Thread: Study:California will need 40 percent more water in 25 years

SENATOR TED KENNEDY ET AL.

Have the politicians give out subsidies to support the growing presence of illegal aliens then insist on legalizing them because "they are here".

CALIFORNIA WATER

Agriculture in California is done with federally subsidized irrigation. The rationale used for the import of the illegal immigrants is that it is in order to provide labor neeed for (irrigated) farms. The ecology is being damaged to bring water from the Colorado and west slope of the Sierras. Eventually the agriculture in California will decline. This should be good for agriculture elsewhere in the US. Unfortunately the change will be in order to provide the over populated cities with water.

BobC,

You're 100% correct about California and taxes. The state cannot control spending and their only solution is to raise taxes on everything. The illegals are not contributing much to the tax base since they are avoiding many of the taxes, or pay little because they frequently have low paying jobs. I don't know what the state does with the money since there is little to show for the spending. A lot of it gets thrown into the schools but it doesn't seem to improve them. We need to fix and build new roads but little of that is being done. New sources of water are needed but where are we going to get it? The state is on a path of self destruction.

Originally Posted by Richard

CALIFORNIA WATER

Agriculture in California is done with federally subsidized irrigation. The rationale used for the import of the illegal immigrants is that it is in order to provide labor neeed for (irrigated) farms. The ecology is being damaged to bring water from the Colorado and west slope of the Sierras. Eventually the agriculture in California will decline. This should be good for agriculture elsewhere in the US. Unfortunately the change will be in order to provide the over populated cities with water.

Agriculture is already rapidly declining in the state. A lot of prime agriculture land has been paved over for building, or abandoned because of soaring costs to grow. Many are selling their property to developers and getting out of farming because they are making a fortune on the booming real estate market. The profits on the land sales are far greater than what they will ever make in agriculture.

Brian I had a good friend here in Texas in the mid 90's who moved to San Diego in 1997. He just came back to Texas and we went out together the other night to catch up--he told me he couldn't handle CA anymore due to the fact that illegal immigration was "tearing the social fabric" apart. I swear to God I didn't bring up illegal immigration--he did! He liked CA but got tired of the Mexican invasion. He said corruption was everywhere because that was how they did things in Mexico.

My impression of California was oif a place that was slowly coming unglued. There was no core anymore. There was little or no unifying culture. Everybody's main interest was trying not to offend anybody, which is, I suppose, a noble idea in the abstract--- but meanwhile on the planet Earth that fear of offense equals chaos. I've lived in North Carolina, upstate NY, NYC, Washington, DC, Maryland and Texas and I've never felt the sinking feeling I felt in California. It was almost like everybody was rushing to "get theirs" before the whole mess imploded.

That summer in CA made me understand that we have something here in the US worth fighting for! I couldn't wait to get back to Texas to be amongst Americanized Americans--in other words people who spoke English! Another thing I came to understand was that it wasn't about race either--because I couldn't wait to see black people again! It's hard to explain.

I was born, raised, and lived my entire life in California. All I can say is that it has rapidly changed during my lifetime of 40 plus years, especially the last 20 years. It's now more like living in a foreign country in many places.

I'm almost to the point of moving out of state myself, but do not know where to go. I figure I need to stay around for the time being because my parents are getting up there in years, and need me around to help them. After they die I'll strongly consider bailing out of here. Hopefully there will be a decent place to move that is still American in character.

BobC isn't Texas becoming almost as bad as California? You guys have the second largest illegal population next to us, and I heard of several cities that are already more like Mexico in Texas.

It's getting there. For some reason Austin hasn't changed much, but the Dallas area is changing so fast it's unbelievable. But there still is very much an English speaking core here--unless you go further South. My downstairs neighbor is from some border town south of San Antonio and he said nobody speaks English there anymore. He says it IS Mexico now.

I ran across this article today that really shows what a bunch of liars and hypocrites are in charge. They whine about conserving electricity but now plan to punish those who were trying to do something to save. The way California is run I expect one day utilities will be a luxury for the elites. Everyone else can do without.


www.dailynews.com

DWP's green scheme

Customers who make power will pay more

By Lisa M. Sodders, Staff Writer

Despite mandates to boost renewable power sources, the Los Angeles DWP gives the Los Angeles Unified School District a discounted rate to delay its alternative-energy program and plans to charge other large customers more for generating their own electricity, the Daily News has learned.

Beginning in January, the Department of Water and Power will charge a new fee to the Los Angeles Community College District and nearly a dozen other unidentified customers that generate a portion of their own electricity, officials said.

