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  1. #81
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Sigh. No. It's pathetic how you can't get anything right.

    I gave my mother's situation as an example to Beezer of someone who would not have their own photo ID, because a driver's license expired, they don't drive any more, and it would be a big hassle to go get a state photo ID.

    You called if a "scenario", referred to my mother as a "crippled little old lady in a wheelchair", and laughed joyously at her situation. jtdc called her situation "spin".

    In another response to Beezer about voter suppression, I made the point that photo voter ID will impact Republican turn-out and you were incensed that I would suggest that Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot suppressing their own voter turn-out with voter photo ID.

    I never ever suggested that there be some special exemption or exception for seniors, I never even suggested that there be some special exemption or exception for the disabled of any voting age.

    Most voters have a photo ID, so it's not a problem for them. However, it is both a hassle and voter suppression for any citizen registered voter who doesn't have for whatever reason, an unexpired photo ID to present on election day in order to vote which your post on Texas giving seniors a free pass on 6 year renewals fully acknowledges, because Texas Republicans don't want to lose the turn out of senior citizens who don't want to be hassled about a photo ID when they may no longer be driving for some reason.

    The reason we have these conversations is because of illegal immigration. We all know or at least believe that illegal aliens are using state issued drivers licenses to register to vote. The states say no that they mark that license and illegal aliens are not being registered. We don't believe that's true and somehow they're slipping through the system, being registered and and voting in US elections. That is the issue, not citizen voters. What voter photo ID seems to me to actually do is deprives citizen voters without photo ID the ability to vote on election day while illegal aliens with drivers licenses sail through the polling booths.

    Citizen voters who don't have their photo IDs for whatever reason on election day are not the problem. The problem is 30 million illegal aliens operating in the United States. Voter photo ID isn't going to solve that problem. At least I don't see it. They'll be here with or without drivers licenses, voter registration, E-Verify or any other desk solution people want to put their hopes on, because they'll be here until we physically and forcibly remove them from our soil and shut down the foreign drug cartels that are behind illegal immigration into the United States.

    The real question facing Americans is whether or not we have the guts and resolve to do that. Illegal aliens, drug cartels and the open borders lobby are betting we don't. 15 years ago I would have bet everything that we do. Today, 15 years later, I still hope we do.
    Last edited by Judy; 05-18-2018 at 08:21 PM.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    I gave my mother's situation as an example to Beezer of someone who would not have their own photo ID, because a driver's license expired, they don't drive any more, and it would be a big hassle to go get a state photo ID.
    You volunteered the example. And if they can get to the polling place to vote, they can certainly get to the DMV to get photo ID. And, that isn't necessary if they vote by mail. So you "spin" it by only allowing one situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    You called if a "scenario", referred to my mother as a "crippled little old lady in a wheelchair", and laughed at her. jtdc called it "spin".
    He laughed at your scenario, and it was spin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    In another response to Beezer about voter suppression, I made the point that photo voter ID will impact Republican turn-out and you were incensed that I would suggest that Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot suppressing their own voter turn-out with voter photo ID.
    Then why are Democrats the ones up in arms about requiring voter ID? It is because they know that without illegal voting, it will affect them negatively! Open your eyes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    Most voters have a photo ID, so it's not a problem for them. However, it is both a hassle and voter suppression for any citizen registered voter who doesn't have for whatever reason, an unexpired photo ID to present on election day in order to vote which your post on Texas giving seniors a free pass on 6 year renewals fully acknowledges, because Texas Republicans don't want to lose the turn out of senior citizens who don't want to be hassled about a photo ID when they may no longer be driving for some reason.
    It's a "hassle" to have your mailbox cluttered with all those solicitations. There are all sorts of hassles. But if getting photo ID is such a hassle, voting must be a whole lot bigger hassle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    The reason we have these conversations is because of illegal immigration. We all know or at least believe that illegal aliens are using state issued drivers licenses to register to vote. The states say no that they mark that license and illegal aliens are not being registered. We don't believe that's true and somehow they're slipping through the system, being registered and and voting in US elections. That is the issue, not citizen voters.
    And one of the solutions is to make sure those voting are who they say they are and that they are legal U.S. citizens. The "honor system" doesn't cut it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    What voter photo ID seems to me to do is deprives citizen voters without photo ID the ability to vote on election day while illegal aliens with drivers licenses sail through the polling booths.
    Why is that? Because the illegal aliens went through the "hassle" to get the driver's license.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    The problem is 30 million illegal aliens operating in the United States. Voter photo ID isn't going to solve that problem. At least I don't see it.
    Vision problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    They'll be here with or without drivers licenses, voter registration, E-Verify or any other desk solution people want to put their hopes on, because they'll be here until we physically and forcibly remove them from our soil and shut down the foreign drug cartels that are behind illegal immigration into the United States.
    BUT THEY CAN'T VOTE! A bogus argument!

