Thread: Why is being an enemy of the US in Latin America a bad thing

Why is being an enemy of the US in Latin America a bad thing?

Because the United States can help us with Democracy and Freedom


This discussion comes from here :

http://www.kucinich.us/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 19401060d6


It is extremely important that Americans understand why the US still counts in Latin America and that the subcontinent should be defended from Chavez. And also that Americans understand that their best ally in Latin America, Colombia, deserves to be defended from that perverted Madman.


Eridani, you said :

Why is being an enemy of the US in Latin America a bad thing? Aren't most opponents of CAFTA and the like enemies of the current US ruling elite? The current government of the US has all but declared war on its own citizens as well.

I know that he has been accused of helping FARC, but mainly by people who have very self-interested motives.

The people in Venezuela he is arming seem to be mainly poor people who don't want their country invaded by the US, which in light of the coup a few years ago would appear to be a real possibility that he has to plan for.

The FARC Guerrillas of Colombia are killers of children and women. They are the worst thugs in the whole world. I know of no other country with such perverts and depraved sadists.

They have sown the fields of Colombia with land mines that kill or main children every day. Many children without legs and in crutches.

The FARC is superterrorist and coward, very fond of using bombs against innocent civilians.

They are 100 times more depraved than the Paramilitary. Even if the last guys are also murderous. But not so perverted.


The FARC has three American Citizens kidnapped for the last two years or more. Poor Guys, I hope they are not forgotten, and also thousands of Colombian hostages for ransom.

They ask ransoms several times for the same hostage, and ransom for the corpse after they murder the kidnapped victim. They also kidnap children for ransom.


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Chavez has helped the Guerrillas in every possible aspect, with diplomacy, with verbal enocuragement, harboring the FARC terrorists as guests, etc ...

Chavez does not like Democracy, Liberty, Freedom, Free Press, Private Initiative, etc ...

He hates the USA, he has squandered 10 Marshall Plants. ( Big Oil Prices )

I can prove that Colombia has More Healthy Private Business than Venezuela. There are serious studies from American Big Banks.

Colombia has a better Economic Future than Venezuela. The Colombian Private Corporations are bigger and more competitive internationally. From the 100 biggest Andean Corporations 45 are Colombian and Venezuela has only Big State Monopolies to show in that honor list.

Venezuelan Oil has been useless for the poor. Colombia is getting ahead of Venezuela because of Capitalism and Freedom.

The Poor Country will become Rich, the Rich ( Oil ) Country will become poorer and poorer.

Even in the Middle of Civil War Colombia is prosperous in sound and healthy private business, private initiative, private individuals without governmente interference or subsidies. Exactly the opposite of Venezuela. I have data from American Banks and Serious Studies.

The US dollar constantly collapses in Colombia and the government has bought 5 billion dollars to stop the dollar's fall. That is also caused by international investors buying Colombian Business. In August Colombia bought 1 billion dollars to stop the crisis and avoid the peso having such exaggerated value. The dollar fell 25% and has not recovered a single 1% after such horrible efforts of a super poor country. ( We are not an oil ocean like Venezuela, Arabia or Iraq ).


But Colombia needs to be defended from the Madman that gives support to the FARC.

If a meteorite destroys America then Chavez will invade Colombia Next Day.


Vicente Duque

Vicente; By now you can get the sense that most Americans don't really care what your problems are down there.

What they want is a government that stops interfering in foreign concerns, and pays strict attention to the concerns of Americans not some foreigners. We can do without coffee and coke.

Given the extreme class differences your elite down there have fostered with the help of our own corporate elite, it is small wonder that your Country has spawned a terrible reaction to this social inequity in the form of the Farc. If columbia disappeared into some other Nation that provided equity and a government that could offer something to its people, I would not shed a tear. You make the bed, LIE in IT!

yw; the FARC Guerrillas of Colombia are killers of children and women. They are the worst thugs in the whole world. I know of no other country with such perverts and depraved sadists.

I'll take your word for it, after all they are YOUR people. I barely consider Columbia a Nation, given its inability to control just about anything within its borders. cheers glenn

Natural Glenn :



Thanks for post. Friend !!

Be cheerful. You Americans invented cheerleading !!

Be optimistic. All problems have solutions. The United States is not going to sink. Colombia is not going to sink.

In fact there is some prosperity now in Colombia as I told you before.

It is a good idea that our two countries be friends and not enemies.

We gain a lot by being friends.

The fact that I am opposed to the Andean FTA as it stands now does not mean that I hate Americans or that I don't like you. In fact I admire you.

My opposition is a matter of business and money. I wouldn't sign economic and political harm to Colombia.

