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  1. #1
    Senior Member dman1200's Avatar
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    William and others PLEASE READ!

    Please contact the clown who wrote this hideous article

    http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/n ... 793585.htm

    Posted on Thu, Jun. 02, 2005
    Click here to find out more!

    Collapse of in-state tuition bill bad for N.C.

    Making college more affordable for `illegals' was a sensible step

    HILDA H. GURDIAN

    Special to the Observer

    The Observer reported May 27 that the N.C. bill that would allow undocumented students to attend college at in-state tuition rates died before it had a chance to be voted on in the legislature. According to the article, talk radio shows spelled its death knell.

    I simply don't understand why Americans -- who themselves are descendents of immigrants -- have such angry, resentful attitudes toward those who come here to improve their lives and the lives of their children.

    Yes, I understand that many people contend that "illegal" immigrants are just that -- in violation of the law -- and therefore shouldn't be rewarded for it. But using that line of reasoning, shouldn't we then punish any person who has ever broken any law -- or the children of such a lawbreaker -- by refusing them affordable college tuition?

    Some people fear that accepting undocumented immigrants to our state colleges will mean other citizens won't be able to get in. But the proposed bill is not guaranteeing a college education to every undocumented student. Students must meet the colleges' admission standards. We're looking at a relatively small number of admissions. No one qualified for college is going to be left out.

    Some people equate this bill with giving a handout to an undeserving group of people. But it's not a handout. In-state tuition means that parents have to come up with more than $11,000 every year (out-of-state is more than $20,000). For someone who makes around minimum wage, $11,000 is a lot of money. In addition, the children of illegal immigrants can't receive federal grants or other financial aid that other students get, so these families' out-of-pocket costs are even higher than for most other citizens.

    And how can people paint this group as undeserving? Immigrants, especially undocumented Latinos, make a tremendous contribution to the economic development of our state. They work in menial, low-wage and often dangerous jobs that most citizens don't want. Taxes on their wages contribute to our state and federal coffers. They are a tremendous source of cheap labor, which in turn keeps the price of goods and services down.

    I know many people believe that undocumented immigrants don't pay taxes. But they do. They pay sales taxes, payroll taxes and even Social Security taxes (which they will never see a dime of in their old age).

    I know there are many who think that if you don't offer any benefits to undocumented immigrants -- in-state tuition, driver's licenses, welfare -- they will simply leave. But they won't. They have risked everything to come here. Even if they have to continue to live in society's shadows, it's preferable to what they came from. Then we have a different problem. If our country doesn't try to help these people, they will be more likely to break laws -- forge identity documents, drive without a license and without insurance -- and turn to a life of crime -- drugs, robbery, etc. -- in order to survive.

    Despite their parents' illegal status, the children of undocumented immigrants are not bad by association. Many of these students are valedictorians, honor students, award winners, class presidents and student leaders. They have excelled in our schools and show every promise of excelling as adults in our workplaces and communities if just given a chance. In most cases, this country is home. They grew up here, they speak the language, they know the culture. If they are smart and well-rounded, but their parents toil in minimum wage jobs, what are their prospects without higher education? Not good.

    And that's not just their problem. It's a problem for all of us. These young people will have to work in menial jobs. They will not pay as much in taxes. They will not be able to afford health insurance or school lunches. They will tax our social services and health care systems. They may become tempted to a higher-paying life of crime, therefore burdening our criminal justice system.

    I know many Americans are distrustful of all immigrants because of the terrorist threats our country has experienced. But to paint all undocumented immigrants with the same terrorist brush is counterproductive and simply wrong. Denying children a higher education is not an answer to the terrorism problem. The solution is comprehensive immigration reform. We must identify and protect law-abiding immigrants so can we begin a process of identifying those who wish our country harm.

    The bill proposing in-state tuition to undocumented students was a sensible, compassionate step toward helping those who have incredible potential. It stood to benefit our society, not hurt it.

    After all, a better-educated immigrant will be less likely to turn to crime, more likely to make a better income and more capable of contributing to our tax base and to the betterment of our world.

    Hilda Gurdian is the publisher of La Noticia, The Spanish-Language Newspaper, and proud to be a U.S. citizen. Write her at

    hgurdian@lanoticia.com.
    Please support our fight against illegal immigration by joining ALIPAC's email alerts here https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  2. #2
    Senior Member jp_48504's Avatar
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    email sent....
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Dear Ms. Hilda Gurdian

    Publisher, La Noticia, North Carolina’s Largest Spanish-Speaking Newspaper

    I read your article that you placed in the Charlotte Observer and wanted to share my opinion with you as you were able to share yours with the readers of the Charlotte Observer, our largest newspaper in North Carolina.

    The In-State Tuition Bill for illegal aliens is not in the best interest of the people of North Carolina as this will make more seats available to foreign nationals and fewer available to citizens of our state.

    Why would North Carolina Citizens elect to give up their seats in colleges and universities to citizens of other countries?

    Why would you, as a Proud American Citizen, ask them to?

