Thread: Violence Erupts at Protest against Minutemen Event!!

don't have the right to just wave our hands and have our will imposed on the land.

ACE, it seems that we've not expected to have our "will" imposed upon the land...........we've beein waving our hands expecting the Gov't, both Fed & Local to..... UPHOLD THE RULE OF LAW.

Imho, that makes a world of difference in our "characterization."

{my 2 cents}

The point is: There are a lot of people on the OTHER side of this issue, too. They have their rights, too. We anti-illegal immigrant crusaders don't have the right to just wave our hands and have our will imposed on the land.

You need to clarify this statement. What do you mean that we can't have our will imposed on the land? We are entitled to be here and the illegals aren't. The illegals have no rights other than an immediate deportation. They should have no say in how things should be. Please clarify this statement because I'm having a hard time grasping this. If we the people want our laws enforced and want the illegals to be gone then my golly it's gonna happen, it better happen. The government works for us, not the illegal aliens. Those pressure groups that support them (the vast minority that they are) should be in prison for treason, not being allowed to create chaotic situations like the ones with the MMP and at Baldwin Park.

Can't impose our will on them? Remind me again what country I live in?

Believe me DMan, I understand where you're coming from. Let me put it this way. I've smoked pot off and on for the last 30 years, even though its illegal. There are laws against it, even though half the country does it. I believe in playing by the rules, following laws, etc. and if I get busted for pot I'm not gonna' cry about it because I know its against the law and I did it anyway (don't do it anymore, think pot is a noxious habit, but thats another story).

The point is: i suspect a lot of us don't always follow laws that we feel are unjust. Just as a lot of people sincerely feel that these illegal immigrants are being unfairly discriminated against, which is why they flout the law and are doing everything in their power to change the law (the McCain-Kennedy Gas-bag bill being the latest). I disagree with them. I've heard all their lame-(Oops!) justifications and rationalizations for allowing these illegal immigrants to be here in this land. ANd I disagree with every one of them. Thats why I'm here at this forum. My point was....well, I forget what the hell my point was. I guess that I just wanted to temper everyone's frustation, and their feelings that "the system is broken" and that our only recourse is violence. I feel violence is a last resort, and we're still far from that last resort. We're just getting going.

Today on one of these sites, someone listed all the different corporations that support La Raza. It was a formidable list. Even if 80% of the AMerican people want these illegal immigrants to GET OUT, don't forget that there are some powerful forces allied with the other 20%.

SOmeone pointed out that Proposition 187 was the "will of the people" but then our votes were nullified by one judge who (Oops!)-canned the thing. "See, the system is broke," he said, using this as a justification for some form of violent revolution. I told him: "Politics is a dirty business full of sleazy backroom deals. Stop the presses. But violence and war is an even dirtier business. With no guarentee of success there, either."

Believe me, like I said in another post: "I'm not one of those candy-(Oops!) guys that says 'Violence is never the solution.' I've lived on the streets off and on for 30 years, and I can tell you, sometimes violence is the ONLY solution. When you got your back to the wall, sometimes, a good slap in the chops is the ONLY thing that gets through to some of these clowns." That said, I think Proposition 187 in 1996 was just our FIRST shot. We're just getting started. We've got to be patient, even as we're fighting a battle against the clock. Thats just MY perception. Everybody has the right to draw the line where they see fit. I'm just saying -- as somebody who's lived in Berkeley for years and have heard the armchair revolutionaries with their calls to violence: (Oops!) Screw war. I ain't fighting one.

The point is: There are a lot of people on the OTHER side of this issue, too. They have their rights, too. We anti-illegal immigrant crusaders don't have the right to just wave our hands and have our will imposed on the land. America don't work that way. but we ARE winning the battle for the hearts and minds. The point is, we have to be patient and allow the system to work.

If the supporter of the OTHER side were ONLY within the law and the constitution...I'd be more amendable to argument.

Right now, I want to start suing people right and left.

RR

2ndammendsis: When I said "we don't have a right to just wave our hand" and have our will imposed on the land..... Well, we probably DO have the "right." I guess i was just trying to be realistic. We are in the process of reversing 40 years of disastrous liberal social-engineering. I was just making the point that we are not going to reverse that trend with "the wave of our hand." We've got to be patient. Unfortunately.

And I think we need to sharply focus on just precisely WHO the 20% are that are circumventing the will of the people. Reversing this disastrous trend is going to require a sophisticated form of SURGERY, as opposed to crude blasts of violence or upheavel (my opinion). We have very powerful forces allied in the 20%, who have become entrenched in their positions of power over the last 40 years. And quite frankly, we've going to have to uproot THEM before we can uproot these illegal immigants.

