Thread: Duck boat victims include 9 from one family, ship's driver, tourists

Originally Posted by Beezer

So what Judy and jtdc are saying is when you get on any boat you put a life jacket on and never take it off. Got it.

I don't think so. From Judy's article
Coast Guard raises 'duck boat' from Missouri lake

The Coast Guard requires life jackets on non-canopied boats, but for amphibious tour boats, which are part boat and part bus, recommendations are left up to the captain.

So your sarcastic statement that "when you get on any boat" is wrong!

Add to that

The report also said the crew did not require life jackets to be worn and did not demonstrate how to don one if needed. It added that passengers were not given instructions on what to do if the boat starts to sink.

These people, land-lubbers, didn't have your experience to draw from. And the cruise didn't teach them even the basics.

And from Tia Coleman:

the captain had told us 'don't worry about grabbing the life jackets -- you won't need them' so nobody grabbed them," Coleman told Fox News. "However, in doing that, when it was time to grab them, it was too late and I believe that a lot of people could have been spared."

When the weather hit "it was too late and I believe that a lot of people could have been spared."

Originally Posted by Beezer

jtdc...you EVER seen a Duck boat up close and personal? I have.

No, but I have been on a small boat in the Catalina Channel with high afternoon seas and wind, trying to repair the engine. So I know how difficult it is do do anything when you are being tossed around.

Originally Posted by Beezer

Finding a hammer a waste of time? I saw a Semi truck on FIRE on the opposite side of the freeway, we have steep grades here, their brakes are always smoking, but his cab was on fire underneath it. I called 911 immediately, they were dispatched. I would have broke glass and got that driver out of a burning cab. Break a window in a river with what? Your fist, your angry wit.

That truck wasn't in a river. As for breaking a window in a river, try it. That glass is safety glass. Not easy to break when there is water pushing against it.

Originally Posted by Beezer

Someone try to car jack me...a hammer no use...Ok, I will put a pool noodle in the passenger seat.

So now you are trying to drag in every possible use for a hammer, while skipping the use in an underwater rescue.

Also from Judy's other thread:

The National Transportation Safety Board recommends that passengers not wear life jackets on boats with canopies because when they sink, the life jackets can prevent escape by floating people to the top of the canopy and trapping them underneath.

Why put life-vests on a boat your are not supposed to use them while on?

Originally Posted by Beezer

WHO ARE YOU BLAMING? ME?

Works for me!

Originally Posted by stoptheinvaders

I see you edited this post---a minute ago you said the driver wasn't trained in water and boat safety.

Now we are getting a full fledged conspiracy!

Originally Posted by Judy

i don't think the driver who was licensed to operate the vehicle on land had water or boat safety training to operate the boat on water, because I don't think he has a license to operate the boat on water, which is usually a boat captain's license required to operate commercial boats including sightseeing boats.

You mean a person can't hold both licenses? If I drive a truck and am licensed for that I can't fly a plane or pilot a boat? So a boat captain has to be chauffeured to the docks?

Why put life-vests on a boat your are not supposed to use them while on?

It's a conundrum. A Catch 22. Fortunately there's not many accidents, very rare, last one was 20 years ago. But when there is one, it's bad, really bad.

To avoid this entirely, as soon as you see the storm clouds, you just turn the boat towards land, bee-line it to shore, you're there in less than 60 seconds, get everyone off and wait til the storm passes. The driver had more than ample time and warning to do that if he knew to do that. Apparently he didn't know to do that.

Just so sad.

Originally Posted by Judy

It's a conundrum. A Catch 22. Fortunately there's not many accidents, very rare, last one was 20 years ago. But when there is one, it's bad, really bad.

To avoid this entirely, as soon as you see the storm clouds, you just turn the boat towards land, bee-line it to shore, you're there in less than 60 seconds, get everyone off and wait til the storm passes. The driver had more than ample time and warning to do that if he knew to do that. Apparently he didn't know to do that.

Just so sad.

How do you know he could have got to land in less than 60 seconds?

Originally Posted by jtdc

You mean a person can't hold both licenses? If I drive a truck and am licensed for that I can't fly a plane or pilot a boat? So a boat captain has to be chauffeured to the docks?