    Perhaps, you are not aware of the condition of the United States. As of 2003, the latest US Census Bureau information available, the poverty in the United States is as follows:

    Poverty Rates:

    Black Americans – 34%

    Hispanic Americans – 29%

    ALL AMERICANS – 17.67%

    Education is a means to raise one up and out of the poverty cycle. As you can see, there are more poverty-stricken citizens of the United States than we have jobs and educational opportunities to accommodate. As you can see, there is much work here in the United States that needs to be done to sustain American Citizens and provide them free and equal protection under the law. Giving away their educational opportunities to foreign nationals of foreign governments, would be a violation of those civil rights under any circumstance and would be a move to intentionally keep these Americans suffering in poverty from having their fair and equal chance to compete for every one of the seats in our colleges and universities not to mention fair and equal employment opportunity to secure a job post-graduation with the advantage of a college degree.

    In my opinion, any support of the In-State Tuition Bill for illegal aliens is an attempt to undermine the American People, its laws, its constitution and its future.

    I hope you will print my letter in your newspaper because I’m sure most of your readers are American Citizens and Legal Residents who may not understand the real affect this In-State Tuition Bill would have on them and the Future of their Children, not to mention our great country.

    I would like to know why you support this bill and would write an article in favor of it.

    I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest opportunity.
    A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
    Save America, Deport Congress! - Judy

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  4. #4
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  5. #5

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    This was my reply to her:

    Dear Ms. Gurdian,

    I wanted to share with you a few counterpoints to the arguments you op/ed piece presented. I’m sure you’ve probably already received a number of strongly worded, anger inducing, disrespectful and rude emails. I hope mine is not counted among them. I would like to think I opposed the In-State Tuition bill for more rational reasons than just ‘they’re illegal and that’s all that matters’ perspective.

    In your piece you stated you don’t understand how Americans who are themselves the descendants of immigrants could object. I can only speak for myself, but I know that my family waited several years for the necessary visas to enter the US back in the early 1900’s. Since then, my family has worked in fields, owned fields, become citizens and fought in the wars of this country. On the walls of my home are the Certificates of Naturalization of my wife and my step-son. What differentiates the background of my family, and countless millions of other immigrant Americans, is that we arrived here legally. Those still waiting on the lists of various countries visa quotas can only wait, objecting from across oceans, watching another opportunity appear and disappear. All this while the ‘undocumented’ student your opinion piece champions is able to grasp many of these opportunities just for having followed their parents across a border.

    I will grant you the number of students this bill would have affected would be small. But there is no way around the issue that for every single student this bill allowed into a North Carolina school, there would be an American citizen or a legal resident denied the seat now filled by that ‘undocumented’ student. There are only so many seats to fill, so no matter how you phrase it, this bill *denies* a citizen or legal resident a college education.

    You defend the illegal alien by saying that they do the jobs that most American’s don’t want to do. This is only partly true. The influx of inexpensive labor has kept wages in those occupations unacceptably low. Make no mistake, the fault is not only with the ‘undocumented’ laborer, it rests squarely on the shoulders of the unscrupulous employer who hires them. Keep in mind that businesses do not just want cheap labor, they want ‘illegal’ labor – laborers they can subjugate, laborers who dare not organize and compete for higher wages, laborers who feel bound to continue working even in hazardous conditions and without the security of employer afforded health benefits. This is the labor business wants, and you’re right, Americans won’t work in those jobs in those conditions. I would like to think your energy would be better spend trying to stop this criminal activity. A word of experience here – in 1978 I worked in the construction business and a Mason earned about $18.00 an hour – today, an illegal alien doing the same job gets paid about the same.

    Perhaps the most telling argument you presented was this:
    “I know there are many who think that if you don't offer any benefits to undocumented immigrants -- in-state tuition, driver's licenses, welfare -- they will simply leave. But they won't. They have risked everything to come here. Even if they have to continue to live in society's shadows, it's preferable to what they came from.�
    The most culpable party in this entire equation is the government of the nation from where these people have fled. It is not America’s responsibility to fix the corruption and poor management of other countries (although we have on too many occasions and to much regret). The resources and personnel in other countries are available, but it serves the purposes of the wealthy in those nations to keep from exploiting those resources and instead only exploit their people. This is a shame, but it is not a reason that my son or daughter should be denied, my tax dollars spent, and the laws of my nation ignored.

    Lastly, the idea that this bill would have assisted these hopeful and deserving student (and yes, the student may be deserving – just ineligible) to improve their lives is again, only partly true. One of the stipulations of the bill was that a student must ‘sign an affidavit saying they have or will begin the process of becoming a legal resident’. There was no provision in the bill to ensure this happened. Further, there is no provision stipulating what would happen if the student did not follow through on the commitment the affidavit implied, nor was there a provision stating what would happen if for some reason the student’s visa application were denied. There were just too many dangling threads and unforeseeable byproducts to allow this bill to become law. Finally, the process of becoming a legal resident can take years, longer than most college educations even. What does a college educated illegal alien do for work? You guessed it – they work illegally – this time in jobs that many American’s *would* do.

    I do hope my arguments may provide you with some insight as to why this bill was a bad bill. It is a good idea, a noble gesture, but bad law.

    Thank you for taking the time to read yet another response.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin

  6. #6
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Rarius--great email letter to Ms. Gurgian.

    May I suggest you email your letter to:

    JMorrill@charlotteobserver.com

    as should everyone who wrote Ms. Gurgian!!

    Say: Judy asked that I forward this letter to your attention.
    A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
    Save America, Deport Congress! - Judy

    Support our FIGHT AGAINST illegal immigration & Amnesty by joining our E-mail Alerts at https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

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