Thread: Study: Legalized Pot won't Hinder Cartels

SicNTired Good for you for slaying that Dragon, they cook that crap up in 50gal. drums now, and people havn't seen nothing til they see these freaks on they're streets at 2 3 4 5 in the morning riding mountain bikes pulling wagons and stealing anything that isn't nailed down, or grabbing some kid off the play ground the list is endless, and now mexico is cooking meth in 50gal drums Jesus I've seen that crap destroy many peoples lives.And any violent crimes from pot comes from the cartel level. The kids growin' it and smokin' it worst crime is shoplifting a bag of lays from the Piggley Wiggley. And a 180millon is a damn lotta money.Good for you SicNTired

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by redpony353

Our approach to drug addiction is wrong. We are using the law when we should be using treatment instead. You send someone to jail for using drugs but dont solve the underlying problem that caused the addiction in the first place. That is a recipe for failure. Treat drug addiction.

The cartels will go out of business if we treat drug addiction instead of trying to incarcerate it. Meantime it will create revenue for the treatment. I am not just talking about pot, but about all drugs. Where it is true that some people do have drug problems, it is also true that they are a very small percentage of the population.

I agree 100%.

I think one could isolate the issue of treatment of drug users (and I don't get in a big uproar about pot; I used it frequently for a few years and in our state small amounts are only an offense) from the issue of the government's attempts to stem the overall flow of them into the US from abroad....i.e. "War on Drugs." I think we should definitely combat the ones coming from abroad. A lot of younger people would grow out of them, probably, if they are not too addicted to the harder substances.

But changing the laws to where they (like pot) are not restricted at all could have effects we don't realize at this time.

I was on the fence about it for a long time and I DO see the point of the Govt trying to sedate us with pot, but I think alcohol is much more damaging...now THATS another substance that makes people crazy. I am definitely against making meth or H, etc. legal.

I'm sure the govt would love it if we were all drunk, stoned, high on pills and plugged into our ipods 24-7 so they could have their way with us....

Originally Posted by stevetheroofer

SicNTired Good for you for slaying that Dragon, they cook that crap up in 50gal. drums now, and people havn't seen nothing til they see these freaks on they're streets at 2 3 4 5 in the morning riding mountain bikes pulling wagons and stealing anything that isn't nailed down, or grabbing some kid off the play ground the list is endless, and now mexico is cooking meth in 50gal drums Jesus I've seen that crap destroy many peoples lives.And any violent crimes from pot comes from the cartel level. The kids growin' it and smokin' it worst crime is shoplifting a bag of lays from the Piggley Wiggley. And a 180millon is a damn lotta money.Good for you SicNTired

Thanks Steve! As a 40 year old adult - I feel like I dodged a bullet with that stuff. I'm not proud I tried it, but sure glad I didn't stick to it. I've seen sooo many throw their lives away on it.

Originally Posted by redpony353

Our approach to drug addiction is wrong. We are using the law when we should be using treatment instead. You send someone to jail for using drugs but dont solve the underlying problem that caused the addiction in the first place. That is a recipe for failure. Treat drug addiction.

The cartels will go out of business if we treat drug addiction instead of trying to incarcerate it. Meantime it will create revenue for the treatment. I am not just talking about pot, but about all drugs. Where it is true that some people do have drug problems, it is also true that they are a very small percentage of the population.

Red, not to belabor the point but the United States has drug and alcohol treatment centers out the wazoo. People will always get stoned, get drunk and cause trouble. What happens if we legalize pot and then some "genius" in S. America develops a stronger hybrid and everybody now starts using the new, stronger "illegal" hybrid? Are we then going to legalize the new, stronger hybrid just because it's pot? Once you let the genie out of the bottle it becomes impossible to get it back in. All the treatment centers are just window dressing to make the masses feel that something is being done when the truth is they have an insignificant impact on the overall numbers of abusers and addicts. In the end, it's not an addiction issue, it's a moral and personal responsibility issue. We have to draw a line somewhere.

"You send someone to jail for using drugs but dont solve the underlying problem that caused the addiction in the first place. That is a recipe for failure. Treat drug addiction."

Don't take this personally, but this thinking is the quintessential liberal drivel of the kind that has driven California into the sewer. Beautiful place but an anything goes attitude that takes away personal responsibility and lead to the kind of mess that we see there today.

