Thread: What Would We Do if All the Illegal Immigrants Left?

Well, Man, why don't you describe them for us? The last time I saw it, it increased enforcement and authorized troops to the borders. Has something new been added? Please share it with us. Congressman Tancredo has been one of the strongest proponents to ending this Nonsense and has introduced several legislations in attempts to do this. To my knowledge, his legislations are totally in sync with those who want our laws enforced.

If this is not the case, please inform us.

Thanks so much.

Thanks Judy, and nice to have you back at the keyboard.

I've noticed some excellent rebuttal points from you, Tim, and Dman. Ms. Poisl does provide an e-mail address with the article, perhaps Brian or ALIPAC, or somebody could send an e-mail to Ms. Poisl inviting her to come and review the thread and hopefully broaden her scope of understanding a bit.

I don't know what "Live and Thrive" is all about as when I click on the link all I get is a garbled bunch of HTML code. I do know that for any species to Live and Thrive, whether it be bears, panthers, prarie dogs or humans, the species must have a physical environment conducive to living and thriving. If the species surpasses what they call the carrying capacity of the environment it begins to die off (which isn't living) and/or they don't have access to the resources (like decent housing with heat in our case) to provide for basic needs (which isn't thriving). I know it is easy to dismiss this stuff when it has not yet come to your own neighborhood and not at your own back door. But, there is already pretty good proof. Look at the LA area with its high population and abundance of illegal aliens and compare that with a midwest town with few or no illegal aliens. I've seen lines three blocks long for a few hotel jobs in LA and we all know housing is priced out of reach for most. Most folks in that midwest town will have access to at least adequate (but maybe modest) housing and a decent enough job (or at least they did before globalization). What did all those illegals really do for LA? I suppose there is more cultural diversity there, but one can eat only so much culture. Or, if one really wants a harbinger of the future one can go to Mexico City and see folks living in the landfill or to the interior and see the tin shack houses on hill sides -- not much living and thriving there, in my opinion.

The human species, and others I suppose, also needs freedom to live and thrive. Too many of our newer immigrants, both legal and illegal, are coming from socialistic and communal type environments rather than the rugged individualist culture of personal freedom and responsibility that is American. Because of that we will and are seeing a cultural and governmental shift where the few in government are allowed to make more and more decisions (supposedly for the common good) that were once personal decisions that allowed the individual in America to thrive. Besides that, as we become more densely packed and "diverse" it justifies more government control in order to avoid conflict and to keep us from killing each other.

As hinted at above, we are not the only species that desires (or has an instinct) to live and thrive. I suppose we do have the knowledge and the ability to wipe most every other larger species off the face of the earth, but I think we should also have the wisdom and the compassion not to do so -- to allow them a place to live and thrive as well. Bears are being killed in Alaska and mountain lions are being killed in South Dakota for no other reason than human encroachment into their habitats because of population pressures caused 90% by immigration. Those bears and mountain lions are rapidly losing their chance to live and thrive. And, we are in many areas running out of buildable land with adequate resources like water so we have to recognize the limitations sooner or later anyway.

NumbersUsa has a pretty good graph of what we have gotten ourselves into here:
http://www.numbersusa.com/overpopulatio ... uture.html

but there is a better animated graph of what we will be getting ourselves into by going to http://www.numbersusa.com/ and holding the mouse pointer over "Where we're headed" along the right side.

I noticed that since I started to write this, there are already some posts that made some of this a little redundant -- like the invitation to Ms. Poisl. I also may have gone over the line a little for ALIPAC in discussing the effects and consequences of total immigration rather than just illegal immigration -- but illegal immigration is a huge chunk of total immigration and this year the majority of immigration (according to the PEW report). Also, I think you will find that legal and illegal immigration are at least somewhat intertwined with each one influencing and driving the other. Congress could open the borders and make everybody "legal" and we would still have the same problems, although extremely exacerbated, so at times I think it is appropriate to consider the whole enchilada.

Judy, in my opinion both you and man are correct. There are bills pending and being considered that would change the law (for the better, I think) such as ending the diversity lottery, reducing legal immigration to 100,000, and Tancredo does have a true guest worker provision in his bill that would actually emphasize the word "guest" rather than something like come to lunch and stay forever.

However, many of the provisions in the bills do nothing more than attempt to force the practice of the law to coincide with what most of us think the spirit of the law already is.