The Andean FTA is a poor business deal for Colombia. We can do better elsewhere with other customers or partners.

It is all that simple.


Vicente

Vicente; given what your #1 export to this country has been, and the damage it has caused, I assure you, we cannot really wait for so worthless a nation to be sucked up by some group that has control over your anarchy.

I am only sorry that we are involved with such a group prone to failure, in fact the coke industry is your best example of success. pah! We do not need your economy, or anything from there for that matter.

Our basis as a Nation ruled by LAW, irrespective of economic advantage, Shall soon return. Be on the right side of it. Could be a conundrum for elite columbians, they owing so much to corruption. The game comes to its end.

This said, it is OUR Sovereignty that will rectify OUR Country, and as I can see, with no real economy, and no sense of control, the "crapitalism" you describe has no future in your Country, nor in my own.

WE RECTIFY!

Be on the SIDE of IT! Populism will define America, SOON!

glenn

Glenn :


Latin America is not so poor as almost everybody imagines in the USA.

CAFTA buys more from the USA than Australia, CAFTA buys more from the USA than Russia + India + Indonesia, all of them combined.

Colombia buys much more from the USA than Russia, after so many efforts of decades on the part of Americans to sell in Russia.


The Colombian Government bought recently 5 billion dollars after the dollar's fall of 25% in value here.

It is impossible to explain all those numbers by Cocaine, Morphine or any other narcotics.

There has to be some type of prosperity here in other products different from narcotis. That is the idea or the best experts in money exchange here.

The explanation has more to do with Foreign Investors buying Colombian Businesses, With Exports, Payments, etc...

Trade per se is not a bad thing, but Trade Agreements can be wrong and wild. As it is the case with the Andean FTA.

Thanks for your friendship and interesting opinions.


Vicente Duque

Vicente; 5 billion dollars while a great sum, is about what the US is currently paying a month to do whatever it is we are doing in Iraq.

Our economy with Canada dwarfs all other Nations, more goods and services transit the Detroit -Windsor bridge as trade with any given Nation, even china.

My point is that, what many of us want is a nation that prefers to build here as opposed to overseas, whatever the economics. Many a profitable business has been run out of decrepid conditions. Hopefully that isn't the economy we want to see as citizens. As long as Latin America has its endemic problems of poverty and exploitation (that we here are suffering the consequences of, in the form of illegal immigration) how can we be real trading partners? Cafta won't work for Columbia either, no doubt.

Now in the context of Columbia what is it that makes you figure that Columbia is worth our investment in, given the past reckoning? glenn

Vicente--I have an honest question for you and I'm not being sarcastic. I have noticed, being a big old sociology, history, anthropolgy nerd, that there is a direct correlation between a Third World Nation's economic/political chaos, and the low level of education of most of the populace. The nations in the worst shape, mostly African nations and Haiti, are also the least educated.We can talk about poverty, corruption, land mines, and trade all day long but until the prevailing societal opinion is one that doesn't value education, I don't see the nations south of us rising much in terms of quality of life.

So--what needs to be done to give people access to education? And if access is there, will they take advantage of it?

Yes Vicente, what should be done BESIDES American money, wealth and capital moving South to "fix" the problems?

Have not our antibiotics, medicines, health and sanitation technologies, and electronic contraptions including the Internet helped your nation a great deal already?

It's hard to be good neighbors when one set of neighbors keeps illegally entering your property en mass.

W

Glenn and BobC :



Thanks for your interesting messages.

Sorry for the problem of Illegal Immigration or Excessive Legal Immigration.

It would be better if it is possible to stop immigrants before they emigrate from their native countries.

I think that a lot can be done in that respect to avoid emigration, by creating better education and health conditions. And by not ruining the Economies of the Tropics by signing foolish FTAs.

A lot has been done by the USA to help Latin America in HEALTH, EDUCATION, SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, CULTURE, ARTS, ECONOMY, ETC .... and in particular Help to Colombia has been great and we should thank that.

I understand the reasons why you don't want to come here to Colombia to visit your friend Vicente, but perhaps one day things can change ( wishful thinking ??? )



************


And now, let's go to ECONOMICS :



5 billions dollars is a trifle for the United States, Japan, Canada, Germany, Australia, England, etc ..... ... the Richest and Most Advanced Nations.

But it is a lot of Money for a poor third world country. 5 billion dollars to support the value of the US dollar from falling. Because the dollar fell 25% in value in less than a year and that was killing exports of Flowers, Coffee, Bananas, Garments, Ceramics, Plastics, Chemicals, Fruits, Crafts, etc ...