Originally Posted by Captainron

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by redpony353

Our approach to drug addiction is wrong. We are using the law when we should be using treatment instead. You send someone to jail for using drugs but dont solve the underlying problem that caused the addiction in the first place. That is a recipe for failure. Treat drug addiction.

The cartels will go out of business if we treat drug addiction instead of trying to incarcerate it. Meantime it will create revenue for the treatment. I am not just talking about pot, but about all drugs. Where it is true that some people do have drug problems, it is also true that they are a very small percentage of the population.

I agree 100%.

I think one could isolate the issue of treatment of drug users (and I don't get in a big uproar about pot; I used it frequently for a few years and in our state small amounts are only an offense) from the issue of the government's attempts to stem the overall flow of them into the US from abroad....i.e. "War on Drugs." I think we should definitely combat the ones coming from abroad. A lot of younger people would grow out of them, probably, if they are not too addicted to the harder substances.

But changing the laws to where they (like pot) are not restricted at all could have effects we don't realize at this time.

People do not decide to use drugs based on whether it is legal or not. They do it because they want to. And when it comes to addiction, having it against the law just will not cure addiction. There is an underlying problem that exists with addicts. Why can some people drink and not become alcoholics but others do? If the underlying problem is never addressed then that person is trapped for years until the pain of the addiction becomes worse than the pain of their demons. We can make all the laws we want....but in the end addiction is a social and medical problem, not a criminal problem.

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Originally Posted by redpony353

Our approach to drug addiction is wrong. We are using the law when we should be using treatment instead. You send someone to jail for using drugs but dont solve the underlying problem that caused the addiction in the first place. That is a recipe for failure. Treat drug addiction.

The cartels will go out of business if we treat drug addiction instead of trying to incarcerate it. Meantime it will create revenue for the treatment. I am not just talking about pot, but about all drugs. Where it is true that some people do have drug problems, it is also true that they are a very small percentage of the population.

Red, not to belabor the point but the United States has drug and alcohol treatment centers out the wazoo. People will always get stoned, get drunk and cause trouble. What happens if we legalize pot and then some "genius" in S. America develops a stronger hybrid and everybody now starts using the new, stronger "illegal" hybrid? Are we then going to legalize the new, stronger hybrid just because it's pot? Once you let the genie out of the bottle it becomes impossible to get it back in. All the treatment centers are just window dressing to make the masses feel that something is being done when the truth is they have an insignificant impact on the overall numbers of abusers and addicts. In the end, it's not an addiction issue, it's a moral and personal responsibility issue. We have to draw a line somewhere.

"You send someone to jail for using drugs but dont solve the underlying problem that caused the addiction in the first place. That is a recipe for failure. Treat drug addiction."

Don't take this personally, but this thinking is the quintessential liberal drivel of the kind that has driven California into the sewer. Beautiful place but an anything goes attitude that takes away personal responsibility and lead to the kind of mess that we see there today.

There are treatment centers, but they dont treat the underlying cause of the addiction. They are places to dry out and "just say no"....not actual treatment centers. Until we understand and actually TREAT the underlying causes, addiction will continue. This is not an "anything goes" attitude. Quite the opposite. Treating the underlying cause or causes of addiction is taking the bull by the horns. Let me ask you this.....if criminalizing addiction is so effective, then why does addiction continue to rise? The war on drugs has been in operation for how many years?

Originally Posted by Captainron

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by redpony353

Our approach to drug addiction is wrong. We are using the law when we should be using treatment instead. You send someone to jail for using drugs but dont solve the underlying problem that caused the addiction in the first place. That is a recipe for failure. Treat drug addiction.

The cartels will go out of business if we treat drug addiction instead of trying to incarcerate it. Meantime it will create revenue for the treatment. I am not just talking about pot, but about all drugs. Where it is true that some people do have drug problems, it is also true that they are a very small percentage of the population.

I agree 100%.

I think one could isolate the issue of treatment of drug users (and I don't get in a big uproar about pot; I used it frequently for a few years and in our state small amounts are only an offense) from the issue of the government's attempts to stem the overall flow of them into the US from abroad....i.e. "War on Drugs." I think we should definitely combat the ones coming from abroad. A lot of younger people would grow out of them, probably, if they are not too addicted to the harder substances.

