Thread: Talk of immigration march rekindles debate on the Web

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/01 ... _20_06.txt

Talk of immigration march rekindles debate on the Web

By: Readers of the North County Times and The Californian

Editor's note: The debate over illegal immigration flared up in Web comments posted in response to William Finn Bennett's Jan. 17 story, "Immigrant activists plan march on D.C." Here are some excerpts; join the conversation at nctimes.com.

Tony: "I am a Hispanic and appalled by our country's failure to enforce immigration laws, but I saw this coming long ago with everyone letting it happen.

"And I am tired of these polls that clump all Latino voters, as if we all are in agreement with illegals overrunning our borders instead of waiting their turn like everybody else. Polls show that is not true when you separate the participants of these polls between illegal, recent, second- and third-generation immigrants."


Raymond: "If you follow the news today (Thurs. Jan. 19), you'll hear that a new audio tape of Bin Laden has surfaced, promising new attacks inside the U.S. Now I don't believe in freaking out every time there's another tape from al-Qaida (after all, their point is to terrorize), but if and when such an attack occurs, you can bet that the al-Qaida terrorists entered the country over the U.S.-Mexico border. ...

"It's shameful after 9/11 that our borders are so open, and we have millions (likely 15m+) of foreign nationals in our country illegally. Until that border is truly secure and the illegals have been returned to their home countries, we will remain very vulnerable to terrorist attack."

Gino: "The U.S. government will do nothing until American blood is spilled. Sad state of affairs."

Frances: "Wow! After reading all these blatantly hateful comments it saddens me to know that so many people will be disappointed, one way or another, because there will never be an end to illegal immigration. If Mexico and the U.S.A. do not reach a resolution to the illegal immigration problem, your anger and frustration will be infinite.

"I can understand your resentment; after all, illegal Mexicans are becoming more and more successful than their counterparts. Illegal Mexicans buy homes, own businesses, receive a higher education, pay taxes, etc. They do all this and more, retaining a strong unfaltering love for Mexico, regardless of that country's tribulations.

"I know it is frustrating and you feel a sense of relief expressing yourself. It is good to have an outlet, but your comments will not stop illegal immigration until there is a resolution by both countries."

Nick: "My father and I were in the construction business, and making great money to boot. We worked hard every day. Yet, now we couldn't get that kind of work and make decent wage because you 'illegal immigrants' drive down wages by accepting work to the lowest common denominator.

"There is nothing special about you for 'working hard.' What is special about you is that you'll accept any work for low wages. There is no dignity in stupidity. Working hard at stealing jobs and breaking U.S. laws does not earn you the right to citizenship, voting rights, and public benefits in the U.S.A.

"If you want to change your lot in life, go back to Mexico and get rid of your corrupt politicians sitting in the casa on the hill."

Ivana: "My parents brought me to this country illegally 15 years ago. I hold a college degree which I paid for myself and I am still an illegal alien because law doesn't allow me to change my status. After living here for 15 years, I wish I could go back to my country but I don't know what my country is anymore.

"I understand that this country's citizens need to be protected against terrorism and crime but what about people like me? Have we forgotten what this country stands for?"

John: "All of you just look at your table and think: Who do you think is picking up your vegetables and fruits? If you don't want illegal immigrants, then why don't you lazy Americans do the job? That's the reason why every country in Latin America hates you. Because you are lazy."

Michael: "Maybe next month, it's the bank robbers ---- they are just trying to get rich and support their families. After all, they killed only a few people. Maybe a march against the robbery laws."

Sweet!

W

John: "All of you just look at your table and think: Who do you think is picking up your vegetables and fruits? If you don't want illegal immigrants, then why don't you lazy Americans do the job? That's the reason why every country in Latin America hates you. Because you are lazy."

So all of us Americans are just lazy and could not possibly survive without the hard work of the illegals? Well, if we are all just a bunch of lazy, fat slobs who can't do anything for ourselves and illegals from Latin American countries are such hard working, wonderful people, by simple logical reasoning you must infer that America is a third world dump and places like Mexico must be beautiful paradises on earth where all the people live lavish lifestyles in total luxurious opulence, where their every need and want is instantly catered to. So why wouldn't they want to go home to their own countries and live in sumptious induglence where everything is so fantastic and leave us stupid, fat, lazy, racist morons to wallow around in our own feces.