One person can definitely hold both licenses. The company probably has it broken down into two separate jobs. There appears to be some confusion on the driver versus the Captain. For days it was reported as 2 separate individuals, now it appears the driver is the captain. I don't know if that's unusual in the industry for some reason or if there is a captain somewhere, I just don't know what the situation is here. Reports first reported the Captain drowned, then reported he didn't drown, he survived, it was the driver who drowned, 2 separate people, 1 who drowned and 1 who survived, now we're down to a driver/captain who drowned, 1 person with both titles. One article I read apparently struggling with what to call Mr. Williams, decided to call him the "boat pilot".

I'm sure they'll figure it all out.

Originally Posted by stoptheinvaders

How do you know he could have got to land in less than 60 seconds?

I've been on that lake many many many times and these storms come out of nowhere all the time, the lake is large but it's narrow, if you're in the main channel, you're no more than 1/4 to 1/2 mile at most to shore. You see on the video if that's the boat that sank, a boat dock right there, land is right there, turn your wheel to the right and bee line in. Very short distance to land on this lake. Waves on a lake are like waves on an ocean, they roll to shore, so you basically just ride them in and it's a motorized boat so, you just speed right in to shore. Takes no time at all. Also, as soon as you're out of the main channel, the winds drop and the waves reduce, because the land and trees are wind breakers.

The driver didn't know to do this, so he's focused on getting the duck boat back to the company dock. Fatal decision.

Kenneth Scott McKee, ‘Captain Scott:’ 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

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• By Ellyn Santiago

• Published Jul 23, 2018 at 8:45pm
• Updated Jul 24, 2018 at 11:04pm

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Kenneth Scott McKee, aka Captain Scott of 'Ride the Ducks'

The captain of the World War II era ‘duck’ tour boat that sank in Table Rock Lake in Branson, Missouri during a storm killing 17 people, including nine from one family, has been named.
Known as ‘Captain Scott,’ Kenneth Scott McKee, 51, survived the tragic sinking of the amphibious vehicle run by Ride The Ducks Branson. The 33-foot craft designed for land and sea could not survive the near-60 knot winds and four-foot seas as it struggled to stay right and afloat.
A survivor said McKee said life jackets were not necessary.
A number of state and federal agencies are investigating the swamping. It’s not yet clear if there will be criminal charges brought and against whom. Ride the Ducks Branson, which offered to pay medical bills for the injured, removed information about McKee from its website.
Here’s what you need to know:

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1. McKee Captained the Boat on the Water, But on Land it Was Driven by Another Employee Who Was One of the 17 Drowned

The swamping of the duck boat in waters that looked more sea than lake claimed the lives of 17 people but nine of them were from one family. McKee was at the helm.
When the boat went down and passengers were in the water, where rolling waves reached heights of four feet, McKee presumably did as well. But he survived the sinking.
McKee was reported to have suffered minor injuries but it’s not clear what they were and if he was treated.

A group of mourners pause for a moment of prayer at Ride The Ducks Tours on July 20, 2018 in Branson, Missouri. Hundreds of mourners stopped by the location to pay their respects to the victims after a duck boat capsized in Table Rock Lake in a thunderstorm on Thursday killing 17.

McKee captained the boat in the lake, but it’s been reported that while the amphibious craft was on land, Bob Williams, a 73-year-old and a former chauffeur was the driver. Williams was listed as one of the dead. He was described in a law enforcement report as a boat passenger.

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2. Known as ‘Captain Scott,’ McKee, a Longtime Mariner, Reportedly Told Passengers Life Jackets Need Not Be Worn During the Ride

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One of the two survivors from the Coleman family of 11 that boarded the boat that day, Tia Coleman told Fox59 news on the phone that McKee said life jackets were unnecessary, “So nobody grabbed them as we listened to the captain as he told us to stay seated.”
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Life jackets hang from duck boat canopy as investigators raise doomed vessel from Missouri lake. @marcusmoore reports. https://abcn.ws/2mAHAYp
6:44 PM - Jul 23, 2018

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A now-deleted profile on McKee on Ride the Ducks Branson website read, according to reports, that he was a Missourian, a longtime boat captain and had been with the duck tour company for nearly 16 years.
Another question is, with his experience, and given the weather forecast, why he would have taken the boat into possibly dangerous conditions.