But changing the laws to where they (like pot) are not restricted at all could have effects we don't realize at this time.

All these drugs are illegal now and it's not stopping anyone from doing anything. It's time to learn from the failure of good but misguided intentions and legalize, regulate and tax under the FairTax the illegal drug trade which allows licensed US citizens only including their corporations to grow, produce, manufacture, distribute and sell these products legally under the civil restrictions of regulations that among other things regulates the age of the purchaser and the quantity and quality sold. This will put the foreign drug cartels out of the business. This will give our civil law enforcement the chance to actually control the flow of drugs away from minors, to ensure the quality of the drugs are as safe as they can be and the quantity sold at any one time is limited to small personal use amounts. A portion of the taxes collected will pay for the regulatory agency, which will use fines and loss of license to enforce the regulations, education to ensure that Americans know all the risks and consequences of using drugs, and free rehabilitation on demand without stigma for anyone who wants or needs it ... all paid for with the FairTaxes paid only by drug users.

Are there certain drugs that should be illegal? I don't think so, but I wouldn't object to it. I just know from the history of the War on Drugs that if you don't legalize it all, you won't stop the foreign drug cartels. To stop the foreign drug cartels and thus gain any control over the US drug trade, one has to legalize, regulate and tax the industry, require only US citizens own and operate it, and then stop worrying about it.

We're a free nation of free citizens and if some adult wants to use drugs, that's their business. Parents worried about their kids using drugs, need to know where they are, who they're with and what they're doing. Most kids use drugs in their own homes. So please don't come knocking on my door to fund a $70 billion a year law enforcement effort to try to stop them, an effort that has failed every year of its existence while letting an international foreign drug trade feed them all the drugs they want and suck over $300 billion a year of US money supply out of our country in the process. This illegal drug trade keeps our borders open and while billions of our hard-earned money pours out of the country, millions of illegal aliens pour in to run the trade.

Those who believe in personal responsibility need to understand that personal responsibility means it's personal, and no one else's business, let alone someone else's responsibility to waste trillions of dollars over the life of this War on Drugs trying to stop you from hurting yourself by ruining your life, career and tearing your family apart with arrests, prosecutions, incarcerations and felony records under the false flag of "we're the government and here to help you" and all over what? Smoking pot? Snorting cocaine? Shooting heroin? Sucking crystal meth? No. It's not our responsibility to stop you from hurting yourself by hurting you with law enforcement that causes greater harm than the drug itself. No. The War on Drugs isn't about personal responsibility. It's about the complete opposite.

It's time to be Americans and walk down the street without seeing a terrorist or crack-head behind every lamp post.

In 1913 before any of these drugs were outlawed, the drug addiction rate in the US was 2%. Today, after outlawing these drugs and waging a War against our own people in the process, the addiction rate in the US is still 2%.

We've arrested 31 million Americans in the past 20 years on non-violent drug charges. We incarcerate almost 800,000 Americans a year in federal and state prisons for convictions of non-violent drug offenses. We spend over $70 billion a year on these activities. We sacrifice privacy and liberty over the War on Drugs that with reasonable suspicion allows any SWAT gang to invade your home and kill you and your pets "looking for marijuana growing in the home."

Now they're using the same strategy to look for "homegrown terrorists".

It's time to take our country back starting with taking back our drug trade, running it ourselves, regulating it like we do every other US production, taxing it with the FairTax like any other product, and using part of the taxes to better educate Americans on the real risks and consequences, and free rehab for anyone who wants or needs it. Then we can truly secure our borders and send all the illegal alien mules back home to their country of origin where they belong and keep them there.

Oh, and lest we forget, 7 to 1 of those 800,000 prisoners whose liberty is denied them because they smoked or sold some pot or coke or other drugs are black, when there are 7 times more whites in the US than blacks, and blacks and whites use drugs at the same rates.

It's time to end this madness and legalize, regulate, and tax the illegal drug trade.

For more information:

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP):

www.leap.cc

Great video with many good facts about this failed and racist War on Drugs:

http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php?name=Content&pid=28

Double ditto to everything Judy said. Great post Judy.

Originally Posted by redpony353

Double ditto to everything Judy said. Great post Judy.

Thank you redpony353.