"Maybe next month, it's the bank robbers ---- they are just trying to get rich and support their families. After all, they killed only a few people. Maybe a march against the robbery laws."
_________________

best line of the week !
ps if americans are lazy then explain why we have an infrastucture - schools etc that the Not So Lazy Mexicans dont have?

There are so many illegals working at jobs that any american would be forced out- try Madonalds in Oregon on xxxxxxxx. every one speaks spanish there - only the manager is american.
same with the Car wash next door-

There is no dignity in stupidity.

Great line!

"Ivana: "My parents brought me to this country illegally 15 years ago. I hold a college degree which I paid for myself and I am still an illegal alien because law doesn't allow me to change my status. After living here for 15 years, I wish I could go back to my country but I don't know what my country is anymore."

If she was smart enough to get a college degree, she should have been smart enough to apply for legal status and meet the deadlines like plenty of other people have. Also with her skills, she should be welcomed in her own country because she could offer them so much.

Someone needs to find that blog and post about ALIPAC to tell people where we are organizing the Resistance.

W

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Someone needs to find that blog and post about ALIPAC to tell people where we are organizing the Resistance.

W

Looks like the comments were from this article. You will find them at the bottom of the article.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/01 ... 192913.txt

Roberto wrote on January 19, 2006 7:25 PM:"John, when I grew up here in Carlsbad, we kids did those jobs, picking flowers, tomatoes and strawberries. Also, fast food , car wash and gas stations. We earned money while going to school. Now these GD illegal aliens have taken those jobs along with commiting crime and filthing our streams and public bathrooms. Let's face it, we could easily invent a machine to do the picking as they did for corn and soy beans. We simply have too many un Americans which choose to back criminals, like you John. Enabler. "

Tony wrote on January 19, 2006 10:55 AM:"I am a Hispanic and appalled by our countries failure to enforce immigration laws, but I saw this coming long ago with everyone letting it happen. And I am tired of these polls that clump all Latino voters, as if we all are in agreement with illegals overrunning our borders instead of waiting there turn like every body else. Polls show that as not true when you separate the participants of these polls between illegal, recent, second and third generation immigrants. We have created a social problem with recent Mexican and Central American immigrants, were we have many sons and daughters of Illegals instead of legal immigrants creating an environment that does not see it as wrong, after all there parents were illegal. The border must be enforced and the now old theory of the melting pot must be brought back or we stand to loose what America once stood for."

Frances wrote on January 19, 2006 10:48 AM:"In response to Gary's comment, about "why do so many people come?" it is because they know that there will be work for them SOMEWHERE. As long as you can cross the border it is like a guaranteed job. Another reason people come here is because it is very dangerous to live in their countries, so they are also fleeing violence and instability. A good movie to watch is Voces Innocentes, it is about El Salvador in the 1980's. And to Gino, your are right, especially since just a couple of weeks ago someone trying to cross the border was killed by an agent. Potential crossers and coyotes are going to feel the need to protect themselves and it will be a mess. "

bryan wrote on January 19, 2006 8:02 AM:"Analysis of the latest Census data indicates that California's illegal immigrant population is costing the state's taxpayers more than $10.5 billion per year for education, medical care and incarceration. Even if the estimated tax contributions of illegal immigrant workers are subtracted, net outlays still amount to nearly $9 billion per year. The annual fiscal burden from those three areas of state expenditures amounts to about $1,183 per household headed by a native-born resident. "

Raymond wrote on January 19, 2006 7:42 AM:"If you follow the news today (Thurs. Jan. 19), you'll hear that a new audio tape of Bin Laden has surfaced, promising new attacks inside the U.S. Now I don't believe in freaking out every time there's another tape from al Qaeda (after all, their point is to terrorize), but if and when such an attack occurs, you can bet that the al Qaeda terrorists entered the country over the U.S.-Mexican border (the same border Congress wants to start a fence at, and the same one monitored by the Minutemen). It's shameful after 9/11 that our borders are so open, and we have millions (likely 15m+) of foreign nationals in our country illegally. Until that border is truly secure and the illegals have been returned to their home countries, we will remain very vulnerable to terrorist attack."