I'm talking about 1.) the powerful corporations who are are making billions, feeding off the illegals like so many dumb cattle.

I'm talking about 2.) the liberal, "race-card" playin', ambulance-chasin' lawyers -- like the ACLU and the Southern Poverty Law center -- who have been making fortunes off these people.

I'm talking about 3.) the Hollywood media elite, and the major newspaper editors across the country who are overwhelmingly in support of illegal immigration and mass immigration.

And I'm talking about 4.) our whore politicians, who are bought-and-sold by the above elites.

Its true that the illegals themselves have no "right" to impose their will on us. On the other hand, the corporate, media, and political elites probably don't have any "right" to do this, either. But they certainly might have the power. Which is why they've been getting away with this for the last 40 years.

The point is: i suspect a lot of us don't always follow laws that we feel are unjust.

Sounds like a new slogan for the open borders crowd "Lots of Americans don't obey the law, why should we". I'm just razzing you, but at the same time trying to point out how flawed your logic is. BTW I for one don't have a problem obeying the law, except when I got two tickets for speeding a few years ago, but I paid the price for it and moved on.

Just as a lot of people sincerely feel that these illegal immigrants are being unfairly discriminated against, which is why they flout the law and are doing everything in their power to change the law (the McCain-Kennedy Gas-bag bill being the latest).

Just because they scream louder then we do doesn't mean they are high in number. They are a vast minority of radicals, remember that. Of course they try to paint us as a vast minority of radicals too. There screaming, ranting and raving while being backed by powerful big business elites makes them look alot bigger than what they really are.

My point was....well, I forget what the hell my point was. I guess that I just wanted to temper everyone's frustation, and their feelings that "the system is broken" and that our only recourse is violence. I feel violence is a last resort, and we're still far from that last resort. We're just getting going.

I'm sure you read my post concerning my opinion that I feel a civil war is brewing in the near future. I for one have never said violence is the only option. No violence is the last option, I agree. But with that being said, if these perps try to take this country by force when push comes to shove, I'm going to give them the fight of their miserable, pathetic lives and if I die god forbid, I'm taking as many of them with me as humanly possible. Same goes for any invader of my country, Mexican or otherwise.

I'm not saying we need to resort to violence, but we need to be prepared to defend ourselves and our country at all cost. God forbid the day of the civil war comes, we all need to be prepared to defend ourselves and our country to the last man/woman and child. As long as I'm breathing air I will not go quietly in the night, I can tell you that. All I'm asking is for everyone here to keep my words in the back of their minds that this could get ugly soon and end with blood in the streets. I don't want to see that happen, but I'm being prepared just in case the worst happens. Better to be safe then sorry IMO.

"Politics is a dirty business full of sleazy backroom deals. Stop the presses. But violence and war is an even dirtier business. With no guarentee of success there, either."

Oh we will win if a civil war breaks out with the illegals in this country because I for one have no quit in me. I know that Americans have no quit in them. I know the lords with me so I know I can't lose regardless of what happens. This country has overcome all the odds, so why wouldn't it overcome an invasion from a pathetic third world nation such as Mexico? If I should die, at least I will die with dignity and honor which is something these rats would never comprehend much less be able to do.

It's interesting to say the least that we are going through all of this trouble to root out an invading force. Other than pansy Europe and Great Britian (who seems to be reversing course a little) what other country would put up with this garbage? Malaysia hunts them down and punishes them severely. They might even shoot them in some cases, IDK. Go to another country and hang up a foreign flag and see what happens. Go to another country illegally and demand the sun/moon and the stars and see what happens.

Our kindness is a major weakness and will be the death of this great nation I'm afraid to say.

DMAN wrote

I'm not saying we need to resort to violence, but we need to be prepared to defend ourselves and our country at all cost. God forbid the day of the civil war comes, we all need to be prepared to defend ourselves and our country to the last man/woman and child. As long as I'm breathing air I will not go quietly in the night,

Yup, our RIGHT TO SELF DEFENSE can never be forsaken. {I know I sound like a broken record} Americans on a whole, will NOT go quietly into the night. So, if you don't know how to defend yourself, for heaven's sake, go learn!

Well said, DMAN. There are a great percentage of Americans who have "no quit" in them. When push comes to shove, WE amaze even ourselves, LOL.

DMan. I hear you. And I think we're probably about 99% in agreement on this issue. I think it was worthwhile to kick this around a little here, if only to clarify our feelings about some very subtle and complicated factors involved in all this.

Originally Posted by bot_feeder

Hey, did you guys see this one?


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/n ... 59,00.html


And I thought I'd seen it all .......

It's just too sad. I can't take it anymore!