  3. #83
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    If they can get to the polling booth, it's because they want to do so and if they do all that it takes to get there, they should be able to vote. You're saying people like this are to be mocked, disrespected, called "crippled little old ladies in wheelchairs", and the source of a big funny day on ALIPAC making fun of "cripples" and "little old ladies". I'm sure that offends many members of ALIPAC and the public interested in our cause.
    Last edited by Judy; 05-18-2018 at 10:11 PM.
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  4. #84
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    jtdc wrote:

    You volunteered the example. And if they can get to the polling place to vote, they can certainly get to the DMV to get photo ID. And, that isn't necessary if they vote by mail. So you "spin" it by only allowing one situation.
    I volunteered my Mom's example to Beezer, not to you, not to MW, but to Beezer to answer her question to me about "who doesn't have a photo ID?" Beezer's smart, she doesn't need more than 1 example to understand the issue.

    Illegal aliens can vote by mail.

    Illegal aliens can vote by absentee ballot.

    Illegal aliens have photo ID.

    So who is it you're really trying to prevent from voting, because it's not illegal aliens? If illegal aliens are registered to vote, they will have voter photo ID and vote on election day or vote my mail or absentee ballot if they don't, and you haven't stopped a thing except denied citizen voters without a photo ID from voting on election day.

    So I just don't see any real benefit of it and see a lot of good Americans not being able to vote on election day because they don't have a photo ID and it's too late to vote absentee.

    The US Supreme Court ruled the voter photo ID in North Carolina where MW's avatar says he lives unconstitutional.

    Showing your photo ID to vote on election day, doesn't prove you're a citizen and eligible to vote, that's done through voter registration, not by voting.
    Last edited by Judy; 05-18-2018 at 10:48 PM.
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  5. #85
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    If they can get to the polling booth, it's because they want to do so and if they do all that it takes to get there, they should be able to vote. You're saying people like this are to be mocked, disrespected, called "crippled little old ladies in wheelchairs", and the source of a big funny day on ALIPAC making fun of "cripples" and "little old ladies". I'm sure that offends many members of ALIPAC and the public interested in our cause.
    So much embellishment.

    We're going in circles here. If they can get to the polling booth, they can get to DPS or DMV to get their "free of charge" voter ID. If you take your wheelchair bound mother to the voting booth, you can take her to get her state issued voter ID.

    No, I don't believe most people are offended by the truth. Folks reading this thread are intelligent enough to comprehend the context in which things are said. They're not going to fall for your hyperbole and embellishment.

    In this thread, you're the only one that supports prisoner's voting and opposes the government issued voter ID.

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  6. #86
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    MW wrote:

    If you take your wheelchair bound mother to the voting booth, you can take her to get her state issued voter ID.
    Why would I do that? She votes absentee ballot since her stroke.

    Last edited by Judy; 05-18-2018 at 10:57 PM.
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  7. #87
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Hey MW, from North Carolina, how's that voter photo ID in NC law working out for you? I hear the US Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional rejecting the state's appeal leaving the Appeals Court decision that it impacted too many voters to be constitutional intact. Is that true? Seems to me, you're the only one running around in circles in violation of the laws of our land.
    Last edited by Judy; 05-18-2018 at 11:09 PM.
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  8. #88
    MW
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    Judy wrote:

    The US Supreme Court ruled the voter photo ID in North Carolina where MW's avatar says he lives unconstitutional.
    Not true! The U.S. Supreme Court did not rule the North Carolina voter photo ID law unconstitutional. The U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the case. It was a federal appeals court that ruled the law unconstitutional, that's after it was first ruled constitutional by a lesser court.

    Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. wrote in a statement that accompanied the court’s one-sentence order. He added that nothing should be read into the court’s decision to decline to hear the case.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/u...-carolina.html

    You need to pay more attention to detail. You do know there are states with photo voter ID laws, don't you? So photo voter ID laws are not in violation of the laws of our land as you say. It would behoove you to do a better job in your research and stop shooting from the hip so much (IMO).
    Last edited by MW; 05-18-2018 at 11:38 PM.

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  9. #89
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Judy wrote:



    Not true! The U.S. Supreme Court did not rule the North Carolina voter photo ID law unconstitutional. The U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the case. It was a federal appeals court that ruled the law unconstitutional, that's after it was first ruled constitutional by a lesser court.



    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/u...-carolina.html

    You need to pay more attention to detail.
    Oh okay, I knew you'd be on top of that one. US Federal Court of Appeals ruled it picked on too many black voters, right?
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  10. #90
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    4th U.S. Circuit judges overturn North Carolina’s voter ID law

    By Anne Blythe
    July 29, 2016 12:41 PM
    Updated July 30, 2016 03:07 PM
    RALEIGH

    Federal appellate judges on Friday struck down a 2013 law limiting voting options and requiring voters to show photo ID at the polls, declaring in an unsparing opinion that the restrictions “target African Americans with almost surgical precision.”

    The three-judge panel of the U.S. 4th Circuit Court of Appeals found that the law was adopted with “discriminatory intent” despite lawmakers’ claims that the ID provision and other changes were designed to prevent voter fraud.

    The ruling — which could have implications for voting laws in other states and possibly for the outcome of close races in the swing state of North Carolina — sent the case back to U.S. District Judge Thomas Schroeder, who in April issued a 485-page decision dismissing all claims in the legal challenge.

    “In holding that the legislature did not enact the challenged provisions with discriminatory intent, the court seems to have missed the forest in carefully surveying the many trees,” the ruling states. “This failure of perspective led the court to ignore critical facts bearing on legislative intent, including the inextricable link between race and politics in North Carolina.”

    The ruling prohibits North Carolina from requiring photo identification from voters in future elections, including the November 2016 general election. It restores a week of early voting and preregistration for 16- and 17-year-olds, and ensures that same-day registration and out-of-precinct voting will remain in effect.

    State Board of Elections officials immediately began to pull back advertising campaigns that had been designed to air on TV, radio and other media in the coming months to educate North Carolina voters about what they would need to cast ballots in the coming election.

    Challengers of the elections law overhaul shepherded through the Republican-led General Assembly in 2013 and signed into law by Gov. Pat McCrory quickly lauded the ruling. Republican leaders criticized the ruling, noting that IDs are required to board airplanes, enter federal courthouses, cash checks and more. They announced their plans to appeal.

    U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch, who leads the U.S. Justice Department that was a party in the lawsuit challenging the law, praised the appellate panel for striking down a law “that the court described in its ruling as ‘one of the largest restrictions of the franchise in modern North Carolina history.’ ” Lynch described the law as one that placed “barriers between citizens and the ballot box.”

    “And it sent a message that contradicted some of the most basic principles of our democracy,” Lynch said in her statement. “The ability of Americans to have a voice in the direction of their country – to have a fair and free opportunity to help write the story of this nation – is fundamental to who we are and who we aspire to be. Going forward, the Department of Justice will continue our work to protect that sacred right for all.”

    Lynch and many others echoed phrases from several lines in the 83-page ruling that bats back contentions by advocates of the law who claimed IDs were needed at the polls to prevent voter fraud.

    “Although the new provisions target African Americans with almost surgical precision, they constitute inapt remedies for the problems assertedly justifying them and, in fact, impose cures for problems that did not exist,” the 4th Circuit judges wrote.

    “This ruling is a stinging rebuke of the state’s attempt to undermine African-American voter participation, which had surged over the last decade,” said Dale Ho, director of the ACLU’s Voting Rights Project. “It is a major victory for North Carolina voters and for voting rights.”

    N.C. Senate leader Phil Berger, a Republican from Rockingham County, and state House Speaker Tim Moore, a Republican from Cleveland County, issued a joint statement questioning the motives of the three-judge panel — Judge Diana Motz, a Bill Clinton appointee, Judge James A. Wynn Jr., a Barack Obama appointee, and Judge Henry F. Floyd, an Obama appointee to the 4th circuit bench but a George W. Bush appointee to the U.S. District bench.

