

Namely, that the immigrant:

1). Demonstrate economic viability as to not be a net 'charge' to the economy.
2). Show an interest in assimilating into our society, and culture
3). (following on #2)... Becoming functional in American English
4). Not pose an immediate health or safety threat to US citizens / residents
5). [etc]

We require those things because we are trying to be selective about who we let in and under which circumstances. If we were to let in everyone that wanted to come here, the US would functionally end overnight. It would be devastating to our economy, our culture, our quality of life, our environment, etc.

Update/Add: 'Restrictionist'? We allow in more LEGAL AND ILLEGAL aliens per year recently than nearly any other country (I'm hard-pressed to think of one that does more...). We have grown from 300 million as of Nov 2006 to over 304 million as of late May 2008 - that's 4 million new persons in less than 18 months. What does that make countries in the EU, Japan, etc - 'rabid, xenophobic, nativist, foreign-haters'???

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Originally Posted by Richard

A nations immigration policy is supposed to optimize the conditions for it's citizens collectively not the immigrants. That is not supposed to be NO immigrants like Tencz would have it but it is neither is it until the potential immigrants decide they want to stop coming here either. It is supposed to be up to us as a democratic country to decide how many is ideal and if they have broken our law they should not benefit by it .

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Get your head out of the sand . I was speaking of Illegals . If you are Illegal pack your bags . If not , don't worry bout it . Illegals are law breakers who have taken out jobs and depressed wages real bad . Illegals said "To hell with their Immigration Laws" i'm going to the US and once there the Mexcian Consulate will help me . oh yeah

We are not a Demacratic country....We are a Republic!


Republic......a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.

This guy lives in Bizarro world.
The best thing we can do is ignore an idiot like him and NOT buy the newspaper. I used to read it once in a while and I haven't bought it in the last 3 years just because of this. And it IS costing them. These liberal rags are bleeding bucks. Readership is dropping like a rock. Their rantings are not what the general public believes and people are turning away from them.

New York Times instruction to it's reporters
on reporting the facts of illegal immigration:
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In 2005, a report from Bear Stearns estimated that the number of IAs "may be as high as 20 million people."

It is clear to me that the government consistently and deliberately understates the number of people here illegally. They know that if the public knew the REAL number there would certainly be more outrage and alarm than there already is. Another case of our illustrious government demonstrating their olympic skill at CYA.

Is this a NYT editorial? Or a guest columnist? Well, either way, he is splitting hairs.

Why don't people get the difference between the Ellis Island immigrants and the present illegals? The Ellis Island immigrants came here TO BECOME AMERICANS. They had no intention of going back to their countries. The present-day illegals are here for jobs aka money, and THEN THEY WANT TO GO BACK.

The 3 Main Differences:
1) Ellis Island immigrants came here legally. Illegals do not.
2) Ellis Island immigrants came here to CONTRIBUTE to this country because they had no plans to go back. Illegals come here to rape us and then go back.
3) Ellis Island immigrants assimilated because they had no intention of going back. Illegals....well, need I say more?

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Originally Posted by Populist

In 2005, a report from Bear Stearns estimated that the number of IAs "may be as high as 20 million people."

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In my opinion, I think it is closer to 40 million.