"The fact of the matter is, they do not want you to self-generate," said Tony Fairclough, an engineering management consultant for the college district. "They want to appear to be 'green,' but they want those dollars."

But officials with the municipal utility say the new rate schedule will cover the costs of providing back-up power in case the customer's self-generating system fails.

"Our reason for doing this is not to make it less attractive to do co-generation," said Ron Deaton, the city's former chief legislative analyst who took over last fall as general manager of the DWP.

"If you're going to hook up to our system, we have certain costs that we have to bear in order to pick up your load. We don't think it's fair to the rest of the customers for one group not to pay those costs."

DWP officials also insist the utility is committed to meeting the so-called Renewable Portfolio Standard, which calls for increasing renewable power from just 5 percent of the city's energy mix now to 13 percent by 2010 and 20 percent by 2017.

Henry Martinez, DWP chief operating officer for power, said the utility is seeking proposals for renewable-energy projects and is also considering producing some alternative energy itself.

But the new rate has infuriated customers, some of whom have received millions in grants from the DWP and other entities to install generators, solar panels and other alternative-energy equipment.

After getting permits from the DWP, the Community College District installed four microturbines at Los Angeles City College and four at Valley College, with the goal of generating the electricity needed to provide air conditioning and heat the pool at the respective campuses.

"They've been there for 18 months, and we can't switch them on or we'll be hit by a bigger bill than just using the DWP's power," said Fairclough, who is being paid approximately $8,000 a month to manage the engineering and technical details for the district.

"They're changing the damn goal posts so many times, we don't know where we are."

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who called for more "green power" in his inaugural address just a month ago, said through an aide that the situation "defies common sense."

"The DWP should be doing everything possible to promote the production of renewable energy," spokeswoman Janelle Erickson said.

"(Villaraigosa) has made the greening of Los Angeles one of his priorities and believes the DWP should be leading the nation on green power."

While the DWP refused to say which customers would be affected by the higher rate, Los Angeles County officials say they have been notified they'll have to pay more for the 30 megawatts it generates for several county buildings downtown and at Olive View Medical Center in Sylmar.

Howard Choy, with the county's energy division, says he's asked the DWP for more information but hasn't yet heard back from anyone.

And in separate action, the LAUSD signed a contract with the DWP in 1997, agreeing not to pursue any alternative energy plans until 2008 in exchange for a 5 percent discount on its standard rates.

But the district has formally asked the utility to waive that provision of the contract so it can include alternative-energy equipment as it plans a $14 billion school construction program.

"They didn't respond to us," said Ken Davis, the school district's energy and utilities manager.

The DWP refused to discuss the LAUSD contract, citing an ongoing lawsuit with the district, the county and other entities over allegations they'd been overcharged millions for electricity since 1990.

But Los Angeles City Councilman Tony Cardenas, who chairs the council's Commerce, Energy and Natural Resources Committee, said he introduced a motion in April urging the DWP to invest more money in clean energy.

"In the spirit of that motion, I am going to support amending the contract (with the LAUSD), which will allow our school district to build more environmentally sound classrooms," Cardenas said. "However, we must also analyze the impact of this on the rest of the city's ratepayers, because DWP will have to supply energy to these schools if their technology fails."

The DWP isn't the only utility to struggle with "going green."

Scott Tomashefsky, senior adviser to the chairman of the California Energy Commission, said standby or backup charges are something that utilities statewide are struggling with.

"A lot of the standby tariffs have killed a lot of projects," he said.

Under the complicated rate structure that will take effect in January, a community college campus that used 1,800 kilowatts of power, but generated 180 kilowatts of its own, would pay a distribution charge of $5 per kW on the total 1,800 kW amount, plus a charge of $5.99 on the 1,620 kW purchased from DWP.

If the DWP supplied all the power, the rate would be a flat $8.25 per kW, and the total bill about $3,300 less, Fairclough said.

Matt Petersen, president and CEO of Global Green, an environmental advocacy group, said it's not surprising the DWP would balk at a large entity wanting to generate its own power.

The DWP is "a bureaucracy set up to provide consistent revenue for the city. They look at solar with a great deal of caution, and anything they don't own, they have a bias against it," Petersen said.

The DWP in fiscal 2005 transferred nearly $250 million to the city general fund.

Deaton and others with the DWP said that the municipal utility charges far less for electricity than Southern California Edison, which supplies power to three of the nine LACCD campuses.

But LACCD officials say they see substantial cost savings with SCE with each kilowatt they generate on their own. The DWP may be cheaper overall, even with the new rates, but they object to seeing their costs increase as a result of generating their own power -- by as much as $200,000 a year if the district reaches its goal of 10 percent self-generation.