    “Since today’s decision by three partisan Democrats ignores legal precedent, ignores the fact that other federal courts have used North Carolina’s law as a model, and ignores the fact that a majority of other states have similar protections in place, we can only wonder if the intent is to reopen the door for voter fraud, potentially allowing fellow Democrat politicians like Hillary Clinton and Roy Cooper to steal the election. We will obviously be appealing this politically-motivated decision to the Supreme Court,” Berger and Moore said.

    The voter ID law ensures any North Carolina citizen who wants to vote will have that opportunity,” Berger and Moore contended. They pointed to provisions in state law that allow someone without ID to obtain a Division of Motor Vehicles card at no cost as well as offering people who have been unable to obtain one of the six acceptable forms of ID to cast a provisional ballot.

    McCrory, in his statement, accused “three Democratic judges” of “undermining the integrity of our elections while also maligning our state.”

    Other voter ID rulings

    North Carolina’s law is the third with an ID provision courts have rejected in the past two weeks.

    A federal district judge found Wisconsin’s ID law too restrictive. The full 5th U.S. Circuit appeals court found that Texas’s voter ID law violated the Voting Rights Act by making it more difficult for minorities to vote and opened the door for putting the state under federal supervision again.

    “We applaud the appeals court for recognizing the discriminatory intent behind the monster voter suppression law,” Bob Hall, director of Democracy NC, a voting rights organization, said in a statement about the N.C. case. “The ruling makes clear that the North Carolina General Assembly cherry-picked the law to suppress African American and young voters because of the 2008 election. Today’s ruling begins to right that wrong.”

    In North Carolina, the state could ask the full bench of the 4th Circuit to review the ruling. But attorneys and others speculate that even if the full court agreed to review the case, the 2013 election-law changes would not be restored before the November elections.

    “Because of this ruling, North Carolinians will now be able to register and vote free of the obstacles created by the Legislature in 2013,” said Southern Coalition for Social Justice senior attorney Allison Riggs.

    Dallas Woodhouse, executive director of the North Carolina Republican Party, questioned whether the law had been defended well. Though N.C. Attorney General Roy Cooper’s office represented lawmakers in the case, Republican leaders also hired private attorneys.

    “This is an effort to overthrow the will of the people on voter ID and ballot security, and it is led by the Democrats and, we believe, by Roy Cooper, who did a really lackluster job of defending voter ID while at the same time publicly criticizing it,” Woodhouse said Friday afternoon.

    But Cooper’s campaign noted that Cooper, the Democrat running for governor, had advised McCrory in 2013 to veto the bill.

    North Carolinians were not the only ones commenting on the decision Friday. Hillary Clinton, the Democratic candidate for president, tweeted her support for the ruling.

    The Rev. William J. Barber II, fresh off of addressing the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia, admonished lawmakers for changing North Carolina’s election laws that had made the state a “model for the nation in encouraging people to vote.”

    Barber is president of the state NAACP that participated in the legal challenge, and the architect of the Moral Monday movement that has protested the voter ID law and other legislation from the Republican-controlled legislature and governor’s office.

    “Today the 4th Circuit’s decision gives North Carolinians back an electoral system that allows the people of North Carolina to vote freely this fall,” Barber said in a statement.

    In 2015, on the eve of the federal trial over the 2013 law, the legislature softened the ID requirement by adding a provision that allowed voters without acceptable ID to cast a provisional ballot if they could show a “reasonable impediment” to obtaining an ID.

    Though Motz differed from Wynn and Floyd on whether the time was right to weigh the “reasonable impediment” option, Wynn wrote for the majority: “Nothing in this record shows that the reasonable impediment exception ensures that the photo ID law no longer imposes any lingering burden on African American voters.”

    That could be significant for Texas and Wisconsin, where such a softening of the ID requirement was suggested, too, lawyers said.

    “This is a very big win for voting rights plaintiffs and the DOJ,” said Rick Hasen, a law professor at the University of California-Irvine who writes about law and politics on his electionlawblog.org.

    Anne Blythe: 919-836-4948, @AnneBlythe1

    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/new...e92595012.html
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