Blue Hills and SO RIGHT YOU ARE!!

Americans need space and nature and horizons.

Americans need clean air, clean water, healthy animals, secure wildlife, birds in our trees, worms in our lawn, honey bees and butterflies, and fox and bear and elk and all God's Creatures including toads, bats, and many others that we do not fully appreciate.

We can not survive in a happy and healthy environment without them, because they ARE our environment. They make our world go round. They are the eco-balance that allows our survival as consumers and top predators of the environment.

If we consume to too much through our predator instincts, then we end up killing ourselves.

Over-population of the planet is the single greatest threat to life on Earth.

WE start by controlling our population here where we have the authority and others will follow suit.

If the current powers succeed in over-populating the USA, then only dreary and violent chaos will result. Americans less than any other people on earth can tolerate over-crowdedness with no place to escape it.

ROAD RAGE--is a perfect example of how little tolerance Americans have for cramped spaces.

AND some months ago it was more or less decided that EXCESS IMMIGRATION was a problem right along with illegal immigration. The objectve is to stop unnecessary migration into the USA--illegal and excess legal. The US can absorb certain amounts of legal immigration but those in Congress are going wild trying to transfer the illegal to the legal. That defeats the Will of the American People which is to control and limit the number of immigrants to a number that is helpful rather than harmful to the American People. We have far exceeded that number creating all the problems Americans see everyday with over-crowded schools and emergencies rooms; people looking for jobs that don't exist unless they steal one from an American; shortages in housing; shortages in money; shortages in services and benefits.

Excess immigration including the illegal and legal is the problem we are all working to stop. So, no, you have not crossed the line.

Wonder where she is??? Doesn't have the guts to put her plan to the test? Doesn't think it could survive real scrutiny?? COWARD??

And, Man--I would also like to be enlightened to any changes in Tancredo's plan that ALL of us MUST have MISSED. Maybe we missed something but we are ALL operating under the assumption that his plan calls for ENFORCEMENT of EXISTING LAWS--something that this administration is LOATH to do. Just bring those NATIONAL GUARD troops back home from Iraq and let them do what they were charged with doing--protecting AMERICA from INVASION.

Originally Posted by Bootsie

And, Man--I would also like to be enlightened to any changes in Tancredo's plan that ALL of us MUST have MISSED.

Bluehills didn't miss it.

Okay, I believe we are in a semantics conflict. Each year, the number of legal immigrants into the US is decided by the US Congress. If there is a bill to limit this number to 100,000--then that is not a change to US Immigration Law but the new proposed number for next year's allowance and may be structured as a CAP on legal immigration until we get all this figured out, something many of us having been working towards. There will be 20 other bills submitted by others on how many legals to admit. This is legislated every year.

I did not recall a "guest" worker in Tancredo's bill. Was this added recently? WE are all opposed to a "guest" worker program of any kind. Is he defining it for the existing temporary worker visas so it can be better enforced? I do not recall Tancredo advocating any new program that brought any new immigrants into the US.

WE all need to stay on the alert because there is going to be a frenzy of bills.

WE need no bills other than one that forces the Executive Branch to ENFORCE the law. WE do not even need that legally. WE only need that to tell the Wackident to either do his job or go to jail.

Man, still waiting for your information.

Thanks.

Maybe Wacko President WILL go to jail. OR, at least, CHENEY could go to jail. Then Wacko wouldn't know WHAT to do and WE could help him out!

Waiting for an explanation on Tancredo's bill. If his bill mentioned ANYTHING about a guestworker program, we have ALL missed the mark.

Bootsie, you've got that right. NO GUEST WORKER PROGRAM....NADA.

We need to get word to Tancredo to take whatever it is he's said about "guest workers" OUT OUT OUT OUT of his bill.

Geezzzz...take you eyes off these guys for a second and see what happens? Probably a staffer did it or maybe it's not what Man thinks it is. Hopefully, Man will find the bill and post it so we can go over it with a Fine and I mean VERY FINE TOOTH COMB.

I just find it VERY difficult to believe that there's something in Tancredo's bill that ALL of us have missed. Seeing is believing. Trust but verify. I will wait for Man to come forth with "the goods" before I jump to a conclusion that we've all missed something THAT IMPORTANT to ALL OF US.