Raymond wrote on January 19, 2006 7:37 AM:"Getum - The Minutemen go away when the millions of illegals go home. Simple as that. If you have a problem with patriotic Americans working to secure our borders because the federal government has failed to do so, then why don't you come up with a solution to return the illegals to their home countries (where they can apply to come here like all legal immigrants do). Then the Minutemen will have nothing to do. Of course, if you are for open borders, you wouldn't really want that, would you? "

Gino wrote on January 18, 2006 8:43 PM:"The US goverment will do nothing untill American blood is spilled. Sad state of affairs."

Getum wrote on January 18, 2006 5:41 PM:"Where do we deport the minutemen when we get tired of them? Who do we call to turn in senile armed idiots?"

Gary wrote on January 18, 2006 4:30 PM:"Why do so many people come? Some people suggest that the flow is inevitable because so many people are poor. But around 4.5 billion people in the world are more impoverished than the average citizen of Mexico, and nearly all of them choose not to break our immigration laws. A small fraction of 1% of them are enticed to come to the U.S. illegally because of the letters and news stories they get back home about how the U.S. federal government refuses to enforce its immigration laws most of the time."

Skip wrote on January 18, 2006 2:36 PM:"When people enter this nation illegally they are in violation of United States’ law upon crossing the imaginary line between Mexico and Canada. All of their acts are illegal because they are here under illegal circumstances. The American worker will speak loudly during the electoral cycle. Jobs and the middle class in this country are under assault. Being able to have a job paying a living wage and being able to afford a home is the basis for homeland security. We in this nation are in a fight for our own homeland security. Must we all become minutemen again for our own protection?"

Frances wrote on January 18, 2006 11:29 AM:"WOW! After reading all these blatantly hateful comments it saddens me to know that so many people will be disappointed, one way or another, because there will NEVER be an end to illegal immigration. If Mexico and the USA do not reach a resolution to the illegal immigration problem, your anger and frustration will be infinite. I can understand your resentment, after all illegal Mexicans are becoming more and more successful than their counterparts. Illegal Mexicans buy homes, own businesses, receive a higher education, pay taxes, etcetera, etcetera. They do all this and more, retaining a strong unfaltering love for Mexico, regardless of that countries tribulations. I know it is frustrating and you feel a sense of relief expressing yourself. It is good to have an outlet, but your comments will not stop illegal immigration until there is a resolution by both countries. For the record, Mexicans have protested several times in Mexico for a resolution to the problem. Also, by the year 2020 Mexicans will be 34% of San Diego's population, not including the millions of visitors from Tijuana who come to this country everyday to buy goods. The San Diego - Tijuana region is the third largest latino market in the USA and it will continue to grow legally or illegally. "

CSB wrote on January 18, 2006 3:23 AM:"Illegal means just that,NO! rights! Jail & Deportation !!!"

Nick wrote on January 17, 2006 11:40 PM:"My father and I were in the construction business, and making great money to boot. We worked hard every day. Yet, now we couldn't get that kind of work and make decent wage because of you "illegal immigrants" drive down wages by accepting work to the lowest common denominator. There is nothing special about you for "working hard". What is special about you is that you'll accept any work for low wages. There is no dignity in stupidity. Working hard at stealing jobs and breaking US laws does not earn you the right to citizenship, voting rights, and public benefits in the USA. If you want to change your lot in life, go back to Mexico and get rid of your corrupt politicians sitting in the casa on the hill."

Dear 'John" wrote on January 17, 2006 9:46 PM:"Before you call others lazy, you should look at what they have accomplished in their country, and then compare it to the one you come from. Even with your small minded, and racist point of view, it should be easy to see that millions of people aren't crossing the border to go live illegally in Mexico. Why would they? - not even the natives want to live there, in fact they risk their lives to leave. If you're not happy with where you come from, then work to make it better. Like the citizens of the United States have done. The taxpayers of the U.S. just can't support billions of foreign nationals who are 'too lazy' to fix their own country, so they just cross the border expecting the taxpayers of the U.S. to meet their every outrageous demand, and then 'excuse' them for violating the laws of our country. Grow up little man, and stop listening to those who fill your head with racist nonsense designed to make you as angry and resentful as they are."