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3. Investigators Are Hoping the Boat’s Camera Survived Being Underwater as Footage Will Show What Occurred. Ride the Ducks Says it’s Cooperating With Investigators

It’s been reported investigators hope the on-board camera footage has survived. The boat, raised by the Coast Guard Monday, sat in 80 feet of water for several days. It’s not at all certain yet that there will be any viable video.
Authorities are also looking at Ride the Ducks company protocols for inclement weather. The weather forecast included an advisory for a strong thunderstorm for the area, so investigators will surely be questioning McKee and others on how and why the decision was made to set sail.

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4. A Former NTSB Official Says Duck Boats ‘Are Not Seaworthy’ as Touring Crafts & Should be Banned

A Ride The Ducks World War II DUKW boat is seen at Ride The Ducks on July 20, 2018 in Branson, Missouri. Hundreds of mourners stopped by the location to pay their respects to the victims after a duck boat capsized in Table Rock Lake in a thunderstorm .

ABC News reported that former National Transportation Safety Board chair Jim Hall said flat out duck boats should be banned.“The boats are not designed for the type of use that they are being employed for. They’re not seaworthy for this type of use,” Hall told ABC.
“That’s essentially why one of the safest ways to do it is to ban it because you have being brought on these boats children, who are not making informed decisions for themselves and adults bringing them on without adequate warnings.”
In 1999, 13 out of 21 passengers on a duck boat in Hot Springs, Arkansas, were drowned when the craft capsized. The NTSB report found the probable cause of the “uncontrolled flooding and sinking of the Miss Majestic was the failure of Land and Lakes Tours, Inc., to adequately repair and maintain the DUKW. Contributing to the sinking was a flaw in the design of DUKWs as converted for passenger service, that is, the lack of adequate reserve buoyancy that would have allowed the vehicle to remain afloat in a flooded condition. Contributing to the unsafe condition of the Miss Majestic was the lack of adequate oversight by the Coast Guard. Contributing to the high loss of life was a continuous canopy roof that entrapped passengers within the sinking vehicle.”

Boaters are seen on Table Rock Lake on July 20, 2018 in Branson, Missouri. teh day after the swamping of a duck boat where 17 drowned, 9 from one family.

In other words, the boats were not built to be tour boats. DUKW boats were built to ferry soldiers and armaments during World War II. The Branson boat was built in 1944. It was last checked out and passed muster this past winter.
Read More From Heavy
A History of Fatal Duck Boat Crashes

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5. On TripAdvisor, ‘Ride the Ducks of Branson’ is a Popular Attraction & Rated Highly. ‘Captain Scott’ Appears in 17 Reviews & All Are Glowing

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The consensus on the popular travel website TripAdvisor is McKee was knowledgeable, entertaining and his jokes ranged from “not half bad” to “hilarious.” None of the reviewers provided commentary on his skills as a boat captain rather each spoke to his skill as a storyteller. McKee was reviewed as being a good tour guide who knows his material and apparently enjoyed the gig because the reviews go back nearly a decade.
“Captain Scott is awesome. He is hilarious. He made the ride so much fun. When our children (ages 4, 6, 8, 10) drove the duck he talked to them and asked what they wanted to be when they grow up and what kind of car they want. He was also very informative about the origin of the duck (DUKW), as well as other area attractions. It was a wonderful experience, and we will definitely do it again when we are in Branson,” wrote BrandyST of Kansas back in 2011.
A duck boat passenger from Illinois said, My daughter hasn’t stopped talking about Captain Scott. We took our Duck tour the day after we arrived in Branson for our vacation. Captain Scott was absolutely wonderful. There was never a dull moment in our tour. Captain Scott’s sense of humor was infectious. The best part for our 4 year old was driving the Duck when we got into the water. She talked about it nonstop our entire time in Branson. We will definitely be taking the tour again.”
On a TripAdvisor review from 2015, a passenger posted a review of the “Branson Duck Boat With a Storytelling Captain.”
“Taking a ride on a ducw (duck) with Capt Scott was a load of fun. Capt Scott was full of information about the sites in Branson and his jokes weren’t half bad. This trip is a must do when visiting Branson.”

https://heavy.com/news/2018/07/kenneth-scott-mckee-captain-scott/

LOL!! So, it appears there is supposed to be a Captain, who is one person, Kennett Scott McKee, and a driver, who is another person, Robert "Bob" Williams.