In one month ( August 2005 ) the Central Bank had to buy 1 billion dollars and the price of the dollar still collapses.

Everybody is surprised here by this phenomenon. All predictions failed because the dollar does not increase its value. This can not be explained entirely by Cocaine or Morphine. It is impossible taking into account crop areas, logistics, U. S. Customs, Colombia clamping down and extraditing narcos continuously to the USA. Your jails are filled to the top with Colombian Narcos.

Something is failing in Economic Theory, and Narco Theory.

I think that the best explanation is FOREIGN INVESTMENT. Private citizens of the USA have bought "Big Business" here in Colombia recently, particularly the Biggest Beer plants ( South African SAB Miller ), Tobacco plants ( Phillip Morris ) .... Communications ( Southern Bell ), etc ...

The Mexicans of TELMEX want to buy the Colombian telecoms but the Controllers of the Nation have created obstacles.

All those investors bring a lot of U. S. Dollars. A boom in Exports also helps the Influx of Dollars.

The Big Front Page News here is that a research shows that the public on the streets has an exaggerated amount of dollas and euros in cash money inside the pockets. There is no need for that and it is very dangerous for the Economy. It brings the collapse of exports.


*****************



The past and present of Colombia is very sad, but perhaps we are not condemned in the future to poverty if we take up business and entrepreneurship.

And we should have a favorable attitude to Americans ( or the US Government ) in any way.

You know that I was a fan of NAFTA and CAFTA and I wanted to receive the Americans with open arms, embraces and kissses here for the ANDEAN FTA. I always admire the USA and the Americans.

However, I began reading in painstaking detail all the provisions that are being discussed for the ANDEAN FTA and I became horrified.

Many reasons persuaded me that this is the worst business deal for Colombia. This Andean FTA seems to be written by DR MENGELE.

The USA has been so tough with Colombia in this Andean FTA that I am totally persuaded that the Great Nation of the North is not going to change the Hard and Harsh provisions against Colombia.

The Ruin of Colombia will produce something that you don't like in ALIPAC :

SUPER SUPER SUPER EMIGRATION.

The lowest classes put pressure on the higher classes. If the lower classes become beggars then the middle classes would like to buy a ticket for the Northern Hemisphere.

The Pressure for Emigration is a TRANSITIVE feeling, the poorest force the middle classes to go out.

I hope that we can work together to avoid this NIGTHMARE.


Vicente Duque

Vicente; the main problem with our currency depreciation is purposeful for those to whom the US owes money. We owe tons, the devaluation of our money is a way to inflate our way out of debt. It is a time honored paper monetary tradition. In the end this is ALWAYS how it goes.

In fact those to whom we owe money really no longer want dollars, as they know the currency is being purposfully devalued. Would you? Should you?, is a better question.

It is no surprise that we see 40% increases in the price of crude oil and other commodities, when the currency (US) itself has lost around that much(35%) against the successful currencies in the 1st world. Namely the Euro.

Sadly, any Nation that hitches its wagon to American currency will suffer the same fate as the currency. We don't feel it as much, as we PRINT the money, or simply create it as number, out of thin air, something Columbia cannot do. You have to provide something to get the dollars.

What the world that has options, of who to sell their goods to, are discovering, is that if you are going to sell for dollars, you are going to have to sell for MORE of them! I wouldn't make any long term price contracts with any American companies in the near term. By signing on to cafta, you tie your own hands. As have we. Those who have done this to both of us, have done so for narrow interests, and are not interested in developing fair trade. Time for you to DUMP them, whoever they are in your Country. We are trying to dump our own that have done this. When this is done, deals can be made in good faith.

If I were the middle class, or upper middle classes of Columbia I don't know that I would want to commit to american companies that are not even commited to Americans, to assure my future. I might, as is happening, start dealing with Europe or Asia, as a more stable and lucretive market for my commodities. That would be my advice until America is done with its fiscal bloodletting.

The problems the good people of Columbia have with narco-terrorists does not seem to be improving even with US help. I sense that this has something to do with the fact that the Columbian people have yet to come to grips with destroying these forces within, by exclusively their own hand.

Our "help" is meaningless apparently, as we have just as many junkies here, and there is just astounding amounts of Columbian coke from any
State, as well as up into Canada. I might consider that Columbians have to face destroying narco-terrorists and the farc before it destroys them. Dealing with and accepting help from the US under its current or past administration plays into the hands that currently control your destiny.

Time to fight, hard.

Don't expect help and it may come from the most unlikely of places.

Meanwhile I cannot see a change in your Country visa vis narco trafficing while there are still millions of americans packing their noses with coke, and mexicans to move it. cheers glenn.