Skip wrote on January 17, 2006 9:34 PM:"India, and China like Over-Population coming to a town near you. Thousands of Central Americans illegally cross the 600-mile border between Guatemala and Mexico every day on a long and dangerous trek toward the U.S., part of a global mass movement driven by a steadily widening gap between rich and poor countries. The number of international migrants doubled between 1985 and 2005, now stands at 200 million, and is expected to increase, according to the U.N.'s Global Commission on International Migration, The United States is the world's top destination for international migrants, legal and illegal. 85% of the United States Illegal Aliens come from Mexico. You should be afraid of the exploding Over-Population coming to the United States. "

Rae wrote on January 17, 2006 9:28 PM:"I would strongly suggest that rather than planting crosses for the dead, while they should always be remembered, your time and efforts would be much better spent dedicating your efforts towards educating the hordes that come here ILLEGALLY in how to fill out the appropriate applications to come here LEGALLY and wait their turn in line. It is appalling that these people feel that ILLEGAL ALIENS have more rights than those immigrants who come here legally. ILLEGAL ALIENS SHOULD HAVE ONE RIGHT ONLY: DEPORTATION. Ivana I am sorry that you are caught in the middle, however it is your parents that are to blame. If you don't know "what your country is", then I would suggest that you ask them so that you can get the information necessary to apply for citizenship. Every day that you live and work here you are breaking the law. This country was built on the backs of immigrants, including my own ancestors, who came here legally and worked hard. You had it much easier than my ancestors did. They worked in the factories. Nobody handed them a college education on a platter. To quote Mike Scott, the inscription on the Statue of Liberty reads "I lift my lamp beside the golden door...", it says nothing about criminals sneaking under fences, falsifying documents, or burrowing underground to break into the country and steal the American Dream. John, concerning where my vegetables come from, I grew up in midwestern farm territory and worked my summers bailing hay, so I know what hard work is and how to do it myself. Americans have always done the jobs that needed to be done. We will manage just fine without the ILLEGAL ALIENS who break through our borders without going through health checks and cough on our foods. I saw just the other night on Fox News that there is a major outbreak of Hepatitis A in Los Angeles, due to an ILLEGAL ALIEN working in a restaurant there. I certainly hope that you haven't eaten there recently."

shane wrote on January 17, 2006 7:22 PM:" If i broke into your house, ate your food, raped your wife, stole your money, gave your child an incurable disease, murdered your neighbor and wrecked your car, would it be ok if i was just looking for a better life?"

Gil wrote on January 17, 2006 7:14 PM:"Controlling illegal immigration is an honorable goal. The USA has a right to protect its borders. It has a right to admit legal entrants. Businesses have an obligation to hire only legal workers. If not, they only encourage the continuing flow of illegal immigrants. Businesses need to stop exploiting individuals by paying them low wages. I think most businesses would prosper if they paid their workers adequate wages and provided reasonable accommodations to their guest workers. Mexico has an obligation to create jobs that provide decent wages to their citizens. They need to discourage the annual flow of immigrants who venture into dangerous deserts to find work in the USA. Employers need to provide benefit to their workers (all legal workers). They need to provide insurance, disability, and retirement benefits to their workers (all legal workers). "

Ivana wrote on January 17, 2006 5:30 PM:"My parents brought me to this country illegaly 15 years ago. I hold a college deegre which I had paid for myself and I am still an illegal alien because law doesn't allow me to change my status. After living here for 15 years I wish I could go back to my country but I don't know what my country is anymore. I understand that this country's citizens need to be protected against terrorism and crime but what about people like me. Have we forgotten what this country stands for?"