The college district plans to ask Villaraigosa to intervene but also is considering other options.

"We have even considered running the new (satellite) campus at Atwater without DWP involvement," by self-generating all the campus' power with solar and natural gas, Fairclough said. "We can disconnect from DWP and they get nothing."

---
Lisa M. Sodders, (81 713-3663 lisa.sodders@dailynews.com

GREEN POWER

The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power launched its Green Power Program in 1999, with the goal of developing or purchasing renewable energy in the form of hydropower, biomass energy, solar power, wind energy and geothermal energy.

The program is funded through a voluntary premium paid by customers who want to support the program. In 2003 -- the most recent figures available from the DWP -- that included 367 commercial customers and 29,310 residential customers. The program collected $2.8 million that year and spent approximately $900,000, which included the purchase of 9,000 megawatt-hours of wind energy.

According the utility's 2003 report, customers generated 94,000 megawatt-hours of renewable energy, enough to power 15,000 homes for one year. By using renewable sources, those customers also avoided producing 162 million pounds of greenhouse gases that would have been generated by more conventional power means, utility officials say.

---
Lisa M. Sodders, (81 713-3663 lisa.sodders@dailynews.com

GREEN POWER

The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power launched its Green Power Program in 1999, with the goal of developing or purchasing renewable energy in the form of hydropower, biomass energy, solar power, wind energy and geothermal energy.

The program is funded through a voluntary premium paid by customers who want to support the program. In 2003 -- the most recent figures available from the DWP -- that included 367 commercial customers and 29,310 residential customers. The program collected $2.8 million that year and spent approximately $900,000, which included the purchase of 9,000 megawatt-hours of wind energy.

According the utility's 2003 report, customers generated 94,000 megawatt-hours of renewable energy, enough to power 15,000 homes for one year. By using renewable sources, those customers also avoided producing 162 million pounds of greenhouse gases that would have been generated by more conventional power means, utility officials say.

--Lisa M. Sodders

This is such an important thread...don't know how I missed it!

BobC...I read everything I could understand from Asimov! I remember that statement.

Part of the problem, is that Americans, to a great extent, are trying to be a bit responsible and limiting our births.

Now we're supposed to feed, and water the 3 rd world nations' offspring that they can't (poverty) or won't manage on their own?

Going back to :

http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=F ... c&p=200236

I, too, overlooked this thread until now. So many articles posted can't keep up.

Well, Brian, I understand what you feel about living in CA. I've lived here since 1956 and seen more change than I care to go into. We've become a multi-cultural state so fast. As for water, if most of ours wasn't brought in the millions of people wouldn't be here. So much of the area is desert like naturally. I truly believe if illegals were gone tomorrow we'd have plenty of water, plenty of money and we'd again be a thriving state. During the May 1st walkouts and demonstrations, byw, was great because driving around was easy instead of the usual gridlock in places.

I too would leave this state but have boys in college. Maybe someday because as it is now most politicians here fall all over themselves to be pc and not offend anyone. Thing is they offend we citizens instead.

I would tell California they made their own bed, now it's time to sleep in it, but unfortunately the problems facing California will eventually be a nation-wide problem. Why is it that every government in this country (local & national) has only one mind set and that is growth and expansion? What is wrong with stabilizing our population at 300 million? I'm an outdoorsman that enjoys hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, and wildlife observation. Unfortunately, if our country keeps heading in its current direction, my children and their children will find it very difficult to participate and enjoy these activities. When I was a teenager (mid 70's)growing up in Northeast Texas, I practically had unlimited hunting opportunities within 30 miles of my home. Now all woodlands I used to enjoy hunting, hiking, and camping on are either fenced/posted or have homes and buildings on them. Furthermore, The lakes and rivers I used to fish and swim in are overcrowded on weekends and dealing with the hoards of pleasure boaters, drunks, and jet skiers isn't worth the effort. Don't get me wrong, they have every bit as much right to the water as I have (excluding drunks of course - they need to stay off the water). The point I'm trying to make is things are getting crowded and because of it, many of the things that made my quality of life good are quickly disappering. It's only going to get worse in the years to come and my childrens children will never have the opportunity to enjoy the outdoors as I have. IMHO, the country is going to he$$ in a handbasket due to our governments insatiable quest for population and economical growth. Answer me this, what good is growth when the rich keep getting richer, the middle class is evaporating, and the poor keep getting poorer? I'm telling you, it's a sad state of affairs.