Amy wrote on January 17, 2006 5:27 PM:"John wrote on January 17, 2006 3:36 PM:"All of you just look at you table and think who do you think is picking up your vegetables and fruits. If you don't want illegal immigrants then why you lazy Amricans do the job. Thats the reason why evry country in Latin America hates you.Because you are lazyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy " ------------------------------------------ I have news for you John, who the heck pick the veggies and fruits in the past? AMERICANS DID Go back to Mexico and improve your stupid country. "

John wrote on January 17, 2006 4:54 PM:"Why is it that not all messages are posted? Is there someone in this newspaper that is working for only certain people. This is in regards to all those who are outreagesly speaking againts illegal immigrants. Why messages that speak againt those are not posted? Bunch of lazy americannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn........."

John wrote on January 17, 2006 3:36 PM:"All of you just look at you table and think who do you think is picking up your vegetables and fruits. If you don't want illegal immigrants then why you lazy Amricans do the job. Thats the reason why evry country in Latin America hates you.Because you are lazyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy "

Tom wrote on January 17, 2006 3:14 PM:"Frances, your "dream" is America's nightmare. Get on the bus, go to Mexico, and help their government change so Mexicans can realize their dream in Mexico, not here. The times they are changing, again."

Gary wrote on January 17, 2006 2:25 PM:"As long as everyone is in a caravan they should be escorted back to the Border by the Border Patrol, and let them demonsttrate in thier own home country of choice. I really think there are enough Illegal Aliens in this country to last us for awhile. Its time to take back control of our borders and control our Country's Destiny."

Roberto wrote on January 17, 2006 12:37 PM:"Hahahahahahahahaha, it's gonna be a long fruitless bus ride. Why would any elected official try to protect someone committing a crime? ILLEGAL ALIEN !!!!!"

Jean wrote on January 17, 2006 12:16 PM:"Having divorced a former-illegal alien from Mexico for alcoholism and being an ex-farmworker and native-born Californian and part American Indian, I have only 1 thing to say: DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS AND REVOKE THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL, ILLEGALLY-ACQUIRED, PHONY "U.S. CITIZENSHIP" AND DEPORT THE ILLEGAL-ALIEN ANCHOR BABIES AND THEIR ILLEGAL ALIEN FAMILIES AND NEVER ALLOW THESE BLOOD-SUCKING LEECHES TO ENTER THIS COUNTRY EVER AGAIN AS LONG AS THEY LIVE!!! "

Michael wrote on January 17, 2006 12:03 PM:" Maybe next month, its the bank robbers - they are just trying to get rich and support their families. After all, they killed only a few people. Maybe a march against the robbery laws...."

Robin wrote on January 17, 2006 11:44 AM:"Very good point in this article. If these groups are so concerned about human right violations they should go to MEXICO and work on Fox and his corrupt government. Why don't they visit Mexican President Fox with their caravan and insist that MEXICO take care of ITS citizens?"

Frances wrote on January 17, 2006 9:32 AM:"In light of the recent celebration of the late Martin Luther King, I am astonished at the disgust of SOME, who spit in the face of dream. Perhaps the MARCH is idealistic and will bring little result. However, illegal immigration can not be resolved by one country alone. And to simply blame one country or another is irresponsible and cowardly. Americans and Mexicans deserve a resolution to this Imigration Epidemic. "

Carlos wrote on January 17, 2006 7:30 AM:"I'd like to thank Mr. Morones and the rest of the gang for their efforts. I had been misled into thinking that legal immigrants and Latinos in general had exactly the same rights as any other citizen. It is this kind of commitment for all things legal and legitimate that make Mr. Morones one of the few civil warriors whose mental state does not get in the way of a good cause. Now, maybe he and his "posse" of immigrant rights activists can march on the Palace of San Lazaro in Mexico and on Los Pinos (Vicente Fox's residence, Ceement Pond and all, as Ellie Mae Clampet would say)and let them know how they, the mainstream of immigrant thought feels about the socioeconomic apartheid that they lord over and which expells hundreds of thousands of their countryment as illegal aliens onto our country. Yes, making Mexico a more equally economical facsimile of the US, now that would be a righteous cause for these blowhard bullies who take advantage of our exceedingly permissive laws and rights to further the cause of a foreign country with which they hold ties and government meetings. This too would appear to be a ploy by Mexico to sway the conscience of our senators and voters. Our laws are not just some ink ornamentation on a sheet of paper. They have been passed because We The People expect ththat our civil servants enforce them. Mr. Morones should have learned that by now."